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Post by RI Richmark on Apr 25, 2021 23:37:40 GMT -5
And ECW then put this guy none of their name guys know, nobody in management knows, that they have never seen wrestle in any capacity that has walked around being a prick in a match with a guy with a notoriously short fuse.In any other line of work, if someone greenlit a guy starting a dangerous job without checking their references or training, they would be blamed and fired, and rightly so. 'Look, I know we let that guy that walked in off the street that everyone hated start working a forklift, but he said he could do it, and Bob from the mailroom said 'Sure, I know the guy', how were we to know he's lying? It's not like we could check or that people underestimate the dangers of a working environment they have little to no experience in to try and get a foot in the door!' People have broken their necks running the ropes, he was a minor and ECW made no real attempt to check he can do the job safely so they were negligent. They had a duty to check to take care of everyone in that ring so they could be sure he wasn't going to drop people on their necks, but they didn't bother as Heyman didn't give a damn about the wellbeing of his talent. Not that we can count it as experience, but I think I read somewhere he wrestled in carnivals with midgets in what was intended to be comedy matches. Maybe that's why he was able to get the midget wrestler vouch for him. Still not an excuse for things to go down the way it did, but there was a prior backstory to this. I remember him wrestling a match in the New England Wrestling Alliance a few months before this. The NEWA was one of those rinky dink "promotions" that held shows in high school gyms in Rhode Island and southeastern Massachusetts and aired thier shows on RI public access. (If you remember back in the late 90s whenever the WWF came to Providence and they filmed the APA at the Lucky Tap the patrons they always beat up were NEWA wrestlers) So anyway I remember seeing him there. I think he was actually billed as Mass Transit Ralph Kramden which totally would have gotten him sued if Jackie Gleason's estate watched RI public access. I don't remember much about the match just how dumb the gimmick was so when I heard about this incident a few months later I was like "Really? That guy?" Looking back on it now I can imagine why he did what he did. He was a kid with big dreams of being a wrestling star stuck performing in front of maybe 20 people now seeing his chance to break into the big time and would do anything to get there. So yeah I feel some sympathy for him. He shouldn't have lied but that in no way excuses what New Jack did. And Paul Heyman should have known better.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Apr 26, 2021 9:30:33 GMT -5
Complete sympathy. He might have volunteered and lied but laws are there to protect the underaged for this very reason. Everyone involved should have known better and certainly should not have exacerbated the incident.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 26, 2021 9:45:39 GMT -5
Based on what I read on wikipedia I would say the father gets most of the blame, then Heyman, then New Jack-though pains me to say him last. New Jack will cut someone even without their permission so the Eric giving him the OK was just asking for trouble. I would say Heyman a very close second to the father as Heyman should always know better, he is a very shrewd business person and I will always believe a disgusting human being. I can't even see the worst of the worst indy shows (aside from maybe Ian Rotten's) not doing their homework on Eric but even if they did let a kid into a real match I can't see them being OK with it being New Jack.
The father should get all the blame though. Whether anyone in ECW thought Eric was just a kid, ultimately it was his father who was 100% in the know. And from what I read on wikipedia the father yelled, "he's just a kid. Take it easy on him." If you have to yell that then you probably shouldn't have your kid in the position he's in. I'm guessing both the father and kid loved wrestling and unlike many kids who just play wrestle with each other, the father and son took it to the next level.
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hassanchop
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Post by hassanchop on Apr 27, 2021 3:06:18 GMT -5
Hate to bring the topic but what if, what if things worked out well? Like say he behaved, or he did what he was told and the beat down wasn’t as brutal or he takes the beating like a man and doesn’t sue or complain, he just shakes their hands backstage how would things go? I imagine they’d reprimand him for lying about his age, their PPV doesn’t get canceled, but I’m curious to where it would lead to like if they would black list him or send him to more training and tell him to call them in a year or something.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 27, 2021 8:22:50 GMT -5
I can see ECW allowing him to get trained and come back as a regular roster member. I also wouldn't be surprised if Heyman had told the family/kid that if they didn't sue they would give him a roster spot once 18 and they family accepted. They probably would have rather wanted a spot over the money, some fans are so die hard. I'm actually surprised Heyman didn't do that only to go back on his word once he got in writing no suing.
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hassanchop
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Post by hassanchop on Apr 27, 2021 11:01:39 GMT -5
One negative thing if things did work out well, is that when Vince Russo gets talent from ECW to WWE, he sees Mass Transit and recruits him and makes him a raunchier Jackie Gleason and have him feud with Beaver Cleavage, in a morbid battle of 50s sitcom characters.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 11:13:25 GMT -5
Hate to bring the topic but what if, what if things worked out well? Like say he behaved, or he did what he was told and the beat down wasn’t as brutal or he takes the beating like a man and doesn’t sue or complain, he just shakes their hands backstage how would things go? I imagine they’d reprimand him for lying about his age, their PPV doesn’t get canceled, but I’m curious to where it would lead to like if they would black list him or send him to more training and tell him to call them in a year or something. He did say something to his dad like, "I'm ok, Dad! I'm one of the boys." So, who knows how far this would have gone without the law suit?
