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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 19, 2022 6:28:38 GMT -5
Any kind of friendship split like this just makes me sad.
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champchumpchange
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,682
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Post by champchumpchange on Oct 19, 2022 9:50:59 GMT -5
Santana ain't exactly wrong about his views on the direction of PNP
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,445
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Post by asuka007 on Oct 19, 2022 10:08:40 GMT -5
Yeah AEW had PNP for years and kept not pulling the trigger.
Why they did not do them vs. Lucha Bros when the latter were tag champs still baffles me?
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Oct 19, 2022 11:07:05 GMT -5
Santana almost fighting Kingston also didnt help in the matters, but the IWC will never bash Santana like they did with Sammy, besides this was also Kingstons 2nd backstage issue in 2022.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Oct 19, 2022 11:42:22 GMT -5
On one hand, I agree that AEW could've done more with Santana & Ortiz. On the other hand though, you can't say they did nothing with them. They were a featured act for most of their run and had major feuds with memorable moments. A lot of them were with the Inner Circle but that doesn't change the fact that they were there and did a lot. Every major act isn't going to get a crowning title winning moment and that's fine. So yes, more could've been done but I can absolutely see why Ortiz would look at the first 2-3 years and think "this is a pretty sweet gig"
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 19, 2022 12:21:58 GMT -5
On one hand, I agree that AEW could've done more with Santana & Ortiz. On the other hand though, you can't say they did nothing with them. They were a featured act for most of their run and had major feuds with memorable moments. A lot of them were with the Inner Circle but that doesn't change the fact that they were there and did a lot. Every major act isn't going to get a crowning title winning moment and that's fine. So yes, more could've been done but I can absolutely see why Ortiz would look at the first 2-3 years and think "this is a pretty sweet gig" I actually think the fact several teams including them never won them when two singles guys did to further a different feud down the line and the Hardyz were booked to win them would stick in my craw too
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Post by MrElijah on Oct 19, 2022 13:30:22 GMT -5
Yeah AEW had PNP for years and kept not pulling the trigger. Why they did not do them vs. Lucha Bros when the latter were tag champs still baffles me? Man, I just had something popped in my head: PnP vs. FTR 2 out of 3 Falls for all the gold. It sucks this is the end of the team. I know Tony is hard set in his ways but PnP could have been more.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 19, 2022 13:34:20 GMT -5
On one hand, I agree that AEW could've done more with Santana & Ortiz. On the other hand though, you can't say they did nothing with them. They were a featured act for most of their run and had major feuds with memorable moments. A lot of them were with the Inner Circle but that doesn't change the fact that they were there and did a lot. Every major act isn't going to get a crowning title winning moment and that's fine. So yes, more could've been done but I can absolutely see why Ortiz would look at the first 2-3 years and think "this is a pretty sweet gig" I actually think the fact several teams including them never won them when two singles guys did to further a different feud down the line and the Hardyz were booked to win them would stick in my craw too If you're getting featured and getting paid, I'm not sure why anyone would care.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Oct 19, 2022 14:18:09 GMT -5
DO think they and Best Friends should have been tag champs at one point during the pandemic. Those two teams really carried the division I thought during a period of time.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 19, 2022 14:55:46 GMT -5
I actually think the fact several teams including them never won them when two singles guys did to further a different feud down the line and the Hardyz were booked to win them would stick in my craw too If you're getting featured and getting paid, I'm not sure why anyone would care. Well yeah I agree but I'm not a pro wrestler, I'm with Ortiz or Regal, if you're getting work, great But the industry wouldn't have main eventers without people who don't feel that way
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Oct 19, 2022 19:57:00 GMT -5
Ortiz was happy with where he'd reached, Santana thought that he hadn't reached his peak and has been working singles because he thinks he's capable of more. Sometimes two guys just want different things in their careers.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Posts: 235,447
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 19, 2022 20:00:33 GMT -5
Ortiz was happy with where he'd reached, Santana thought that he hadn't reached his peak and has been working singles because he thinks he's capable of more. Sometimes two guys just want different things in their careers. Santana's just gotten really unlucky with it, his TERMINUS main event was hugely botched, and the ACL/MCL tear in Blood and Guts. I hope whatever he does next is successful
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,445
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Post by asuka007 on Oct 19, 2022 20:48:41 GMT -5
On one hand, I agree that AEW could've done more with Santana & Ortiz. On the other hand though, you can't say they did nothing with them. They were a featured act for most of their run and had major feuds with memorable moments. A lot of them were with the Inner Circle but that doesn't change the fact that they were there and did a lot. Every major act isn't going to get a crowning title winning moment and that's fine. So yes, more could've been done but I can absolutely see why Ortiz would look at the first 2-3 years and think "this is a pretty sweet gig" The Inner Circle thing is interesting as well because it kind of ties into the larger debate about whether being in a faction with Jericho TRULY helps “elevated you” or not? Because Jericho himself does tend to take up the lion’s share of the focus most of the time.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Oct 19, 2022 20:59:26 GMT -5
