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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 7, 2022 11:41:57 GMT -5
I kind of wonder if WBD has such a problem with it - which just kind of seems weird anyway given Zaslav's approach to corporate structure seems to be, "Get rid of literally everyone who is not a straight white man and boast about the fact you're doing so in interviews," - then if isn't kind of stupid to then also be booking them for ROH. Like if you want to sell the brand to them it seems weird to have it be prominently featuring an act they're that heavily opposed to.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 7, 2022 12:07:17 GMT -5
I do recall an interview with AJ a number of years ago where he said something like it was a word he'd use a lot when he was young, the kind of thing that people would just call each other off-handedly during a game or something like that, but that after awhile he realized it was wrong to keep doing and made the effort not to just do what came so easily before; speaking as an ancient Millenial, I kind of know what he's referring to, it was definitely one of those words that'd just get tossed around casually as an insult in a lot of places, like how the R-word for special needs people is still used today. Whether that was genuine remorse or "hey, you're on a national stage now, don't @#$% it up", he certainly hasn't shown a proclivity toward using the word since the early 00s. I could also have some details wrong here, so I'm glad to be corrected since I'm just going by memory. Now, as to whether that has anything to do with what AJ's actual, personal feelings are concerning queer people? No clue, I've never met the guy. AJ was using the slur publically at indies in 2015 during his Bullet Club days, and it goes just beyond the use of the word itself, his promo ending "why don't you go in the back, find your life partner and get out of here before you get hurt". I fully believe that the only reason he doesn't use the term now is that unlike NJPW, WWE actually have PR reps. Can't say I'd seen that before; I was watching NJPW pretty closely during part of his run but he seemingly didn't use it there, but if he was still falling back into it on the indies that's shitty as hell. Even if it was "but I'm going for heel heat", which would be the most charitable interpretation, someone can do that without resorting to a literal slur.
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Post by hentery on Dec 7, 2022 12:30:02 GMT -5
I still have my apprehensions about their 'change' but I really think Jay just putting out a tweet like 'Hey sorry guys I don't believe you should all be shot anymore, I've really grown and shit' or in any way expressing that change publicly rather than to the co-workers it is advantageous for him to be cordial with, would be a massive jump in setting right that image. He has talked about it in interviews. From earlier this year: It's from this interview > www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR4vv_zJGnkSomething on social media would be good though. More visible, easier to share. Read his words. He’s sorry for saying it. The fact that he said it out loud brings him shame. He doesn’t say he doesn’t believe it nor does he say it was wrong. Taken at face value he’s sorry because people got upset and it affected his bottom dollar, not so much that he was wrong or doesn’t believe that. Remember religions insist they love everyone as they torture people not like them in gay away camps and other venues throughout history.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Dec 7, 2022 12:44:05 GMT -5
AJ was using the slur publically at indies in 2015 during his Bullet Club days, and it goes just beyond the use of the word itself, his promo ending "why don't you go in the back, find your life partner and get out of here before you get hurt". I fully believe that the only reason he doesn't use the term now is that unlike NJPW, WWE actually have PR reps. Can't say I'd seen that before; I was watching NJPW pretty closely during part of his run but he seemingly didn't use it there, but if he was still falling back into it on the indies that's shitty as hell. Even if it was "but I'm going for heel heat", which would be the most charitable interpretation, someone can do that without resorting to a literal slur. Some people are dumb but also smart enough to keep their bigotry in check if their money depends on it. AJ seems to have kept his mouth shut since signing with WWE. Jake Hager was being openly transphobic literally days before debuting in AEW but since then I think he's kept himself in check too. I think the Briscoes would probably be the same. Only they will know if they truly believe what they said but if they got a chance to work in AEW I think they'd make sure they're on their best behavior and wouldn't be saying any offensive stuff in public.
