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Post by thelonewolf527 on Mar 6, 2022 23:37:30 GMT -5
I think the thing with Jeff Hardy's case that makes it bad for him is the fact that his exit was REALLY strange. Like I at least have some questions as to whether Jeff did that on purpose in an attempt to get fired. And if that was the case, AND he was breaking his contract by negotiating with AEW before he was allowed to, it wouldn't end pretty.
If he was just like some that got released then it probably would be a little different.
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Post by mistery on Mar 6, 2022 23:49:51 GMT -5
I think the thing with Jeff Hardy's case that makes it bad for him is the fact that his exist was REALLY strange. Like I at least have some questions as to whether Jeff did that on purpose in an attempt to get fired. And if that was the case, AND he was breaking his contract by negotiating with AEW before he was allowed to, it wouldn't end pretty. If he was just like some that got released then it probably would be a little different. Yup. That's the big catch. The fact that he just walked out in the middle of a match and wasn't under the influence or anything would definitely be an absolutely massive negative point against AEW. To add onto this, WWE got nailed by ROH awhile back for contract tampering. They eventually settled out of court and didn't approach ROH talent again until they were well outside of the contract period. And if you think AEW would try and drag this out, you would be mistaken. Especially since Tony does veto bookings for talents (which goes against the independent contractor status), and plus the moment that this suit was served, Shadid would probably be on the phone with Vince looking to settle. Because the Khans would take an absolutely nasty financial beating here. And that settlement would probably end with Shadid taking complete financial control of AEW. Especially since its (legally) his money being invested into it right now. You would also be hard pressed to find a court that would actually rule in favor of independent contractors at this point. While your mileage may vary on a state level court wise, circuit courts are very conservative/right wing, nevermind the Supreme Court.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Mar 7, 2022 0:03:07 GMT -5
I mean, I feel like all AEW would have to say is "let's define independent contractor" and WWE would be running for the hills. A. Not sure Tony would want to bring that can of worms for himself. B. WWE aren't the only ones that misuse the Independent Contractor thing and the WWE will likely get a massive influx of cash to fight something like that. Yeah I dont see AEW being in a rush to define that seeing as they signed a lot more upper tier talent. The independent contractor thing is something that needs to be looked at, its an issue in all combat sports
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Post by nihilismizhawt on Mar 7, 2022 0:19:13 GMT -5
I know what it is. I'm saying it should be illegal. You are STILL employed by the company for the 90 days, you are being paid. Also I'm pretty sure plenty of people do talk about contract stuff, just nothing on the record or official. But they fired him. He has to pretend he's not fired and can't figure out what his next paycheck is? Bad enough WWE wont release people who want to make a living doing their job, when they do release someone, that person can't look for their next job? Every single person here, do you NOT look for work when you're working for someone? You've never applied for a job when you were being paid by your job? Ridiculous how people just buy into WWE's concept of employment. You're not allowed to apply for your NEXT job after THEY FIRED YOU by LYING about you falling off the wagon.
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cjh
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Post by cjh on Mar 7, 2022 0:24:20 GMT -5
You are STILL employed by the company for the 90 days, you are being paid. Also I'm pretty sure plenty of people do talk about contract stuff, just nothing on the record or official. But they fired him. He has to pretend he's not fired and can't figure out what his next paycheck is? Bad enough WWE wont release people who want to make a living doing their job, when they do release someone, that person can't look for their next job? Every single person here, do you NOT look for work when you're working for someone? You've never applied for a job when you were being paid by your job? Ridiculous how people just buy into WWE's concept of employment. You're not allowed to apply for your NEXT job after THEY FIRED YOU by LYING about you falling off the wagon. He's being fired by WWE a few days from now. In December, WWE gave him 90 days notice that he was being let go.
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Post by nihilismizhawt on Mar 7, 2022 0:36:41 GMT -5
But they fired him. He has to pretend he's not fired and can't figure out what his next paycheck is? Bad enough WWE wont release people who want to make a living doing their job, when they do release someone, that person can't look for their next job? Every single person here, do you NOT look for work when you're working for someone? You've never applied for a job when you were being paid by your job? Ridiculous how people just buy into WWE's concept of employment. You're not allowed to apply for your NEXT job after THEY FIRED YOU by LYING about you falling off the wagon. He's being fired by WWE a few days from now. In December, WWE informed him was going to being fired in 90 days. No, he got fired and couldnt compete elsewhere for 90 days. Looking for your next job is not competing. Again, does anyone know if someone isn't allowed to look for their next job while waiting for their non-compete to expire? I have constantly seen released wrestles announce upcoming dates before their non competes expire.
