salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,045
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Post by salz4life on Feb 4, 2022 10:47:10 GMT -5
As long as the channel/Turner is happy.... that's all that really matters.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 4, 2022 10:48:41 GMT -5
I have some scattered thoughts:
- The quarter hours tell a pretty clear story to me. Quarter 1 got the big lead it and didn't maintain it like previous weeks. After that, the show was incredibly steady. The overall number represents the audience that came in and sat down and watched the show. We can speculate as to why the other 100K-200K viewers didn't tune in this week but I don't think it was a Brandi thing. Folks just did something else this week.
- In terms of competition, you can't purely look at the overall number other shows did. For example, NXT took a greater chunk out of the weekly AEW number than a ton of other shows that did much better numbers. That's pretty obvious because NXT and AEW had a relatively large crossover audience since they're both wrestling shows. It's not so much about the viewers on other channels but the crossover audience between two shows. I don't have the data on South Park or World Cup Qualifying and AEW but it's possible those shows have a decent crossover with AEW so they felt this show could be DVRed instead. And that makes sense on the surface given AEW's audience tends to be a little more higher income and metropolitan men which I know overlaps with the American soccer audience and I imagine it's somewhat true with South Park. But the overall point is the number other shows did don't tell the whole story.
- In terms of whether people should be concerned, we rarely should on any one individual week. It's all about trends. And the main feud this show was built around has been doing good number. So let's see where it goes. And even if AEW keeps these numbers around this level, that's still up from there they were during their first few months as most of TV sees decreases. The key to their next TV deal will be getting a second bidder but if Turner is super happy, they may want to get them extended before they even hit the market. Time will tell but they seem in a solid position.
- And lastly, I think it's important to remember that ratings can sometimes be random and one week can just be weird. Look at the lowest 18-49 number Rampage ever did. It was the October show in Philly. That show had Punk, a tag title match, and a Philly Street Fight with a long running and featured feud. I love Rampage and the show is usually great but they certainly have had some shows that had skippable cards to more casual AEW fans who just watch Dynamite. That show had a really solid card. And it did a bad number. But then it rebounded with worse cards. Even the New Year's Eve show beat it. Some were worried with that number and it ended up being fine. You can still learn from some trends in one week data but you really need a long term view.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Feb 4, 2022 10:48:50 GMT -5
Good lord the back and forth in here.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 4, 2022 10:56:17 GMT -5
Good lord the back and forth in here. Just your average weekly ratings thread on the FAN!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 10:57:05 GMT -5
Good lord the back and forth in here. As much as it is frustrating to see it week in and week out it is also what I appreciate about this place...Most online communities (like SquaredCircle with AEW) have a predominant fanbase and it's impossible to enjoy and talk about both on those due to the overall narratives...I have been able to debate both companies here, regardless of how polarizing my opinions are, without incident (save for one person), since AEW's inception, and for that I am grateful.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Feb 4, 2022 10:58:38 GMT -5
Good lord the back and forth in here. Are we not supposed to have discussion on a discussion board or something?
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Feb 4, 2022 11:00:08 GMT -5
I do think there’s a worthwhile discussion to be had about ratings that isn’t just concern-trolling or chest-thumping.
The thing, for me, is why isn’t wrestling more popular even among those who are aware enough about wrestling to follow it? What I mean is that the episode after the Bryan/Cole debut got a 1.3 rating. And again, if I’m right, AEW has only gotten close to that rating once since.
Why weren’t those viewers kept? If we allow that some were curious and tuned out after, some are streaming online, and all the rest—then wrestling not accessible to viewers? Is the idea of TV ratings antiquated when almost everything goes to streaming, eventually? Should AEW look to go to HBO Max as soon as possible? How much would that help?
