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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 6:58:50 GMT -5
No, I do *not* want that conversation anymore. It’s dumb. Is this that “oh no, superheroes promote war! They’re too much of a power fantasy!” junk? Is that it? Do you mean those goofballs? No, I’m done acknowledging that stupid take. The superhero genre is harmless, period. That’s…not what the discussion would be about, no. Just more about the reasons society has always been bad for people and instead of getting productive change made from the people who can do it, people blame pop culture as a cop out. People not watching the superhero genre isn’t going to suddenly get Twitter to ban Nazis, for example. That’s all. |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 4, 2022 7:09:20 GMT -5
No, I do *not* want that conversation anymore. It’s dumb. Is this that “oh no, superheroes promote war! They’re too much of a power fantasy!” junk? Is that it? Do you mean those goofballs? No, I’m done acknowledging that stupid take. The superhero genre is harmless, period. That’s…not what the discussion would be about, no. Just more about the reasons society has always been bad for people and instead of getting productive change made from the people who can do it, people blame pop culture as a cop out. People not watching the superhero genre isn’t going to suddenly get Twitter to ban Nazis, for example. That’s all. Oh, thank god. That other one makes my head hurt. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 4, 2022 9:55:43 GMT -5
Nightmare Alley is still in theaters I think, noir horror/crime movie&is good. Y'all should see it. Guillermo del Toro, Willem Dafoe, Bradley Cooper, Cate Blanchett--good stuff.
Not a superhero in sight.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 4, 2022 9:58:27 GMT -5
That’s…not what the discussion would be about, no. Just more about the reasons society has always been bad for people and instead of getting productive change made from the people who can do it, people blame pop culture as a cop out. People not watching the superhero genre isn’t going to suddenly get Twitter to ban Nazis, for example. That’s all. Oh, thank god. That other one makes my head hurt. Well it was a little of that yeah. Presenting authority figures as virtuous just as given because they're authority figures IS bad and is kind of baked into some MCU movies and especially something like Transformers. But again that's a larger convo. |
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Post by xCompackx on Feb 4, 2022 10:00:50 GMT -5
I just feel like overall, if the complaint some of these directors have is about superhero movies somehow degrading the quality pool of cinema, like, make something to compete with them. There's good movies out there without superheroes.
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 10:02:32 GMT -5
Nightmare Alley is still in theaters I think, noir horror/crime movie&is good. Y'all should see it. Guillermo del Toro, Willem Dafoe, Bradley Cooper, Cate Blanchett--good stuff. Not a superhero in sight. Still weird Disney decided to launch that the same day as No Way Home in America considering…look at that cast, that’s actual star power there. Directed by an acclaimed director. Over here it came out in January and was promoted all over the place which…yeah, that’s what should have happened. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 4, 2022 10:05:42 GMT -5
Yeah Dafoe had two movies out the exact same day.
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 10:11:29 GMT -5
Yeah Dafoe had two movies out the exact same day. Exactly. Like…what happened there? |
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Post by lucas_lee on Feb 4, 2022 10:11:30 GMT -5
I think he's right. I have ZERO interest in MCU, DC or Star Wars but that is all people I know talk about when it comes to movies. Those franchises push out smaller films that otherwise would have gotten made. I went and saw Ghostbusters. I’ll probably go see Bob Burgers. After that, I suspect the next movie will be Jurassic World and then….I’ll probably never go to the movies again because I don’t think there’s a single one I have any interest in seeing. I can’t f***ing wait until this superhero fad finally dies. I enjoy them speak for yourself. I like high art cinema and CBM. Theres room for both and there's no need for gatekeeping on both sides |
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 4, 2022 10:20:23 GMT -5
Like most things in this country its capitalism. The studios keep merging and buying each other out becoming bigger and bigger. The bigger they get the bigger their movies have to be to sustain them. So they only want guaranteed huge successes. That means franchises and remakes. Every time we have this thread or it gets talked about elsewhere on the internet it turns into people standing up to defend superhero movies, when it's honestly not expressly about superhero movies; it's about the trends in major studio filmmaking, which have increasingly led us into an artistic and eventual commercial dead end where the only things that matter are IPs that can be branded, rebranded, sequelized, remade, rebooted, soft-rebooted, soft-sea-booted, or otherwise churned out as "content", the very thing so many of us are furious at WWE for becoming. But it's not specifically Iron Man's fault this is happening, just like how it isn't specifically Halo's or Call of Duty's fault that