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cjh
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Post by cjh on Mar 7, 2022 0:44:21 GMT -5
He's being fired by WWE a few days from now. In December, WWE informed him was going to being fired in 90 days. No, he got fired and couldnt compete elsewhere for 90 days. Looking for your next job is not competing. Again, does anyone know if someone isn't allowed to look for their next job while waiting for their non-compete to expire? I have constantly seen released wrestles announce upcoming dates before their non competes expire. No, he hasn't been fired yet. In 2020, Heath Slater appeared on Raw during his 90 days because WWE still had the right to book him. The same applies here. Any non-WWE bookings taken during the 90 days have to be approved by WWE.
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r.
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Post by r. on Mar 7, 2022 0:51:42 GMT -5
It's also ridiculous that you can't negotiate during your non-compete. It's one thing to keep you from performing. It's another to prevent you from getting your life in order for when you're able to work again. It's WWE. There is no low they won't stoop to, Then dig 10 feet under that low.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 7, 2022 1:19:37 GMT -5
It feels like any time you make a moral judgment about WWE and say something they do is wrong, someone has to chime back with "Yeah but they can" and a bunch of technicality-wringing on why things are okay while looking past the 'should' in such complaints, and a naive view of how corporate leverage and the lacking power of any individual worker has actually function with one another in saying "Well they signed a paper so that means it's cool and right".
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Mar 7, 2022 1:48:30 GMT -5
"Hey remember that whole thing with Jeff that we ultimately came out looking very bad in the end? LET'S DOUBLE DOWN BABY!"
It's a very WWE thing to do.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 7, 2022 2:05:40 GMT -5
It feels like any time you make a moral judgment about WWE and say something they do is wrong, someone has to chime back with "Yeah but they can" and a bunch of technicality-wringing on why things are okay while looking past the 'should' in such complaints, and a naive view of how corporate leverage and the lacking power of any individual worker has actually function with one another in saying "Well they signed a paper so that means it's cool and right". You're not wrong, but these are not technicalities, this is black letter law. If you want to change the law, go ahead, I'm not arguing at all the morality of it in any way, other than to say, Jeff knew what was in his contract, presumably AEW would have or should have known Jeff's legal standing and WWE is totally in the clear to pursue legal action if that has been violated. Few people shit on WWE more than I do on this board, this isn't about WWE, it's about legality, not WWE or morality.
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thehottag
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Post by thehottag on Mar 7, 2022 2:45:40 GMT -5
You can argue that WWE can sue or whatever, & we can argue about the morality of it also. But ultimately they'd have to be able to prove it has occured, which would be tricky. Jeff likely had discussions, & even blurted something out publically, but he could always put that down to 'I misspoke' or 'let me clarify what I meant'. Unless there's a piece of paper with Jeff Hardy's signature on it in AEW HQ, it would be so difficult to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Mar 7, 2022 3:48:23 GMT -5
You can argue that WWE can sue or whatever, & we can argue about the morality of it also. But ultimately they'd have to be able to prove it has occured, which would be tricky. Jeff likely had discussions, & even blurted something out publically, but he could always put that down to 'I misspoke' or 'let me clarify what I meant'. Unless there's a piece of paper with Jeff Hardy's signature on it in AEW HQ, it would be so difficult to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Jeff's clarification was that "he was setting a goal" which is complete and utter bullshit. No one says "I'm going to that other company" as a goal, especially within the context of the interview. If he said "I misspoke and meant to say I'm hopefully going to AEW" then maybe he'd be easier to believe.