Look. I’ve said this. I think outside of a handful of guys, and yes, they’re all guys, AEW’s stories are pretty basic or non-existent and that probably plays a factor in the numbers, but it’s such a relatively small thing. I think the issue of ratings is much larger and much broader and even arbitrary. Like, if Punk/MJF opens the show, you undoubtedly get a better number.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 4, 2022 11:35:53 GMT -5
I do think there’s a worthwhile discussion to be had about ratings that isn’t just concern-trolling or chest-thumping. The thing, for me, is why isn’t wrestling more popular even among those who are aware enough about wrestling to follow it? What I mean is that the episode after the Bryan/Cole debut got a 1.3 rating. And again, if I’m right, AEW has only gotten close to that rating once since. Why weren’t those viewers kept? If we allow that some were curious and tuned out after, some are streaming online, and all the rest—then wrestling not accessible to viewers? Is the idea of TV ratings antiquated when almost everything goes to streaming, eventually? Should AEW look to go to HBO Max as soon as possible? How much would that help? Look. I’ve said this. I think outside of a handful of guys, and yes, they’re all guys, AEW’s stories are pretty basic or non-existent and that probably plays a factor in the numbers, but it’s such a relatively small thing. I think the issue of ratings is much larger and much broader and even arbitrary. Like, if Punk/MJF opens the show, you undoubtedly get a better number. You may get better numbers for the opening quarter hours, but then you could lose folks over the course of the show and you'll burn out the crowd before Rampage, which they probably didn't want either. Nielsen numbers have never been like the most scientific thing ever and I feel like now they're even less relevant. Not to bring WWE into it, but for all the talk about WWE losing their audience, they're still hitting 2 million-plus on lots of their YouTube clips, have a big social following, etc. Not all of that can be like paid social boosting, either. People are still following the brand, just in different ways. WWE's glorification of the Monday Night Wars taught their entire audience to treat ratings as gospel but there are just so many different ways to measure a company's success. Honestly, we're living in a world where both major wrestling promotions are doing well and I'm happy about that.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 4, 2022 11:37:24 GMT -5
Good lord the back and forth in here. As much as it is frustrating to see it week in and week out it is also what I appreciate about this place...Most online communities (like SquaredCircle with AEW) have a predominant fanbase and it's impossible to enjoy and talk about both on those due to the overall narratives...I have been able to debate both companies here, regardless of how polarizing my opinions are, without incident (save for one person), since AEW's inception, and for that I am grateful. Yeah, I think this is my favorite community even when I disagree with folks, it's nice.
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Post by eJm on Feb 4, 2022 12:07:47 GMT -5
WWE's glorification of the Monday Night Wars taught their entire audience to treat ratings as gospel but there are just so many different ways to measure a company's success. Honestly, we're living in a world where both major wrestling promotions are doing well and I'm happy about that. Pretty much. Like, focusing on a small time in history both makes the present look crappy in comparison, intentional or not, but it erodes away a lot of the outsider factors that made Raw and Nitro get the numbers they did. Also ignores the fact that those numbers were dwarfed constantly by Monday Night Football (even if they were worried about the demos eating into it) but still. And it’s not even just the big two, really. Impact’s doing well enough that the company that owns them brought a whole TV station to keep them happy and even ROH is pulling better than expected syndication numbers and was never a reason for Sinclair’s financial problems (like everything else, it’s big money spent on dumb things). The thing that widely should be accepted is that wrestling is a niche. Niches can do extremely well and right now, they are. It’s not doing Monday Night Wars well but by that logic, a lot of TV finales did shit because they didn’t do the 60m MASH did a billion years ago and that clearly isn’t the case.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,134
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 4, 2022 12:17:28 GMT -5
You’re almost always going to lose SOME viewers. Big Bang Theory gives you a big lead in, but some of those viewers are not going to stick around for long.
It’s what AEW starting off hot with a big match or angle is a smart move. And they did that here either Moxley getting a match and then the stuff with Danielson afterwards.