AAA video game companies are doing the exact same thing: it's the fact that we've allowed so much market consolidation, so many mergers, so much monopolization, that none of these corporate mega-entities are satisfied with consistently churning out films that make profits, nor even with making films that can make $100 million, but instead we've pretty much now hit the "$1 billion or bust" era and it's @#$%ing destroying cinema. It sucks and I hate it. I'll just repeat what I've said before on this topic: today, you'd never, ever get Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, Robocop, Terminator, or Predator greenlit. You'd never get any of Don Bluth's animated films, nor Who Framed Roger Rabbit. You wouldn't even get The Godfather or Jaws, which were based on highly successful novels, at least not with the level of detail or care they were given or the freedom Coppola and Spielberg were given to work with. And forget basically any of the output of the 60s cinema movement into the early 70s, all of that is dead or given a barebones budget and small-scale indie style release schedule, or otherwise buried on a streaming service and never heard from (Easy Rider, Bonnie and Clyde, Chinatown, etc.). You wouldn't even get mid-budget comedies like the ones that were so popular into the 1990s, like Wayne's World or Ace Ventura. Why? Because Star Wars cost too much money and would not be a guaranteed $1 billion earner. Because the older stuff is "too slow" and human drama-based and you can't sell merch of it. Because Bluth and Disney used to take chances, but today you have to "follow the formula" (Dreamworks faces and end-of-movie dance parties for everyone!). Because Indiana Jones required too many practical effects and wasn't a pre-established franchise. Because Robocop's social commentary was not subtle nor friendly towards the status quo. Because comedies don't make enough money unless they're made on a shoestring budget (I'm definitely going to see Jackass Forever, but that's why they'll get a wide release). Because Back to the Future has a kid who time travels and inadvertently makes out with his mom but only really clicks with a fully orchestrated Alan Silvestri score. None of this means superhero movies are bad. But since they're the style that now offers the greatest guarantee of a mega box office return, that's pretty much all we get in terms of major releases, and everything else is throttled. I get that Roland Emmerich makes a lot of shitty movies, and for God's sake the less said about Stonewall and its butchering of such important history the better, but cinema is dying a death. So yeah, I'll just share this video again because it's been one of the best summaries of the issue for me, and thankfully the creator of it doesn't come off as annoyed and rambly as I've been here. In a healthy environment, we'd have superhero movies/IP-driven franchises and everything else. We don't anymore. That's the problem. Oh, thank god. That other one makes my head hurt. Well it was a little of that yeah. Presenting authority figures as virtuous just as given because they're authority figures IS bad and is kind of baked into some MCU movies and especially something like Transformers. But again that's a larger convo. I've got major problems with that side of things, too, but yeah, it's not exclusive to superhero content. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 4, 2022 10:54:09 GMT -5
I dunno that original IP stuff wouldn't get made at all, it's just gonna be way more likely to be a show and on streaming now.
Part of it is absolutely capitalism&part is just how people watch stuff has changed.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 4, 2022 11:04:02 GMT -5
Like most things in this country its capitalism. The studios keep merging and buying each other out becoming bigger and bigger. The bigger they get the bigger their movies have to be to sustain them. So they only want guaranteed huge successes. That means franchises and remakes. Every time we have this thread or it gets talked about elsewhere on the internet it turns into people standing up to defend superhero movies, when it's honestly not expressly about superhero movies; it's about the trends in major studio filmmaking, which have increasingly led us into an artistic and eventual commercial dead end where the only things that matter are IPs that can be branded, rebranded, sequelized, remade, rebooted, soft-rebooted, soft-sea-booted, or otherwise churned out as "content", the very thing so many of us are furious at WWE for becoming. But it's not specifically Iron Man's fault this is happening, just like how it isn't specifically Halo's or Call of Duty's fault that AAA video game companies are doing the exact same thing: it's the fact that we've allowed so much market consolidation, so many mergers, so much monopolization, that none of these corporate mega-entities are satisfied with consistently churning out films that make profits, nor even with making films that can make $100 million, but instead we've pretty much now hit the "$1 billion or bust" era and it's @#$%ing destroying cinema. It sucks and I hate it. I'll just repeat what I've said before on this topic: today, you'd never, ever get Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, Robocop, Terminator, or Predator greenlit. You'd never get any of Don Bluth's animated films, nor Who Framed Roger Rabbit. You wouldn't even get The Godfather or Jaws, which were based on highly