Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 4, 2022 5:28:22 GMT -5
Here? No. There isn't a ton of doom talk. I'm personally talking about other places, unless I specify FAN in my postings. So Twitter, Reddit, the like Personally if I'm talking here, I mean when people say 950k and 3rd in cable is "disappointing" by that metric, it is overblown imo. AEW literally can't have a down week without it being a disappointment it seems, even if there is pretty sound reasoning as to why and it's the first time they've been under a million average in four weeks I think. If you want to argue with people on Reddit or Twitter, you should do it over there. Or at least make it abundantly clear that's what you're doing. There's way too much strawmanning of arguments in these threads that aren't actually happening on this board. Ultimately, if you're going to take the opinion that anything north of 400k is a success, there is no need to bother discussing anything in an AEW ratings thread. If you'd asked before yesterday, most people would've predicted this rating would be higher than what it ended up being. If you'd asked a year ago what a CM Punk-MJF main event would get, people would have predicted way higher. I think it's ok to discuss that rationally without leaping to defending the entire company's existence. We all know those arguments, they get made literally every week. Arguing with people ON Reddit or Twitter is useless, and Im not calling anyone out here specifically when I do say stuff like this, more often than not I think it's pretty clear what subsection I'm talking about, especially when no one here is being unreasonable. Plenty of others in this thread even bring up how tedious those are, it's mainly discussing that aspect of the discussions at this point, very much grateful it isn't here. And they don't get made literally every week, they get made when the rating is slightly below the expectation, it happens all the time. Four weeks ago 950K would have been considered a success, the move to TBS has raised the viewership floor and the expectation, it is what it is, but these numbers are to be expected sometimes and I don't think it's wrong to site competition and what did well that week to have it happen. South Park premiering at 8PM now instead of 10 for the new season might keep Dynamite slightly lower until it's over, hence why it's brought up at all, because expectations for the viewership might be lower than normal for the next few weeks. Or who knows, maybe it'll just go back up like nothing happened and things will just keep movin on like they always do. I don't think it's bad to argue if people thought a rating would be higher, nor do I think it's wrong to cite reasoning, whether it's competition or as others said here stuff like maybe the Brandi promo not hitting, as I said, it happens, and at this point I do think AEW has more than proven they're here to stay, and ratings threads will become more and more like RAW's or Smackdowns, there, but no indication of a bad future because hopefully by this time next year, AEW will get a very good new TV deal as a whole.
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 6:55:49 GMT -5
Nobody saying we shouldn’t have ratings discussions but some of the takes I see from people are weird so I just wanted to point out we don’t have anything really factually to say they are unsatisfied with them, just that we are. And yeah, we could say the same about Raw and Smackdown since the only issues we hear about from FOX and USA are of the lack of starpower and such, very rarely anything beyond that. Like, Sean Ross Sapp with all his sources could probably find out if someone in TNT or TBS would wish for more consistency but it hasn’t happened. And along with that, both of them have been hyping up every time the show does well and breaking records which, to me, says they’re damn happy with it. If they suddenly drop viewers every week for the rest of the year and nothing works and PPV and attendances drop in that timeframe and no changes improve that…then we should be pretty concerned. A week below a million? Eh. We’re blaming South Park now? So can any other TV show not be on at the same time or something? No…but sometimes a show can come on that takes the 18-45 demo and cause a drop in audience. It happens, that’s television. And they’re still in the Top 3 regardless which says a lot about it’s stability as a show.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 4, 2022 7:47:32 GMT -5
I wouldnt say there was one thing that contributed to the atings going down ad much as a bunch of little things. First new season of South Park in 3 years with an 8 o clock debut, there was CONCOCAF World Cup Qualifying (I'll admit I flipped back and forth between the US game and Dynamite till the game was over), basketball games, ect. Wonder if the winter weather in some areas played a part.