Now as to why it fell off more than normal, could be any number of things. The middle part of the show being kind of meh, other programming being on, people being tired (I had worked for like 9 days straight so I was certainly tired), etc.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Feb 4, 2022 12:31:44 GMT -5
I do think there’s a worthwhile discussion to be had about ratings that isn’t just concern-trolling or chest-thumping. The thing, for me, is why isn’t wrestling more popular even among those who are aware enough about wrestling to follow it? What I mean is that the episode after the Bryan/Cole debut got a 1.3 rating. And again, if I’m right, AEW has only gotten close to that rating once since. Why weren’t those viewers kept? If we allow that some were curious and tuned out after, some are streaming online, and all the rest—then wrestling not accessible to viewers? Is the idea of TV ratings antiquated when almost everything goes to streaming, eventually? Should AEW look to go to HBO Max as soon as possible? How much would that help? Look. I’ve said this. I think outside of a handful of guys, and yes, they’re all guys, AEW’s stories are pretty basic or non-existent and that probably plays a factor in the numbers, but it’s such a relatively small thing. I think the issue of ratings is much larger and much broader and even arbitrary. Like, if Punk/MJF opens the show, you undoubtedly get a better number. You may get better numbers for the opening quarter hours, but then you could lose folks over the course of the show and you’ll burn out the crowd before Rampage, which they probably didn’t want either. Nielsen numbers have never been like the most scientific thing ever and I feel like now they’re even less relevant. Not to bring WWE into it, but for all the talk about WWE losing their audience, they’re still hitting 2 million-plus on lots of their YouTube clips, have a big social following, etc. Not all of that can be like paid social boosting, either. People are still following the brand, just in different ways. WWE’s glorification of the Monday Night Wars taught their entire audience to treat ratings as gospel but there are just so many different ways to measure a company’s success. Honestly, we’re living in a world where both major wrestling promotions are doing well and I’m happy about that. I just looked on YouTube. Moxley/Bryan is already at 1 million viewers, MJF v Punk is near 800k. There are certainly a lot of fans who aren’t watching live. And another super important thing to consider: We don’t get any day-after ratings. No Live+3 days or Live+7. Meltzer mentioned that both WWE and AEW do really well in those. Networks care about those, too. ABC is bragging about the ratings that the “Abbott Elementary” debut episode accumulated after a month. A month. There are all sorts of metrics. “Abbott Elementary” is great, btw.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Feb 4, 2022 12:32:56 GMT -5
AEW rating threads are always so drama filled. If WWE has a big main event and the demo goes way down from the previous week it'll just be like, "that's a disappointing number considering the hype" and that'll be it.
If a word like disappointing or anything that could be construed as negative is used for AEW though there are people who will jump on it and you end up with pages of back and forth. Like it seems insane to me that the thread for the Punk v MJF match is only at 2 pages while the thread for the ratings is already at 5.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 4, 2022 12:55:33 GMT -5
AEW rating threads are always so drama filled. If WWE has a big main event and the demo goes way down from the previous week it'll just be like, "that's a disappointing number considering the hype" and that'll be it. If a word like disappointing or anything that could be construed as negative is used for AEW though there are people who will jump on it and you end up with pages of back and forth. Like it seems insane to me that the thread for the Punk v MJF match is only at 2 pages while the thread for the ratings is already at 5. You weren't around for the WWE Raw ratings threads when MNF significantly affecting the ratings wasn't a given yet. Or the TNA Impact or WWECW rating threads. Those could be adventures.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 237,271
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 4, 2022 13:02:17 GMT -5
If you want to argue with people on Reddit or Twitter, you should do it over there. Or at least make it abundantly clear that's what you're doing. There's way too much strawmanning of arguments in these threads that aren't actually happening on this board. Ultimately, if you're going to take the opinion that anything north of 400k is a success, there is no need to bother discussing anything in an AEW ratings thread. If you'd asked before yesterday, most people would've predicted this rating would be higher than what it ended up being. If you'd asked a year ago what a CM Punk-MJF main event would get, people would have predicted way higher. I think it's ok to discuss that rationally without leaping to defending the entire company's existence. We all know those arguments, they get made literally every week. This is sort of the point I made a few weeks ago in the weekly Rate Dynamite thread. Obviously any post within the rules can be made, but every single week the consensus ranges from 8-10--I don't know what type of value that scale really adds. If it's a particularly badly-received Dynamite you may get a few people rating it a 5. I feel like a 10 is a show that will be remembered and talked about for years to come, like the Streakbreaker Raw or the Dallas Raw or the Nitro where the NWO laid out the locker room at Disney. Anything over 1 million being a raging success and anything under being explained away by something else being on is about equally uninteresting. If fans really, REALLY want to watch the show, they will, regardless of what else is premiering that week. Anyway, someone on another board pointed out something that I agree with and was likely true in the MNW days as well: a given week's rating is probably a greater indication of how good *prior* weeks were rather than how good or how promising that particular show is. This 900K result came after a few weeks of lackluster episodes. That's going to hurt, even with a strong main event. Just like the Rate Polls however, what is perceived as a "lackluster" episode of Dynamite is also extremely ambiguous, and it's hard to say if that would have a huge impact on this particular show, because again, the perception of what is or isn't lackluster, is extremely broad. The MNW viewing audience and the modern generations viewing audience are not the same in how they enjoy or view their content live, not even close.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 237,271