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thehottag
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Post by thehottag on Mar 7, 2022 4:04:24 GMT -5
Jeff's clarification was that "he was setting a goal" which is complete and utter bullshit. No one says "I'm going to that other company" as a goal, especially within the context of the interview. If he said "I misspoke and meant to say I'm hopefully going to AEW" then maybe he'd be easier to believe. Oh, I know what he really meant, Jeff knows what he meant, absolutely everyone knew what he meant. But remember, we're not discussing right or wrong, truth or lie, it's apparently down to what's legal or not. And I don't know how WWE would necessarily be able to prove it.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Mar 7, 2022 4:12:57 GMT -5
Jeff's clarification was that "he was setting a goal" which is complete and utter bullshit. No one says "I'm going to that other company" as a goal, especially within the context of the interview. If he said "I misspoke and meant to say I'm hopefully going to AEW" then maybe he'd be easier to believe. Oh, I know what he really meant, Jeff knows what he meant, absolutely everyone knew what he meant. But remember, we're not discussing right or wrong, truth or lie, it's apparently down to what's legal or not. And I don't know how WWE would necessarily be able to prove it. That's the point of litigation, to get to discovery. If WWE wanted to take Jeff to court, it's unlikely a judge wouldn't at least let it proceed to discovery. Jeff can't just play dumb in a court of law. But I doubt WWE does anything about it.
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Post by cornettesracket on Mar 7, 2022 5:11:31 GMT -5
I’d have thought that Jeff hardy would’ve been smart enough to not talk about such things out in the open around someone filming him.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 7, 2022 5:20:11 GMT -5
I suspect this doesn't really go anywhere. If WWE is trying to cut costs and pump profits, which is their primary goal the past few years, you don't do that by incurring legal fees, especially not against someone who isn't afraid to go to court with you.
It does make me think of Big Show on Austin's podcast joking that of course he never talked to WWF before his WCW contract expired, as that would be illegal, in a way that made it very clear that 100 percent happened. This probably happened more back when WWF was sloppier about legalities, leading to stuff like the World Wildlife Fund lawsuit, I doubt it happens much these days, but I do think people probably break these rules a fair bit from time to time.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 7, 2022 6:22:37 GMT -5
Could the WWE take AEW to court over contract tampering? Sure. Could they win? It'd be an uphill battle, but with the right judge, anything is possible, but they'd probably regret it. This is a 'don't look behind the curtain' moment as they don't want someone with resources equal to theirs looking at having lawyers openly dissect the legality of the heavily onesided WWE contract to make a case, as the next time a talent tries to get out, they'll know where to poke holes.
The most we'll see are hints to try and screw with his debut, vague legal threats they have zero intent to follow through on sent the day of the show to try and make them blink, the same ***t they did to WCW.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Mar 7, 2022 6:49:16 GMT -5
Could the WWE take AEW to court over contract tampering? Sure. Could they win? It'd be an uphill battle, but with the right judge, anything is possible, but they'd probably regret it. This is a 'don't look behind the curtain' moment as they don't want someone with resources equal to theirs looking at having lawyers openly dissect the legality of the heavily onesided WWE contract to make a case, as the next time a talent tries to get out, they'll know where to poke holes. The most we'll see are hints to try and screw with his debut, vague legal threats they have zero intent to follow through on sent the day of the show to try and make them blink, the same ***t they did to WCW. Problem is, WWE isnt the only company that does this stuff. So if someone tried to look too closely at WWE's independent contracts, many other companies will start making donations to the legal team to make sure they get the right outcome, so there isnt a jurisprudence set that might impact on them. AEW likely wont really want that themselves, even if they operate differently. If this goes anywhere legal, it gets settled quickly and quietly.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Mar 7, 2022 7:24:21 GMT -5
Unless AEW is made to produce a contract signed by TK and Jeff Hardy and dated prior to the 90-day mark, I don't see this going to court or, if it does, that it goes well for WWE.
How many of us are polishing resumes and rushing off to job interviews on our days off from our regular job? Why can't independent contractors get the same treatment? A 90-day non-compete clause does _not_ restrict one from getting one's ducks in a row for a new job/contract during that period (short of signing a new contract) and there are _very_ few judges who will say that it does. WWE has allowed others to advertise their availability for bookings after the non-compete date expires.
The matter at issue, for me, would be whether Jeff was in contact with AEW _prior_ to the incident in December. If _that_ was the case, I can see WWE winning for tampering, but not if Jeff's already on his way out and simply has booking dates lined up for after the non-compete period ends.
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