successful novels, at least not with the level of detail or care they were given or the freedom Coppola and Spielberg were given to work with. And forget basically any of the output of the 60s cinema movement into the early 70s, all of that is dead or given a barebones budget and small-scale indie style release schedule, or otherwise buried on a streaming service and never heard from (Easy Rider, Bonnie and Clyde, Chinatown, etc.). You wouldn't even get mid-budget comedies like the ones that were so popular into the 1990s, like Wayne's World or Ace Ventura. Why? Because Star Wars cost too much money and would not be a guaranteed $1 billion earner. Because the older stuff is "too slow" and human drama-based and you can't sell merch of it. Because Bluth and Disney used to take chances, but today you have to "follow the formula" (Dreamworks faces and end-of-movie dance parties for everyone!). Because Indiana Jones required too many practical effects and wasn't a pre-established franchise. Because Robocop's social commentary was not subtle nor friendly towards the status quo. Because comedies don't make enough money unless they're made on a shoestring budget (I'm definitely going to see Jackass Forever, but that's why they'll get a wide release). Because Back to the Future has a kid who time travels and inadvertently makes out with his mom but only really clicks with a fully orchestrated Alan Silvestri score. None of this means superhero movies are bad. But since they're the style that now offers the greatest guarantee of a mega box office return, that's pretty much all we get in terms of major releases, and everything else is throttled. I get that Roland Emmerich makes a lot of shitty movies, and for God's sake the less said about Stonewall and its butchering of such important history the better, but cinema is dying a death. So yeah, I'll just share this video again because it's been one of the best summaries of the issue for me, and thankfully the creator of it doesn't come off as annoyed and rambly as I've been here. In a healthy environment, we'd have superhero movies/IP-driven franchises and everything else. We don't anymore. That's the problem. Well it was a little of that yeah. Presenting authority figures as virtuous just as given because they're authority figures IS bad and is kind of baked into some MCU movies and especially something like Transformers. But again that's a larger convo. I've got major problems with that side of things, too, but yeah, it's not exclusive to superhero content. And I have some deep personal reasons as to why I’m not as bothered by it like you guys are. But I won’t go into it beyond that. |
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Feb 4, 2022 11:48:42 GMT -5
Emmerich just hates the earth for some reason, he's always trying to destroy it.
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Post by Welfare Willis on Feb 4, 2022 12:00:15 GMT -5
Like most things in this country its capitalism. The studios keep merging and buying each other out becoming bigger and bigger. The bigger they get the bigger their movies have to be to sustain them. So they only want guaranteed huge successes. That means franchises and remakes. Every time we have this thread or it gets talked about elsewhere on the internet it turns into people standing up to defend superhero movies, when it's honestly not expressly about superhero movies; it's about the trends in major studio filmmaking, which have increasingly led us into an artistic and eventual commercial dead end where the only things that matter are IPs that can be branded, rebranded, sequelized, remade, rebooted, soft-rebooted, soft-sea-booted, or otherwise churned out as "content", the very thing so many of us are furious at WWE for becoming. But it's not specifically Iron Man's fault this is happening, just like how it isn't specifically Halo's or Call of Duty's fault that AAA video game companies are doing the exact same thing: it's the fact that we've allowed so much market consolidation, so many mergers, so much monopolization, that none of these corporate mega-entities are satisfied with consistently churning out films that make profits, nor even with making films that can make $100 million, but instead we've pretty much now hit the "$1 billion or bust" era and it's @#$%ing destroying cinema. It sucks and I hate it. I'll just repeat what I've said before on this topic: today, you'd never, ever get Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, Robocop, Terminator, or Predator greenlit. You'd never get any of Don Bluth's animated films, nor Who Framed Roger Rabbit. You wouldn't even get The Godfather or Jaws, which were based on highly successful novels, at least not with the level of detail or care they were given or the freedom Coppola and Spielberg were given to work with. And forget basically any of the output of the 60s cinema movement into the early 70s, all of that is dead or given a barebones budget and small-scale indie style release schedule, or otherwise buried on a streaming service and never heard from (Easy Rider, Bonnie and Clyde, Chinatown, etc.). You wouldn't even get mid-budget comedies like the ones that were so popular into the 1990s, like Wayne's World or Ace Ventura. Why? Because Star Wars cost too much money and would not be a guaranteed $1 billion earner. Because the older stuff is "too slow" and human drama-based and you can't sell merch of it. Because Bluth and Disney used to take chances, but today