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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 21, 2021 16:02:52 GMT -5
Marc Mero was never any good.
He was a big get for the WWE at the time, so much so they broke their pay structure to get him. He was rapidly improving in WCW, was a heck of an athlete and didn't seem to have a mountain of personal problems bubbling away behind the scenes, unlike a lot of the WWF and WCW rosters at the time. He struggled to find himself and had the misfortune of getting hurt at a bad time, and the horndogs in booking deciding his untalented wife should be the star and never recovered. Mick Foley didn't care for him, and he was one of the few to speak out about wrestling's massive death toll when eddie and benoit died, so he's persona non grata with wrestlers and that seeped into the IWC 's opinion of the guy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 16:15:50 GMT -5
What claims have you heard on these or other smarks forums that were taken out of context and made worse than they really were? The Wig Segment Killing Goldberg's WWE Run - While Goldberg's one year WWE tenure has had mixed reviews, I feel it was looked at more poorly by some sections of the IWC more than it really was. On the April 14th, 2003 episode of RAW, the fighting Hebrew was paid of visit by his self-proclaimed cousin GOLDust(get it). In that segment, the bizarre one gave him a gift, a matching blonde wig that he's known for. He even put it on his head. While appreciative, the Hall of Famer rejected it and told him never to put it on his head again. When I was reading the headlines at the time, I believe a journalist wrote about how bad it was and he(Goldberg) was bitching about it backstage, like he was forced to do it. While I admit it might've been a lame attempt at comedy, it was nothing more than a throwaway segment. It's not like they started teaming together, or worse, was given a makeover and had to wear that thing every time, THAT would've been bad. If anything, he was given programs(and victories) over big names such as The Rock, Chris Jericho, Triple H, and finally Brock Lesnar, along with a three month WHC reign. Could his run have been booked better? Arguably, but he was only going to be around for one year, so they made the best of what they could in what little time he was going to be there. That's all I have for now, anything you can think of? I was coming in here to post this. The crowd was still hot as hell for Goldberg at SummerSlam that year, when he was murdering dudes in the Chamber.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Dec 21, 2021 16:18:44 GMT -5
Vince accelerated ending the territories. There was no way they were going to last, unfortunately. and as stated earlier it's foolish to think the other territories wouldn't have done the same thing if they were able too (and several of them tried and failed) The Von Erich kids wanted to do it, but Fritz wouldn't let them. I'm sure, with the "Von Erich curse" it would've crashed and burned... but they had a TON of momentum.
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Post by Andee9001 on Dec 21, 2021 16:22:47 GMT -5
Marc Mero was never any good. He was a big get for the WWE at the time, so much so they broke their pay structure to get him. He was rapidly improving in WCW, was a heck of an athlete and didn't seem to have a mountain of personal problems bubbling away behind the scenes, unlike a lot of the WWF and WCW rosters at the time. He struggled to find himself and had the misfortune of getting hurt at a bad time, and the horndogs in booking deciding his untalented wife should be the star and never recovered. Mick Foley didn't care for him, and he was one of the few to speak out about wrestling's massive death toll when eddie and benoit died, so he's persona non grata with wrestlers and that seeped into the IWC 's opinion of the guy. I think listening to a few podcasts that covered the New Gen era WWF and WCW opened my eyes to how good he actually was. Guy was really solid as Johnny B Badd.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Dec 21, 2021 17:58:22 GMT -5
The wig segment didn't singlehandedly kill Goldberg but it was absolutely a canary in a coal mine that WWE didn't really know what they were doing or what they had with him.
