Would Cody still be over as a face if he 'ran the company?'

[Fake Jesus]

This is a theory I've had for a while: During the first months of AEW, Cody Rhodes seemed to be sort of bound up in a certain idea of the company. He was incredibly over (The match against Dustin helped) and would come out doing these promos about AEW as a company, as a revolution, whatever. He was basically the face of the brand; he was inarguably the top face until Moxley began his run toward his title, and it occurred to me a while ago that around that time, when Cody was molten hot, doing things like destroying the Triple H throne, etc, he was more often than not perceived as being the top guy in AEW, the head booker, whatever you want to call it. During those days (You can easily verify this by going back in the archives), Khan was often seen as a money mark. It seems to me that as new wrestlers came in on an on-screen level, and as awareness of Khan's role in the company increased behind the scenes, Cody's special connection to the fans almost slowly dissipated, with booking mistakes ferrying it along to where we are now, where Cody was legitimately the most over heel on the Grand Slam show.

So, I'm not really positing an alternate timeline where Cody was the President of AEW, I just want to have a thread where we analyze the why of a substantial portion of the fanbase turning on the guy, and that's my contribution to the discussion - Cody was initially a symbol of AEW, of All In, of whatever sort of 'wrestling resistance' a lot of people see AEW as. He now isn't (Although he's still sent out as the guy to do corporate events), and I think as that went away, so did a critical shield that kept a lot of fans with him despite the more ostentatious elements of his presentation.

[Dub H]

I really think that besides to a minority that discusses it ,it doesnt really matter.

I think the biggest issue the the over the top presentation and the awful US GOOD,OTHER PLACE BAD ,he pulled.

(Plus c'mon that f***ing Homelander outfits BEGS to be booed)

[Kalmia]

I don't think it's his position in the company. It's the OTT entrances every time he appears (that nobody else gets), the sheer DRAMA of everything he's involved in, the raa-raa speeches, and how all of his angles just seem to exist in their own bubble that doesn't affect anything else in the company.

[Lizuka #BLM]

I think it was already bubbling under the surface for awhile - look at how venomous the crowd got when he looked like he might win that random ladder match clusterf*** - but nothing about his issues with feeling disconnected from the broader landscape having changed at all is probably causing it to flare up more, and then he just poured gasoline everywhere with that awful Ogogo promo and his subsequent repeated doubling down on it.

[Deleted]

Man...

He's the Triple H of AEW so take that as you will. When I and some others said that last year we meant it, people thought we were bullshitting but it had purpose. A feud with Cody Rhodes is gonna get you some spotlight, your matches are gonna be overbooked and filled to the brim with production, he's gonna cut long as hell promos, he's rarely gonna lose clean if he does lose and beyond that he's going to be seen as "better than you" whether it's with his beautiful wife (who's probably hotter than your girlfriend), his endless riches, his dope gear, his amazingly CAW-like wrestling moves and hell, even his dog's doper than yours. He's just seen as "better" than you in everything he does and that's naturally going to rub people the wrong way. Even tonight man didn't lose clean.

Cody's gotta basically change who "Cody Rhodes" is otherwise this was bound to happen lol. He gotta run with it now.

Hell, I and some others years ago was saying this was going to happen, it's like, yeah you could SEE it happening. NYC tonight just ripped the band-aid off.

[Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite]

It's like he wants to be his Dad SO bad and mimick the booking that made him a legend but

A: He's not Dusty
B: it's not the 1980's anymore. Pubic tastes have changed


Which is a shame since he's great in his own right as a worker and he can be hilarious at times

If he's this overdramatic as a heel that could be gold

[This Player Hating Mothman]

I don't think it's a clearer understanding of how AEW is run that's souring people on Cody. For one, I don't actually remember a lot of belief being seen that Cody was head booker or anything, just that he was in some level of control over his own stuff, which to be fair, a lot of the top names are. Nah, early on, Cody was able to be a symbol for the company and get cheered because what he offered was fresher. His match against Dustin was genuinely incredible and won him a ton of good will from the very beginning of the company, and he carried that momentum on for a while. But since then, his act has tacked on more pieces, more elements, more room for material people are going to have some kind of problem with. He started having weird mini feuds where he went over guys like Pentagon without much reason, and the more he threw at the board, the more he began to give the indication he was starting to go tweener or even leaning into a slowly burning heel turn over time.

But then he just. Didn't. He kept throwing more lavish production onto his over the top entrances, brought out his students in American Nightmare jackets, had these big stories where he came off like kind of a dick, but he just sort of remained Cody. Exposure and escalation are what did him in. His whole melodrama territory throwback stuff was fresh at the start, but it began to wane as the company developed more identity, Cody's stuff felt out of place, and more and more AEW names established themselves. Cody hasn't worn away at his overness because he's no longer seen as the one responsible for AEW happening. Cody has worn away his overness because he's playing the most unlikable kind of shades of gray and his schtick isn't something some people can handle as a static face act for this goddamn long.