you have to "follow the formula" (Dreamworks faces and end-of-movie dance parties for everyone!). Because Indiana Jones required too many practical effects and wasn't a pre-established franchise. Because Robocop's social commentary was not subtle nor friendly towards the status quo. Because comedies don't make enough money unless they're made on a shoestring budget (I'm definitely going to see Jackass Forever, but that's why they'll get a wide release). Because Back to the Future has a kid who time travels and inadvertently makes out with his mom but only really clicks with a fully orchestrated Alan Silvestri score. None of this means superhero movies are bad. But since they're the style that now offers the greatest guarantee of a mega box office return, that's pretty much all we get in terms of major releases, and everything else is throttled. I get that Roland Emmerich makes a lot of shitty movies, and for God's sake the less said about Stonewall and its butchering of such important history the better, but cinema is dying a death. So yeah, I'll just share this video again because it's been one of the best summaries of the issue for me, and thankfully the creator of it doesn't come off as annoyed and rambly as I've been here. In a healthy environment, we'd have superhero movies/IP-driven franchises and everything else. We don't anymore. That's the problem. Well it was a little of that yeah. Presenting authority figures as virtuous just as given because they're authority figures IS bad and is kind of baked into some MCU movies and especially something like Transformers. But again that's a larger convo. I've got major problems with that side of things, too, but yeah, it's not exclusive to superhero content. Great point. There's no longer a market for a mid budget film that takes a risk. It's either super cheap like the A24's or Blumhouse models or big blockbusters. |
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Feb 4, 2022 13:57:07 GMT -5
A reminder, this man is about to release a movie where the moon turns evil and is trying to kill the Earth. I’ve never heard of this movie until this post, but just this one sentence synopsis has me more interested than I have been in any marvel or Star Wars movie for some time lol. |
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 14:00:52 GMT -5
Great point. There's no longer a market for a mid budget film that takes a risk. It's either super cheap like the A24's or Blumhouse models or big blockbusters. And I know streaming was brought up but there is an amount of people that think streaming is still filled with the trash nobody wants or Hallmark style ripoffs which leads to stuff like yesterday when Netflix was showing off that it had big blockbusters coming out this year with Ryan Gosling, Chris Hemsworth, Charlize Theron and a whole damn Knives Out sequel. |
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Feb 4, 2022 14:12:27 GMT -5
Like most things in this country its capitalism. The studios keep merging and buying each other out becoming bigger and bigger. The bigger they get the bigger their movies have to be to sustain them. So they only want guaranteed huge successes. That means franchises and remakes. Every time we have this thread or it gets talked about elsewhere on the internet it turns into people standing up to defend superhero movies, when it's honestly not expressly about superhero movies; it's about the trends in major studio filmmaking, which have increasingly led us into an artistic and eventual commercial dead end where the only things that matter are IPs that can be branded, rebranded, sequelized, remade, rebooted, soft-rebooted, soft-sea-booted, or otherwise churned out as "content", the very thing so many of us are furious at WWE for becoming. But it's not specifically Iron Man's fault this is happening, just like how it isn't specifically Halo's or Call of Duty's fault that AAA video game companies are doing the exact same thing: it's the fact that we've allowed so much market consolidation, so many mergers, so much monopolization, that none of these corporate mega-entities are satisfied with consistently churning out films that make profits, nor even with making films that can make $100 million, but instead we've pretty much now hit the "$1 billion or bust" era and it's @#$%ing destroying cinema. It sucks and I hate it. I'll just repeat what I've said before on this topic: today, you'd never, ever get Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, Robocop, Terminator, or Predator greenlit. You'd never get any of Don Bluth's animated films, nor Who Framed Roger Rabbit. You wouldn't even get The Godfather or Jaws, which were based on highly successful novels, at least not with the level of detail or care they were given or the freedom Coppola and Spielberg were given to work with. And forget basically any of the output of the 60s cinema movement into the early 70s, all of that is dead or given a barebones budget and small-scale indie style release schedule, or otherwise buried on a streaming service and never heard from (Easy Rider, Bonnie and Clyde, Chinatown, etc.). You wouldn't even get mid-budget comedies like the ones that were so popular into the 1990s, like Wayne's World or Ace Ventura. Why? Because Star Wars cost too much money and would not be a guaranteed $1 billion earner. Because the older stuff is "too slow" and human drama-based and you can't sell merch of it. Because Bluth and Disney used to take chances, but today