Plus aside from Punk/MJF there wasn't really much promoted as must see.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 4, 2022 7:50:05 GMT -5
Nobody saying we shouldn’t have ratings discussions but some of the takes I see from people are weird so I just wanted to point out we don’t have anything really factually to say they are unsatisfied with them, just that we are. And yeah, we could say the same about Raw and Smackdown since the only issues we hear about from FOX and USA are of the lack of starpower and such, very rarely anything beyond that. Like, Sean Ross Sapp with all his sources could probably find out if someone in TNT or TBS would wish for more consistency but it hasn’t happened. And along with that, both of them have been hyping up every time the show does well and breaking records which, to me, says they’re damn happy with it. If they suddenly drop viewers every week for the rest of the year and nothing works and PPV and attendances drop in that timeframe and no changes improve that…then we should be pretty concerned. A week below a million? Eh. We’re blaming South Park now? So can any other TV show not be on at the same time or something? No…but sometimes a show can come on that takes the 18-45 demo and cause a drop in audience. It happens, that’s television. And they’re still in the Top 3 regardless which says a lot about it’s stability as a show. What’s the relevance of TBS being happy with the number if posters aren’t saying the show is going to get canceled and aren’t saying the networks must be unhappy, just that they personally thought it would be higher? I’m sure the networks are happy. I don’t think they’re still expecting 300K-400K though, as that was already two renegotiations (and pay increases) ago.
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 8:01:36 GMT -5
What’s the relevance of TBS being happy with the number if posters aren’t saying the show is going to get canceled and aren’t saying the networks must be unhappy, just that they personally thought it would be higher? I’m sure the networks are happy. I don’t think they’re still expecting 300K-400K though, as that was already two renegotiations (and pay increases) ago. I’m not talking about those who think it should be higher, that’s fine. I’m talking about the weird minority that pop up and act like the show was a failure because they exist and they have been in these threads. We say that but there’s no clear cut evidence of that, is there? Along with the fact that, as far as we know, these were extensions rather than actually anything with new exectations, were they not? Like, if there was something, a Meltzer (who is one of the few to have links with people in television production along with Zarian) would have said something, right?
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 4, 2022 8:29:54 GMT -5
What’s the relevance of TBS being happy with the number if posters aren’t saying the show is going to get canceled and aren’t saying the networks must be unhappy, just that they personally thought it would be higher? I’m sure the networks are happy. I don’t think they’re still expecting 300K-400K though, as that was already two renegotiations (and pay increases) ago. I’m not talking about those who think it should be higher, that’s fine. I’m talking about the weird minority that pop up and act like the show was a failure because they exist and they have been in these threads. We say that but there’s no clear cut evidence of that, is there? Along with the fact that, as far as we know, these were extensions rather than actually anything with new exectations, were they not? Like, if there was something, a Meltzer (who is one of the few to have links with people in television production along with Zarian) would have said something, right? There were increased rights’ fees in both renegotiations. More money means more expectations. And Meltzer’s original point on the subject was something like TNT expects 400K viewers to start, but if it doesn’t grow that would be an issue. And then they gave them more money after that, twice. I assume the expectations are no longer 400K. I’d guess Meltzer has posted about it more on his site since then , as that was almost 3 years ago now.
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 8:36:56 GMT -5
I’m not talking about those who think it should be higher, that’s fine. I’m talking about the weird minority that pop up and act like the show was a failure because they exist and they have been in these threads. We say that but there’s no clear cut evidence of that, is there? Along with the fact that, as far as we know, these were extensions rather than actually anything with new exectations, were they not? Like, if there was something, a Meltzer (who is one of the few to have links with people in television production along with Zarian) would have said something, right? There were increased rights’ fees in both renegotiations. More money means more expectations. And Meltzer’s original point on the subject was something like TNT expects 400K viewers to start, but if it doesn’t grow that would be an issue. And then they gave them more money after that, twice. I assume the expectations are no longer 400K. I’d guess Meltzer has posted about it more on his site since then , as that was almost 3 years ago now. I mean…easiest solution would be to ask any of the Meltzer subscribers here to clarify? Assumptions make an ass of you and me as they say.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 4, 2022 9:26:14 GMT -5
So I’ve been asking this for a while now but…where did people get this impression they must be getting a million weekly or else they’re a failure? Like, under the terms of the present TV deal, as far as any of us know, the network only expected to be getting about 300-400k when it started and that was from the mouth of the head of programming at TNT. So besides it being a runaway success and TNT/TBS going out of its way to lavish praise on it when it gets the chance, it feels like this weird drumming of controversy to look at a rating triple the minimum and saying “OH MAN, THE DOWNFALL IS COMING!” and such. Not saying everyone has but I see it way too many times and have to ask. They’re supposed to get a new one sorted next year so that’ll likely put broader expectations since the networks can see what they’ll do now but right now? I’m not getting some of the panic. EDIT: Also, you know, South Park etc Who in this thread is panicking though? I have seen maybe one post I could even perceive as concerned. Most people are taking this for what it is - a temporary slip. Not trying to start a fight, I'm asking out of genuine curiosity because I guess I just don't see it. If you're talking about others elsewhere, a lot of it is people posting in bad faith or those who don't understand ratings ebb and flow.