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Post by SkullTrauma on Dec 21, 2021 18:34:45 GMT -5
Marc Mero was never any good. He was a big get for the WWE at the time, so much so they broke their pay structure to get him. He was rapidly improving in WCW, was a heck of an athlete and didn't seem to have a mountain of personal problems bubbling away behind the scenes, unlike a lot of the WWF and WCW rosters at the time. He struggled to find himself and had the misfortune of getting hurt at a bad time, and the horndogs in booking deciding his untalented wife should be the star and never recovered. Mick Foley didn't care for him, and he was one of the few to speak out about wrestling's massive death toll when eddie and benoit died, so he's persona non grata with wrestlers and that seeped into the IWC 's opinion of the guy. Mero f***ing ruled until he got hurt.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Dec 21, 2021 18:37:22 GMT -5
Marc Mero was never any good. He was a big get for the WWE at the time, so much so they broke their pay structure to get him. He was rapidly improving in WCW, was a heck of an athlete and didn't seem to have a mountain of personal problems bubbling away behind the scenes, unlike a lot of the WWF and WCW rosters at the time. He struggled to find himself and had the misfortune of getting hurt at a bad time, and the horndogs in booking deciding his untalented wife should be the star and never recovered. Mick Foley didn't care for him, and he was one of the few to speak out about wrestling's massive death toll when eddie and benoit died, so he's persona non grata with wrestlers and that seeped into the IWC 's opinion of the guy. As "Wildman" in 96 and early 97 he was over AF. People seem to forget that.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 21, 2021 18:52:33 GMT -5
Marc Mero was never any good. He was a big get for the WWE at the time, so much so they broke their pay structure to get him. He was rapidly improving in WCW, was a heck of an athlete and didn't seem to have a mountain of personal problems bubbling away behind the scenes, unlike a lot of the WWF and WCW rosters at the time. He struggled to find himself and had the misfortune of getting hurt at a bad time, and the horndogs in booking deciding his untalented wife should be the star and never recovered. Mick Foley didn't care for him, and he was one of the few to speak out about wrestling's massive death toll when eddie and benoit died, so he's persona non grata with wrestlers and that seeped into the IWC 's opinion of the guy. As "Wildman" in 96 and early 97 he was over AF. People seem to forget that. Oh absolutely. Having Sable rise out of the stratosphere and his style forced to change because of inury (and in the time he was gone, the company changed so much that 10 years may as well have passed) , he never stood a chance.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 21, 2021 19:04:36 GMT -5
The Lex Express failed. If failing means that Lex didn't fill Hulk Hogan's shoes, I guess it failed, but considering the fact that he went from one of the most hyped heels to the #2 babyface in a couple of months based on little more than bodyslamming Yokozuna, a music video, and some vignettes of riding around in a bus, I'd say the Lex Express worked pretty well. What killed Lex as a main eventer was Vince thinking he could stretch it to mania... after already booking the "If you don't win the title that's it" stipulation for Summerslam... and then having Lex celebrate like he won the title after winning via Count Out... it made him look like an idiot. Yeah, that ending killed Luger. Even so, I don’t think he had that much of an upside anyway. He was fine, where to go once he had the title? The Borga feud fizzled out when Borga got hurt and left. That leaves Crush maybe? And that would have been hard on the eyes. Taker and Yoko probably still get paired. So it leaves Luger like Warrior, champion with no one to face.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Dec 21, 2021 19:23:52 GMT -5
Marc Mero was never any good. He was a big get for the WWE at the time, so much so they broke their pay structure to get him. He was rapidly improving in WCW, was a heck of an athlete and didn't seem to have a mountain of personal problems bubbling away behind the scenes, unlike a lot of the WWF and WCW rosters at the time. He struggled to find himself and had the misfortune of getting hurt at a bad time, and the horndogs in booking deciding his untalented wife should be the star and never recovered. Mick Foley didn't care for him, and he was one of the few to speak out about wrestling's massive death toll when eddie and benoit died, so he's persona non grata with wrestlers and that seeped into the IWC 's opinion of the guy. As "Wildman" in 96 and early 97 he was over AF. People seem to forget that. One thing about his comeback and gimmick change though: talk about a slapping heel theme.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Dec 21, 2021 19:41:00 GMT -5
That Vince killed the territories. Most of them were already dead, or dying when the expansion was happening. And to expand on this, he wasn't the first to expand outside of his promotion's historic territory/"go national", by the early eighties Gagne, Barnett and Crockett were all promoting outside of their respective areas and obviously Georgia and Southwest Championship Wrestling were on national television before the WWF. It's incredible really how much traction that bullshit narrative has gained presumably off the back of a few arse-kissing DVD/Network documentaries.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 21, 2021 19:56:05 GMT -5
That Vince killed the territories. Most of them were already dead, or dying when the expansion was happening. He did his best to kill the AWA as that was the one territory that came close to having the market he did. But yeah most were still clinging to old ways of doing business that no longer worked in the new media landscape. Vince was simply the one in the best position to take advantage. He ripped the guts out of the AWA like a mortal kombat fatality, and the corpse staggered on for a few years before collapsing. It's funny, Bischoff was there through that, around to witness the present and future of the company leaving for greener pastures, and when he used the exact same strategies against Vince, the WWF cried foul. If he hadn't disembowelled the AWA so thoroughly, the early to mid 90s might not have been so hard on Vince, they would have had a pipeline for better talent than Memphis and SMW were able to produce.