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Sept 22, 2021 21:09:54 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

I don't think it's his position in the company. It's the OTT entrances every time he appears (that nobody else gets), the sheer DRAMA of everything he's involved in, the raa-raa speeches, and how all of his angles just seem to exist in their own bubble that doesn't affect anything else in the company.

If he were actually running the company as first thought, all of these aspects would be killing his goodwill anyway. It's contained ego-booking, maybe even justified since the network is clearly behind him, but it's still ego-booking where things work a special way for him. It's to the point where Nightmare Family membership is an albatross because it means being an extra in Cody's feuds - none of them even gets to have a relationship with Cody, they just get knocked down like tenpins until it's his moment.

It is interesting to consider that he probably never would have been over as a face if not for the initial perception that he was the avatar of AEW. His whole act is still a heel act, and he hasn't actually adjusted it in a way that makes him look likable. My friend coming in with no wrestling knowledge is fully confused as to why this is a guy we're supposed to like.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Sept 22, 2021 21:14:58 GMT -5 Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite said:

Pubic tastes have changed

[kingoftheindies]

I mean Cody showed as ROH champ that he can absolutely be a main event player... and I think he has consistently shown that he can be relied on to get fans invested when needed.


I think Cody clearly needs angles that he can focus on story telling. For various reasons that didnt/couldn't happen yet with Black but he has gotten Malakai over.

I think Cody's biggest issue is he sometimes seems to try too hard to capture moments that were similar to things that happened for his dad

[Rican]

I think he still would have lost the support anyway, for all the reasons other people have outlined. The if anything him being the visible president/leader of the company might have made it worse. He got a lot of support early on during the honeymoon phase but I think long run people start to get Triple H and TNA Jeff Jarrett flashbacks and start booing anyway.

[Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite]

Sept 22, 2021 21:18:09 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

Sept 22, 2021 21:14:58 GMT -5 Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite said:

Pubic tastes have changed

Zounds!

I'm not even going to bother correcting that

[Blade]

I think people are overreacting to one New York crowd liking Malakai Black a lot more than him.

People here prognosticated VERY confidently that Cody was going to get booed out of the building against Ogogo and the crowd was solidly on his side instead, like it is at most shows.

Cody could go heel and would probably be good at it, but if he chooses to keep being face then I think he'll continue to be over most of the time for awhile yet. Most people in the US simply are not hostile to over the top patriotism like a large contingent is here. I'm neither American nor patriotic so it's not like Cody's shtick wins points with me, but he gets a very positive reaction from most AEW crowds.

[rnrk supports BLM]

When was it we got the whole video package announcing Brandi's pregnancy? I feel like that was when the "how full of himself can this twat get?" sentiment started to overshadow the praise for his matches.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Another unmentioned aspect I think played a big part in Cody's visibility as The Company Guy was that the Bucks and Omega took a backseat for the first year+ of the company's existence. They were never bit players, but they took themselves right out of title contention very early and in fairly anticlimactic ways. Cody was the up front PR star guy and for a while, and the Elite were so downplayed people were asking why they weren't bigger deals. That power dynamic has shifted a lot since, and it's no longer Cody having all the melodrama while everything else is mostly just wrestlebusiness.

[Deleted]

Sept 22, 2021 21:55:03 GMT -5 rnrk supports BLM said:

When was it we got the whole video package announcing Brandi's pregnancy? I feel like that was when the "how full of himself can this twat get?" sentiment started to overshadow the praise for his matches.

It's stuff like that which has most people more annoyed than the overt Americana imagery, I think. I got flamed for acknowledging it here a couple years ago, but Cody/Brandi bragging about firing a working man pyrotechnician when they decided to drag Pharaoh on-stage was a huge red flag. Cody's bubble/spot on the midcard is also so insulated/disconnected from most other midcard/main event wrestlers it sometimes feels like another show.

[smokinvokoun86]

I love the guy, and I’ll always say comparisons to Jarrett and Triple H are ridiculous.

However, even I have to admit that he is probably the stalest act in AEW right now. He’s done a hell of a job making Malaki Black into a big time player. But I hate that I have to leave the board for a while, because if he wins a match, everyone gets pissed. And that’s not fans fault, he has become really stale, even for me; because I couldn’t bare for him to win. Thankfully he did lose. And hopefully he can transition to something that sparks a heel turn, because that’s the only way he can get out this rut, IMO.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Cody needs difference. Malakai literally called him out on it on the Road To that he's just stuck in the same place.

Tonight felt like everything crumbling around him. Arn couldn't help him... Brandi couldn't help him. He couldn't finish Malakai off with his kill moves. He lost again.

And even worse? He lost the crowd. 20K people booing the ever loving shit out of him on his grand return. I think seeds are being planted for a change here. It just feels like it's gonna happen whether Cody wants it to or not.

[chrom]

Something was off with Cody tonight, not sure if it was ring rust or he didn't expect to get booed

[Lizuka #BLM]

Honestly I doubt anything substantial's going to change with Cody because everyone thought that was going to happen when he was getting progressively more cocky as TNT Champion and it wound up amounting to absolutely nothing.