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El Pollo Guerrera
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Apr 27, 2021 19:11:15 GMT -5
Hate to bring the topic but what if, what if things worked out well? Like say he behaved, or he did what he was told and the beat down wasn’t as brutal or he takes the beating like a man and doesn’t sue or complain, he just shakes their hands backstage how would things go? I imagine they’d reprimand him for lying about his age, their PPV doesn’t get canceled, but I’m curious to where it would lead to like if they would black list him or send him to more training and tell him to call them in a year or something. If his father didn't call from the crowd, the match would have ended, he would have been dragged backstage, bandaged, paid (maybe), and sent on his way. I doubt that anyone would have looked into it unless he or his dad complained, and then Paul would have been covered by the signed paperwork. It does make me wonder how many other underage wannabe wrestlers had 'try-out' matches in ECW... or CZW... or IWA Mid-South...
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 28, 2021 6:01:58 GMT -5
Hate to bring the topic but what if, what if things worked out well? Like say he behaved, or he did what he was told and the beat down wasn’t as brutal or he takes the beating like a man and doesn’t sue or complain, he just shakes their hands backstage how would things go? I imagine they’d reprimand him for lying about his age, their PPV doesn’t get canceled, but I’m curious to where it would lead to like if they would black list him or send him to more training and tell him to call them in a year or something. If his father didn't call from the crowd, the match would have ended, he would have been dragged backstage, bandaged, paid (maybe), and sent on his way. I doubt that anyone would have looked into it unless he or his dad complained, and then Paul would have been covered by the signed paperwork. It does make me wonder how many other underage wannabe wrestlers had 'try-out' matches in ECW... or CZW... or IWA Mid-South... By the time those companies were prominent having and keeping promoters licenses were much more of a pain in the ass for indy companies so highly unlikely unless they were students from their wrestling schools... and even then on indy shows you rarely see guys with no experience booked in those situations... especially with how much of a pain the Tri State area is with regulations.
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Post by mrpeacock on Apr 28, 2021 10:18:04 GMT -5
If his father didn't call from the crowd, the match would have ended, he would have been dragged backstage, bandaged, paid (maybe), and sent on his way. I doubt that anyone would have looked into it unless he or his dad complained, and then Paul would have been covered by the signed paperwork. It does make me wonder how many other underage wannabe wrestlers had 'try-out' matches in ECW... or CZW... or IWA Mid-South... By the time those companies were prominent having and keeping promoters licenses were much more of a pain in the ass for indy companies so highly unlikely unless they were students from their wrestling schools... and even then on indy shows you rarely see guys with no experience booked in those situations... especially with how much of a pain the Tri State area is with regulations. IWA-Mid South had the Mike Levy incident. Where they intentionally booked an untrained guy and put him in a match with Mickie Knuckles in a death match. He did something which lead to her having a knot on her forehead and about 4 guys came out and shoot beat him up. I’d say much worse than Mass Transit.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 28, 2021 10:32:07 GMT -5
I may have missed something but did New Jack intentionally try to severe an artery? Like I know he is a horrible human but the blade situation just seems to have gone wrong. He's such a jerk himself I don't see him being as uptight about Eric being a jerk backstage unless it was done to him personally.
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El Pollo Guerrera
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on May 2, 2021 13:13:51 GMT -5
I may have missed something but did New Jack intentionally try to severe an artery? Like I know he is a horrible human but the blade situation just seems to have gone wrong. He's such a jerk himself I don't see him being as uptight about Eric being a jerk backstage unless it was done to him personally. It depends who you listen to. People who hate New Jack say he either bladed Kulas against his will or intentionally too deep. People who like New Jack say he was asked by Kulas for 'help' getting colour and either slipped because of sweat or Kulas flinched and that caused the blade to go deeper. Then there's a bunch of different stories about something happening in the locker room (Kulas' behaviour, New Jack's drug use, "teaching the new guy a lesson", roughing Kulas up to see if he's tough enough, etc....). Pro wrestling's version of Rashomon...
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malloc
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Post by malloc on May 2, 2021 16:38:40 GMT -5
I blame his Dad more than anybody else. Mass Transit was a kid Paul Heyman is a sleazy business man New Jack is seemingly a sociopath As the parent in that situation your job is to protect your child Anyone else get the feeling that the Dad was probably thinking "this wrestling stuff is all fake whats the worse that could happen?"
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 2, 2021 16:41:20 GMT -5
Hate to bring the topic but what if, what if things worked out well? Like say he behaved, or he did what he was told and the beat down wasn’t as brutal or he takes the beating like a man and doesn’t sue or complain, he just shakes their hands backstage how would things go? I imagine they’d reprimand him for lying about his age, their PPV doesn’t get canceled, but I’m curious to where it would lead to like if they would black list him or send him to more training and tell him to call them in a year or something. I think he gets blacklisted and nobody touches him until XPW two years later where he becomes a tentpole of the company.