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Post by fg on Dec 21, 2021 20:00:36 GMT -5
The Lex Express failed. If failing means that Lex didn't fill Hulk Hogan's shoes, I guess it failed, but considering the fact that he went from one of the most hyped heels to the #2 babyface in a couple of months based on little more than bodyslamming Yokozuna, a music video, and some vignettes of riding around in a bus, I'd say the Lex Express worked pretty well. What killed Lex as a main eventer was Vince thinking he could stretch it to mania... after already booking the "If you don't win the title that's it" stipulation for Summerslam... and then having Lex celebrate like he won the title after winning via Count Out... it made him look like an idiot. People also seem to think that nobody cared about Lex at all during his face run. He got cheers but the people liked other faces more. It didn’t help that he had 1/10th of the charisma that Hulk had,
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 21, 2021 20:03:56 GMT -5
Marc Mero was never any good. He was a big get for the WWE at the time, so much so they broke their pay structure to get him. He was rapidly improving in WCW, was a heck of an athlete and didn't seem to have a mountain of personal problems bubbling away behind the scenes, unlike a lot of the WWF and WCW rosters at the time. He struggled to find himself and had the misfortune of getting hurt at a bad time, and the horndogs in booking deciding his untalented wife should be the star and never recovered. Mick Foley didn't care for him, and he was one of the few to speak out about wrestling's massive death toll when eddie and benoit died, so he's persona non grata with wrestlers and that seeped into the IWC 's opinion of the guy. As "Wildman" in 96 and early 97 he was over AF. People seem to forget that. I think over AF is a biiiiig stretch. Maybe somewhat over, but looking at the roster at the time, there were plenty of guys(such as a rising "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Ahmed Johnson, Sid) that fans would choose before Mero. They were trying to make him and Sable the 90s version of Macho Man and Miss Elizabeth, but the difference is, Randy Savage WAS over on his own. Elizabeth didn't overshadow him, if anything, she added to him. Whatever overness Mero had was eclipsed by his smoking hot wife that they ended up GIVING HER A PUSH, even though she was not a trained wrestler. I will admit though, Mero did have talent and did played the jealous husband well, but his obnoxious heel character was all in reaction to his wifes overness, who he eventually took a backseat to, and then eventually Miss Jackie who he brought in to feud with her. That said, he could've had a career resurgence in 98 with either being Vince McMahon's hired gun(same spot Dude Love was in) against Austin, or even brought back into the IC title picture later in the year(have him win the tournament Ken Shamrock won) instead of simply fizzling out, assuming those injuries didn't take it's toll on him.