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 4, 2022 13:06:23 GMT -5
I still personally, and this is just me, think that the shows ratings are actually positively telling even if down from last week. The show keeps the fanbase that tunes in, consistently. There is usually a dropoff on the lead-in, which is common, but they stayed in that 950K range the entire show. There's no giant dropoff where the show just plunges in the middle, or even in what used to be seen as a death slot in Quarter 7. That's impressive when you need to keep fans attentions, and it shows when people tune into AEW, most of the time, they're staying the entire two hours. Network's like when shows can keep their line even when that line is already pleasant to look at.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 237,271
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 4, 2022 13:08:54 GMT -5
As much as it is frustrating to see it week in and week out it is also what I appreciate about this place...Most online communities (like SquaredCircle with AEW) have a predominant fanbase and it's impossible to enjoy and talk about both on those due to the overall narratives...I have been able to debate both companies here, regardless of how polarizing my opinions are, without incident (save for one person), since AEW's inception, and for that I am grateful. Yeah, I think this is my favorite community even when I disagree with folks, it's nice. There's a reason I discuss stuff on here and not Twitter. At least when I talk to someone here, 95 percent of the time, I know I'm talking to a human and not some asshole troll. FAN has seen them pop up, but it's better than posting a lukewarm take on a Twitter thread and being bombarded with people calling YOU a robot for another company.
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Post by BlahBlah on Feb 7, 2022 15:41:27 GMT -5
I do think there’s a worthwhile discussion to be had about ratings that isn’t just concern-trolling or chest-thumping. The thing, for me, is why isn’t wrestling more popular even among those who are aware enough about wrestling to follow it? What I mean is that the episode after the Bryan/Cole debut got a 1.3 rating. And again, if I’m right, AEW has only gotten close to that rating once since. Why weren’t those viewers kept? If we allow that some were curious and tuned out after, some are streaming online, and all the rest—then wrestling not accessible to viewers? Is the idea of TV ratings antiquated when almost everything goes to streaming, eventually? Should AEW look to go to HBO Max as soon as possible? How much would that help? Look. I’ve said this. I think outside of a handful of guys, and yes, they’re all guys, AEW’s stories are pretty basic or non-existent and that probably plays a factor in the numbers, but it’s such a relatively small thing. I think the issue of ratings is much larger and much broader and even arbitrary. Like, if Punk/MJF opens the show, you undoubtedly get a better number. This is a good post. I'm one of those people that tuned into Bryan's debut, Punk's, Cole's etc and still don't watch it weekly even though I follow it here. For me personally it's a combination of there simply being so much flipping wrestling on every week (good problem to have) but more AEW specific, I find the roster too big and the storytelling not compelling enough to tune in on a weekly basis. It's objectively an above average wrestling show for sure, it's now just such a crowded space and it becomes a bit of a bummer when you eventually do tune in and don't get to see one of your favorites.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 7, 2022 16:19:36 GMT -5
it becomes a bit of a bummer when you eventually do tune in and don't get to see one of your favorites. I think the inverse problem is a big part of why I tend to have waves of caring about AEW. It's not the entire reason - their absolutely glacial pacing and how everything they do is telegraphed from a mile off I think is the biggest issue - but there's also just a gigantic chunk of the roster that I do not even slightly care about and after awhile it tends to just kind of grate on me seeing, like, the Varsity Blonds and the Gunns and 2point0 and Matt Hardy and Jericho and whoever else every single week.
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Post by eJm on Feb 7, 2022 16:35:40 GMT -5
It's objectively an above average wrestling show for sure, it's now just such a crowded space and it becomes a bit of a bummer when you eventually do tune in and don't get to see one of your favorites. Hot take: I think Dynamite's problem for me is that I do see my faves every week. I like a lot of the people on there right now but honestly, they should have some of those people show up on the main show to build their cred. And yeah, I understand it's a TV show and you need to have names but do what you did a couple of years ago and have Preston Vance and Max Caster have a match. Have Joey Janela take on, I don't know, Matt Sydal so Janela's valet can appear on TV and talk about Dark. Give Sonny Kiss a match here and there. The names can still do promos and the like but the issue with WWE is that they have a deep roster and they only use so many of them even after all the firings, you might as well do the inverse. Build some names and get them exposure so that if some of the bigger guys are out with injury, you have names people know, even midcard ones. I might be just crying out to the wind but that's just me.
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