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malloc
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Post by malloc on May 2, 2021 17:10:04 GMT -5
I call the twenty-somethings I work with kids because they are still young and act like they know it all when they still have a lot to learn, heck at 37 I still act like I big manchild most of the time. At 17 you think you know everything, the boy thought he was going to play wrestler and be able to handle it and 'hang with the boys'. In his concussed state even thought so hence flipping off the fans and telling his Dad he was one of the boys now, not realising how out of his deep he was. He was a dumb kid, he wasn't even old enough to buy a beer and some psychopath wrestler went overboard because of some locker room slight, dont know if New Jack knew how old he was but nobody deserves to be taken advantage of like that its one of the things I hate most about wrestling when someone does that. If MS was 25 when it happened and lied about his experience it would still be disgusting way to treat a person.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on May 2, 2021 17:29:56 GMT -5
I call the twenty-somethings I work with kids because they are still young and act like they know it all when they still have a lot to learn, heck at 37 I still act like I big manchild most of the time. At 17 you think you know everything, the boy thought he was going to play wrestler and be able to handle it and 'hang with the boys'. In his concussed state even thought so hence flipping off the fans and telling his Dad he was one of the boys now, not realising how out of his deep he was. He was a dumb kid, he wasn't even old enough to buy a beer and some psychopath wrestler went overboard because of some locker room slight, dont know if New Jack knew how old he was but nobody deserves to be taken advantage of like that its one of the things I hate most about wrestling when someone does that. If MS was 25 when it happened and lied about his experience it would still be disgusting way to treat a person. Eh... I'm a bit of of manchild myself. But even at 17, I would have never thought about doing what Kulas did. Not defending New Jack being New Jack, but I don't think the "just a stupid kid" argument holds up.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on May 2, 2021 17:59:06 GMT -5
By the time those companies were prominent having and keeping promoters licenses were much more of a pain in the ass for indy companies so highly unlikely unless they were students from their wrestling schools... and even then on indy shows you rarely see guys with no experience booked in those situations... especially with how much of a pain the Tri State area is with regulations. IWA-Mid South had the Mike Levy incident. Where they intentionally booked an untrained guy and put him in a match with Mickie Knuckles in a death match. He did something which lead to her having a knot on her forehead and about 4 guys came out and shoot beat him up. I’d say much worse than Mass Transit. That was when she was suppose to be signed by TNA and Ian Rotten furious ordered them to beat the crap out of him.
Of course she then blew her chances at the show by tearing her ACL by doing an diving axe handle and Jarrett refused to sign her because Ian owed him money and wouldn't pay.
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Post by mrpeacock on May 2, 2021 18:00:44 GMT -5
IWA-Mid South had the Mike Levy incident. Where they intentionally booked an untrained guy and put him in a match with Mickie Knuckles in a death match. He did something which lead to her having a knot on her forehead and about 4 guys came out and shoot beat him up. I’d say much worse than Mass Transit. That was when she was suppose to be signed by TNA and Ian Rotten furious ordered them to beat the crap out of him.
Of course she then blew her chances at the show by tearing her ACL by doing an diving axe handle and Jarrett refused to sign her because Ian owed him money and wouldn't pay.
Is that different than when she broke her femur? That was around the same time and horrible in itself.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 2, 2021 18:03:38 GMT -5
I call the twenty-somethings I work with kids because they are still young and act like they know it all when they still have a lot to learn, heck at 37 I still act like I big manchild most of the time. At 17 you think you know everything, the boy thought he was going to play wrestler and be able to handle it and 'hang with the boys'. In his concussed state even thought so hence flipping off the fans and telling his Dad he was one of the boys now, not realising how out of his deep he was. He was a dumb kid, he wasn't even old enough to buy a beer and some psychopath wrestler went overboard because of some locker room slight, dont know if New Jack knew how old he was but nobody deserves to be taken advantage of like that its one of the things I hate most about wrestling when someone does that. If MS was 25 when it happened and lied about his experience it would still be disgusting way to treat a person. Eh... I'm a bit of of manchild myself. But even at 17, I would have never thought about doing what Kulas did. Not defending New Jack being New Jack, but I don't think the "just a stupid kid" argument holds up. Based on what, though?
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on May 2, 2021 18:06:44 GMT -5
Eh... I'm a bit of of manchild myself. But even at 17, I would have never thought about doing what Kulas did. Not defending New Jack being New Jack, but I don't think the "just a stupid kid" argument holds up. Based on what, though? At 17, I don't care what your fantasies or dreams are, you should be able to properly calculate safety risks and logic. It's not like he decided to ride his bike without a helmet. Now, perhaps the stupid kid argument does hold up when he approached the guys back stage wanting to call spots. But getting in the ring in the first place? No sir.
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