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Post by fg on Dec 21, 2021 20:04:20 GMT -5
What claims have you heard on these or other smarks forums that were taken out of context and made worse than they really were? The Wig Segment Killing Goldberg's WWE Run - While Goldberg's one year WWE tenure has had mixed reviews, I feel it was looked at more poorly by some sections of the IWC more than it really was. On the April 14th, 2003 episode of RAW, the fighting Hebrew was paid of visit by his self-proclaimed cousin GOLDust(get it). In that segment, the bizarre one gave him a gift, a matching blonde wig that he's known for. He even put it on his head. While appreciative, the Hall of Famer rejected it and told him never to put it on his head again. When I was reading the headlines at the time, I believe a journalist wrote about how bad it was and he(Goldberg) was bitching about it backstage, like he was forced to do it. While I admit it might've been a lame attempt at comedy, it was nothing more than a throwaway segment. It's not like they started teaming together, or worse, was given a makeover and had to wear that thing every time, THAT would've been bad. If anything, he was given programs(and victories) over big names such as The Rock, Chris Jericho, Triple H, and finally Brock Lesnar, along with a three month WHC reign. Could his run have been booked better? Arguably, but he was only going to be around for one year, so they made the best of what they could in what little time he was going to be there. That's all I have for now, anything you can think of? I was coming in here to post this. The crowd was still hot as hell for Goldberg at SummerSlam that year, when he was murdering dudes in the Chamber. I was watching the event this year with friends who were the definition of causal fans. They LOVED it when Goldberg was destroying everybody in the chamber. They thought he was cool.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Dec 21, 2021 20:07:09 GMT -5
I've felt like the "DIE ROCKY DIE" story (when he was still Rocky the blue chipper) has been grossly over exaggerated almost to the level of "And then DX showed up with a Tank and killed WCW"
In my opinion, a lot of people just didn't care about the dude. He didn't connect at all with the audience. There might have been a small handful of people that actively hated him and had a couple signs, but the vast overall fan reaction to him was "whatever he's lame". Much more "piss break dude" than "we actively hate this dude" heat.
Although now that I've said it, it's probably more the WWE blowing it out of proportion rather than the IWC doing it.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Dec 21, 2021 20:20:15 GMT -5
just to add i've been watching WWF TV from 83 and 84 and Vince might aswell have been actively saying "f*** the AWA" on air at points, it's that blatant. By the time they got to Minneapolis in '84 the card is basically an elite AWA show and they've got Hogan outside the building declaring himself the real world champion, for the people, from MSG to you etc.
He definitely didn't kill the territories but some he absolutely knew he could. AWA definitely. St Louis too.
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Dec 21, 2021 20:28:22 GMT -5
What killed Lex as a main eventer was Vince thinking he could stretch it to mania... after already booking the "If you don't win the title that's it" stipulation for Summerslam... and then having Lex celebrate like he won the title after winning via Count Out... it made him look like an idiot. People also seem to think that nobody cared about Lex at all during his face run. He got cheers but the people liked other faces more. It didn’t help that he had 1/10th of the charisma that Hulk had, Therein was the problem: they literally tried to make him Hulk Hogan, and assume the USA gimmick on its own would make the fans accept him as such. He didn’t have the intangibles that made Hogan the biggest name in wrestling for a decade.
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ERON
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Post by ERON on Dec 21, 2021 20:41:54 GMT -5
The Dragon's true identity was forgotten when he returned in 1991. Sure, the nickname and fire breathing persona were the rule not the exception...but references were made to Steamboat's previous WWF stay from time to time. They even called him Steamboat on occasion. His Hasbro figure's "autograph" even is "The Dragon Ricky Steamboat," IIRC. The perception probably stems from people like me who were new fans at the time and were unaware of Steamboat's previous run. Yeah, they made references to his prior accomplishments on occasion, but those references were so few and far between that they mostly went over my head. It wasn't until he returned to WCW later that year and was treated like a returning legend that I realized what a big deal he was.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 21, 2021 21:16:14 GMT -5
The Lex Express failed. If failing means that Lex didn't fill Hulk Hogan's shoes, I guess it failed, but considering the fact that he went from one of the most hyped heels to the #2 babyface in a couple of months based on little more than bodyslamming Yokozuna, a music video, and some vignettes of riding around in a bus, I'd say the Lex Express worked pretty well. What killed Lex as a main eventer was Vince thinking he could stretch it to mania... after already booking the "If you don't win the title that's it" stipulation for Summerslam... and then having Lex celebrate like he won the title after winning via Count Out... it made him look like an idiot. This, and that he and Yokozuna had absolute negative chemistry. Being married to each other from Summer '93 through Mania I think really clouded their legacies with WWF fans. One of the best parts of the post-Network era is fans now getting to see so much more of Lex and Yoko's work, realizing how great they truly were when paired with absolutely anyone other than each other.
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