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 9:28:47 GMT -5
So I’ve been asking this for a while now but…where did people get this impression they must be getting a million weekly or else they’re a failure? Like, under the terms of the present TV deal, as far as any of us know, the network only expected to be getting about 300-400k when it started and that was from the mouth of the head of programming at TNT. So besides it being a runaway success and TNT/TBS going out of its way to lavish praise on it when it gets the chance, it feels like this weird drumming of controversy to look at a rating triple the minimum and saying “OH MAN, THE DOWNFALL IS COMING!” and such. Not saying everyone has but I see it way too many times and have to ask. They’re supposed to get a new one sorted next year so that’ll likely put broader expectations since the networks can see what they’ll do now but right now? I’m not getting some of the panic. EDIT: Also, you know, South Park etc Who in this thread is panicking though? I have seen maybe one post I could even perceive as concerned. Most people are taking this for what it is - a temporary slip. Not trying to start a fight, I'm asking out of genuine curiosity because I guess I just don't see it. If you're talking about others elsewhere, a lot of it is people posting in bad faith or those who don't understand ratings ebb and flow. I will say, and this is my conceit, it’s less here now than there was, say, a month or two ago but that’s because, well, a lot of those people are gone. Because, like you said, they were bad faith idiots. Just find some of the talking points weird, is all.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 4, 2022 9:37:38 GMT -5
There were increased rights’ fees in both renegotiations. More money means more expectations. And Meltzer’s original point on the subject was something like TNT expects 400K viewers to start, but if it doesn’t grow that would be an issue. And then they gave them more money after that, twice. I assume the expectations are no longer 400K. I’d guess Meltzer has posted about it more on his site since then , as that was almost 3 years ago now. I mean…easiest solution would be to ask any of the Meltzer subscribers here to clarify? Assumptions make an ass of you and me as they say. Well I have seen Meltzer‘s post from May 2019 saying that the expectations are 400K but if it does not grow after that, it is an issue. I can check the boards/old newsletters for exact quotes but it seems obvious TBS wouldn’t be happy after giving raises if the ratings suddenly plummeted to 400K.
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 9:47:13 GMT -5
Well I have seen Meltzer‘s post from May 2019 saying that the expectations are 400K but if it does not grow after that, it is an issue. I can check the boards/old newsletters for exact quotes but it seems obvious TBS wouldn’t be happy after giving raises if the ratings suddenly plummeted to 400K. Which is not what I said. What I said was that doing 950k at times when they do 1m over a period of time isn’t some end of the world thing some people think it is.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 4, 2022 9:57:05 GMT -5
Well I have seen Meltzer‘s post from May 2019 saying that the expectations are 400K but if it does not grow after that, it is an issue. I can check the boards/old newsletters for exact quotes but it seems obvious TBS wouldn’t be happy after giving raises if the ratings suddenly plummeted to 400K. Which is not what I said. What I said was that doing 950k at times when they do 1m over a period of time isn’t some end of the world thing some people think it is. That was your broad stroke point maybe , I was just pointing out that the minimum expectations are no longer 300-400K like you mentioned: “ Like, under the terms of the present TV deal, as far as any of us know, the network only expected to be getting about 300-400k when it started and that was from the mouth of the head of programming at TNT. So besides it being a runaway success and TNT/TBS going out of its way to lavish praise on it when it gets the chance, it feels like this weird drumming of controversy to look at a rating triple the minimum and saying “OH MAN, THE DOWNFALL IS COMING!” and such.”
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 10:00:19 GMT -5
Which is not what I said. What I said was that doing 950k at times when they do 1m over a period of time isn’t some end of the world thing some people think it is. That was your broad stroke point maybe , I was just pointing out that the minimum expectations are no longer 300-400K like you mentioned: “ Like, under the terms of the present TV deal, as far as any of us know, the network only expected to be getting about 300-400k when it started and that was from the mouth of the head of programming at TNT. So besides it being a runaway success and TNT/TBS going out of its way to lavish praise on it when it gets the chance, it feels like this weird drumming of controversy to look at a rating triple the minimum and saying “OH MAN, THE DOWNFALL IS COMING!” and such.” I was using that as an example, a tangible one that we know of, about hey, doing 950k instead of 1m for a week is great considering where they were expected before. And the newer TV deal coming up next year, which would be different from the ones before, would likely rise expectations further or at least tell them to keep them going at that level. EDIT: The core of that being they’ll get a f***load more money than they are right now.