On one hand, I agree that AEW could've done more with Santana & Ortiz. On the other hand though, you can't say they did nothing with them. They were a featured act for most of their run and had major feuds with memorable moments. A lot of them were with the Inner Circle but that doesn't change the fact that they were there and did a lot. Every major act isn't going to get a crowning title winning moment and that's fine. So yes, more could've been done but I can absolutely see why Ortiz would look at the first 2-3 years and think "this is a pretty sweet gig" The Inner Circle thing is interesting as well because it kind of ties into the larger debate about whether being in a faction with Jericho TRULY helps “elevated you” or not? Because Jericho himself does tend to take up the lion’s share of the focus most of the time. Looking at the trajectory of both Inner Circle and JAS members, I think it's safe to say the association with Jericho is really good about elevating whoever he associates with. Sammy and PnP instantly became bigger stars than they were prior to the Inner Circle, and I could say the same thing about 2point0 and Daniel Garcia in the JAS. However, it does seem like no one makes it to the next level in Jericho's orbit either. PnP never got that big tag title victory to show for it, of course. Garcia would be so much better if he had officially turned on Jericho by now. And for all of Sammy's issues both on-screen and off-screen, him ending up back in Jericho's faction is one of the most obvious reset button presses you will ever see.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,445
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Post by asuka007 on Oct 19, 2022 21:09:03 GMT -5
The Inner Circle thing is interesting as well because it kind of ties into the larger debate about whether being in a faction with Jericho TRULY helps “elevated you” or not? Because Jericho himself does tend to take up the lion’s share of the focus most of the time. Looking at the trajectory of both Inner Circle and JAS members, I think it's safe to say the association with Jericho is really good about elevating whoever he associates with. Sammy and PnP instantly became bigger stars than they were prior to the Inner Circle, and I could say the same thing about 2point0 and Daniel Garcia in the JAS. However, it does seem like no one makes it to the next level in Jericho's orbit either. PnP never got that big tag title victory to show for it, of course. Garcia would be so much better if he had officially turned on Jericho by now. And for all of Sammy's issues both on-screen and off-screen, him ending up back in Jericho's faction is one of the most obvious reset button presses you will ever see. Yeah, pretty much my thoughts as well.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 20, 2022 3:19:55 GMT -5
The Inner Circle thing is interesting as well because it kind of ties into the larger debate about whether being in a faction with Jericho TRULY helps “elevated you” or not? Because Jericho himself does tend to take up the lion’s share of the focus most of the time. Looking at the trajectory of both Inner Circle and JAS members, I think it's safe to say the association with Jericho is really good about elevating whoever he associates with. Sammy and PnP instantly became bigger stars than they were prior to the Inner Circle, and I could say the same thing about 2point0 and Daniel Garcia in the JAS. However, it does seem like no one makes it to the next level in Jericho's orbit either. PnP never got that big tag title victory to show for it, of course. Garcia would be so much better if he had officially turned on Jericho by now. And for all of Sammy's issues both on-screen and off-screen, him ending up back in Jericho's faction is one of the most obvious reset button presses you will ever see. Pretty sure this is because Jericho can write his own segments, so he can use them to feature whoever he wants. But Jericho can't control the overall booking, so he can't actually elevate anyone. If Garcia turned on Jericho and moved on, there'd be nowhere for him to move on TO, because Jericho was the only reason he was on TV in the first place. Without Jericho, he's just another member of the roster, waiting and hoping someone notices he exists.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 20, 2022 13:01:06 GMT -5
Yeah, while some folks are fine with showing up and getting a check, that’s certainly not everybody, ESPECIALLY if you chose AEW cause you assumed there would be a stronger chance for upward mobility, something that was undeniably a big marketing point for AEW when they got started
Not even blaming AEW necessarily but sometimes, things don’t line up and you gotta admit when it’s time to part ways.
It’s the wrestling BUSINESS for a reason and a number of factors play a role in satisfaction with one’s career. If you really think money is all it takes, OH BUDDY, are there some stories for you out there.
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Oct 21, 2022 13:35:07 GMT -5
While I think it's a healthy thing for wrestlers to care more about the bottom line than anything else (given that promoters who won't screw you over on that, and wrestlers who are smart with their money, are... historically pretty rare), wrestling is still an artform and fans are delusional if they think every wrestler is or should be happy with collecting a paycheque while doing nothing that's interesting or creatively fulfilling.
That's not even getting into the fact that doing interesting and creatively fulfilling things often dovetails well with being able to collect bigger cheques in future.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 22, 2022 1:33:52 GMT -5
I think Santana is being foolish, since yeah, they didn't get the belts but were featured constantly in angles and big matches. Still, I get not wanting to be complacent. Shame it got ugly.
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Oak: Certified Jade Hater
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Edgier than Wayne Brady, Harder than Chinese Arithmetic, and Higher than the ratings for Blade: The Series
TOP ROPE CATCH A VIBE YEAH I SWERVE WHEN I DRIVE
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Post by Oak: Certified Jade Hater on Oct 24, 2022 14:42:15 GMT -5
I think Santana is being foolish, since yeah, they didn't get the belts but were featured constantly in angles and big matches. Still, I get not wanting to be complacent. Shame it got ugly. They were featured, yes, but there wasn’t really a story to sink their teeth into. They were in contention but never really pushed as favorites to win the tag titles, they had small feuds but never felt elevated afterwards. I don’t think Santana is foolish to treat his luck elsewhere given that the grass may not have been greener for him.
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