you have to "follow the formula" (Dreamworks faces and end-of-movie dance parties for everyone!). Because Indiana Jones required too many practical effects and wasn't a pre-established franchise. Because Robocop's social commentary was not subtle nor friendly towards the status quo. Because comedies don't make enough money unless they're made on a shoestring budget (I'm definitely going to see Jackass Forever, but that's why they'll get a wide release). Because Back to the Future has a kid who time travels and inadvertently makes out with his mom but only really clicks with a fully orchestrated Alan Silvestri score. None of this means superhero movies are bad. But since they're the style that now offers the greatest guarantee of a mega box office return, that's pretty much all we get in terms of major releases, and everything else is throttled. I get that Roland Emmerich makes a lot of shitty movies, and for God's sake the less said about Stonewall and its butchering of such important history the better, but cinema is dying a death. So yeah, I'll just share this video again because it's been one of the best summaries of the issue for me, and thankfully the creator of it doesn't come off as annoyed and rambly as I've been here. In a healthy environment, we'd have superhero movies/IP-driven franchises and everything else. We don't anymore. That's the problem. Well it was a little of that yeah. Presenting authority figures as virtuous just as given because they're authority figures IS bad and is kind of baked into some MCU movies and especially something like Transformers. But again that's a larger convo. I've got major problems with that side of things, too, but yeah, it's not exclusive to superhero content. Thank you for this, I’ve always been bad trying to articulate this point. People are always like “lol looks like SOMEONE’S jealous” when a direct gives their completely justified disdain for marvel movies and the negative effect they’re having on the film industry. It’s not a matter of “superhero movies are dumb.” I love comic books, I was excited seeing these characters brought to life on screen and done justice, but when it’s the only thing studios will get behind (whether it’s marvel, Star Wars, shared universes, mega franchises) it f***in boring and stifling the creativity of people who want to make something that isn’t the new Ka-Zar movie or whatever. |
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Feb 4, 2022 14:18:04 GMT -5
Are there more problematic elements in them? Honestly yeah, there can definitely be some arguments made about the way MCU movies particularly are pretty in lockstep with the unvarnished valorization of the military and police as one example (though American movies tend to do that regardless of genre). So I’m supposed to be upset about seeing authority figures depicted positively as heroes? Because I’m not. I love that about the MCU and I’m getting beyond sick of hearing people complain about that. Well, I mean, skirting around politics, we’ve seen the atrocious things authority figures are capable of over the past few years (way longer than that actually) so it is kind of a bad thing that there’s a billion dollar movie franchise basically doing PR for them lolol |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 4, 2022 14:22:55 GMT -5
Good. So I’m supposed to be upset about seeing authority figures depicted positively as heroes? Because I’m not. I love that about the MCU and I’m getting beyond sick of hearing people complain about that. Well, I mean, skirting around politics, we’ve seen the atrocious things authority figures are capable of over the past few years (way longer than that actually) so it is kind of a bad thing that there’s a billion dollar movie franchise basically doing PR for them lolol Let me put it like this: I’m not asking that characters like John Walker from “Falcon and The Winter Soldier” should be banned or not written about or anything. They’re fine now and then. But I will defend someone like, say, Tony Stark on being a rich guy who’s shown to care about people, or Batman with his cash and gadgets teaming with Gordon as a vigilante. Those types of heroes should still be able to thrive. |
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Feb 4, 2022 14:42:25 GMT -5
Well, I mean, skirting around politics, we’ve seen the atrocious things authority figures are capable of over the past few years (way longer than that actually) so it is kind of a bad thing that there’s a billion dollar movie franchise basically doing PR for them lolol Let me put it like this: I’m not asking that characters like John Walker from “Falcon and The Winter Soldier” should be banned or not written about or anything. They’re fine now and then. But I will defend someone like, say, Tony Stark on being a rich guy who’s shown to care about people, or Batman with his cash and gadgets teaming with Gordon as a vigilante. Those types of heroes should still be able to thrive. They have been thriving though. For years. I loved marvel comics when I was younger cuz they managed to have smart (sometimes a little hamfisted) social commentary and superheroes fighting aliens and shit. These movies have completely sterilized that. Any social commentary in them is very surface level and half assed. You could say I’m expecting a lot from a big budget franchise backed by one of the most evil corporations, but idk, I just think it sucks. |
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