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Post by CeilingFan on Feb 4, 2022 10:06:20 GMT -5
As long as Dynamite has at least 900000 viewers and Rampage has 500000, I am not worried.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 10:06:50 GMT -5
We’re blaming South Park now? So can any other TV show not be on at the same time or something? Even more preposterous considering it's only 30 minutes against a 2 hour show. I feel like if numbers are down from week to week we always have the same "ship is sinking" people as well as the group of people who try to spin every single thing into a positive because they fear that letting any crack show will damage the product long term. It's absolutely wild and through all of TNA's craziness I do not remember some of the lines in the sand being this clear.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 4, 2022 10:13:11 GMT -5
We’re blaming South Park now? So can any other TV show not be on at the same time or something? Even more preposterous considering it's only 30 minutes against a 2 hour show. I feel like if numbers are down from week to week we always have the same "ship is sinking" people as well as the group of people who try to spin every single thing into a positive because they fear that letting any crack show will damage the product long term. It's absolutely wild and through all of TNA's craziness I do not remember some of the lines in the sand being this clear. I think once we see the actual quarter-hour numbers and such, people will be able to have a more informed take on what actually went on. For all we know, more people tuned in as the show went on.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 4, 2022 10:13:45 GMT -5
South Park being at 8 PM could lead to a snowball effect, though. Did it single-handedly prevent this week's AEW Dynamite from being an all-time ratings hit? Probably not. But the crossover audience between the two could've DVR'd Dynamite or just go "I already missed a half-hour of Dynamite this week. I'll catch it on demand later. Or skip it and watch the segments I wanted to see on YouTube."
That crossover audience may only be a few thousand people or so, but that's also the difference between 950k and 1m in total viewership. Or .35 and .4 in the core demo.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 4, 2022 10:18:30 GMT -5
Even more preposterous considering it's only 30 minutes against a 2 hour show. I feel like if numbers are down from week to week we always have the same "ship is sinking" people as well as the group of people who try to spin every single thing into a positive because they fear that letting any crack show will damage the product long term. It's absolutely wild and through all of TNA's craziness I do not remember some of the lines in the sand being this clear. I think once we see the actual quarter-hour numbers and such, people will be able to have a more informed take on what actually went on. For all we know, more people tuned in as the show went on. Check page 2!
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 4, 2022 10:29:43 GMT -5
I think once we see the actual quarter-hour numbers and such, people will be able to have a more informed take on what actually went on. For all we know, more people tuned in as the show went on. Check page 2! D'OH!
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Feb 4, 2022 10:43:18 GMT -5
Here? No. There isn't a ton of doom talk. I'm personally talking about other places, unless I specify FAN in my postings. So Twitter, Reddit, the like Personally if I'm talking here, I mean when people say 950k and 3rd in cable is "disappointing" by that metric, it is overblown imo. AEW literally can't have a down week without it being a disappointment it seems, even if there is pretty sound reasoning as to why and it's the first time they've been under a million average in four weeks I think. If you want to argue with people on Reddit or Twitter, you should do it over there. Or at least make it abundantly clear that's what you're doing. There's way too much strawmanning of arguments in these threads that aren't actually happening on this board. Ultimately, if you're going to take the opinion that anything north of 400k is a success, there is no need to bother discussing anything in an AEW ratings thread. If you'd asked before yesterday, most people would've predicted this rating would be higher than what it ended up being. If you'd asked a year ago what a CM Punk-MJF main event would get, people would have predicted way higher. I think it's ok to discuss that rationally without leaping to defending the entire company's existence. We all know those arguments, they get made literally every week. This is sort of the point I made a few weeks ago in the weekly Rate Dynamite thread. Obviously any post within the rules can be made, but every single week the consensus ranges from 8-10--I don't know what type of value that scale really adds. If it's a particularly badly-received Dynamite you may get a few people rating it a 5. I feel like a 10 is a show that will be remembered and talked about for years to come, like the Streakbreaker Raw or the Dallas Raw or the Nitro where the NWO laid out the locker room at Disney. Anything over 1 million being a raging success and anything under being explained away by something else being on is about equally uninteresting. If fans really, REALLY want to watch the show, they will, regardless of what else is premiering that week. Anyway, someone on another board pointed out something that I agree with and was likely true in the MNW days as well: a given week's rating is probably a greater indication of how good *prior* weeks were rather than how good or how promising that particular show is. This 900K result came after a few weeks of lackluster episodes. That's going to hurt, even with a strong main event.
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