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Post by lucas_lee on Dec 7, 2022 13:05:07 GMT -5
Can't say I'd seen that before; I was watching NJPW pretty closely during part of his run but he seemingly didn't use it there, but if he was still falling back into it on the indies that's shitty as hell. Even if it was "but I'm going for heel heat", which would be the most charitable interpretation, someone can do that without resorting to a literal slur. Some people are dumb but also smart enough to keep their bigotry in check if their money depends on it. AJ seems to have kept his mouth shut since signing with WWE. Jake Hager was being openly transphobic literally days before debuting in AEW but since then I think he's kept himself in check too. I think the Briscoes would probably be the same. Only they will know if they truly believe what they said but if they got a chance to work in AEW I think they'd make sure they're on their best behavior and wouldn't be saying any offensive stuff in public. A lot of indy workers are vouching for them. I dont think EFFY (I know he's not the emperor of the LBGTQ community) would vouch for them if they didn't change. I think they've changed and could keep their mouths shut in AEW. However the initial tweet that Jay said was a really bad look and with anti Semitism and homophobia on the rise. I'd see the executives point of not using them.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 7, 2022 16:30:57 GMT -5
Some people are dumb but also smart enough to keep their bigotry in check if their money depends on it. AJ seems to have kept his mouth shut since signing with WWE. Jake Hager was being openly transphobic literally days before debuting in AEW but since then I think he's kept himself in check too. I think the Briscoes would probably be the same. Only they will know if they truly believe what they said but if they got a chance to work in AEW I think they'd make sure they're on their best behavior and wouldn't be saying any offensive stuff in public. A lot of indy workers are vouching for them. I dont think EFFY (I know he's not the emperor of the LBGTQ community) would vouch for them if they didn't change. I think they've changed and could keep their mouths shut in AEW. However the initial tweet that Jay said was a really bad look and with anti Semitism and homophobia on the rise. I'd see the executives point of not using them. It was also the flag incident at that show in the UK that caused a big issue. But yeah no clue who all it is with WBD but apparently they will not budge on the Briscoes
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Dec 7, 2022 16:40:49 GMT -5
The cynic in me can't help but think that the execs care less about the homophobia than about the homophobia coinciding with the Briscoes just looking and presenting as aggressively lower-class and Southern in a way that's associated with bigotry - never mind how many bigots are "respectable" middle-class Northerners or rich people or what have you. Like if they just cleaned up nicely, that would matter.
It depresses me that that's probably the difference between a Jay Briscoe and a Jake Hager to the people making these decisions, but I can't help but think it's a significant part of it. Even if the argument for Jay being the worse of the two is a strong one, I feel like the superficial classism is more likely to make the difference given who's making the decision.
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Post by eJm on Dec 7, 2022 16:53:27 GMT -5
The cynic in me can't help but think that the execs care less about the homophobia than about the homophobia coinciding with the Briscoes just looking and presenting as aggressively lower-class and Southern in a way that's associated with bigotry - never mind how many bigots are "respectable" middle-class Northerners or rich people or what have you. Like if they just cleaned up nicely, that would matter. It depresses me that that's probably the difference between a Jay Briscoe and a Jake Hager to the people making these decisions, but I can't help but think it's a significant part of it. Even if the argument for Jay being the worse of the two is a strong one, I feel like the superficial classism is more likely to make the difference given who's making the decision. I think you're giving executives a bit too much credit here, especially considering Nick Gage was allowed to come on and have a whole deathmatch with, like, zero problems and he's actually got a criminal record (which, I should say, he did his time and hasn't done anything since getting out which is what the system was designed for so might have helped in his favor). It seemed more like someone got wind of the tweets and went "We don't want to deal with that". Whether that's fair or not is up to you but that seems more the MO of those people.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Dec 7, 2022 17:23:02 GMT -5
IMO it still probably has more to do with saying he'd murder anyone teaching kids that being gay is normal
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Dec 7, 2022 18:28:04 GMT -5
IMO it still probably has more to do with saying he'd murder anyone teaching kids that being gay is normal Yeah thats the Tweet I'm alluding to. Even if they made amends with how much hateful rhetoric is being said about the LBGTQ. That tweet is gonna be brought up and used against them and justifiably so.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 7, 2022 22:10:11 GMT -5
Well they can sure have Dem Boys on ROH PPV though apparently
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 7, 2022 22:10:50 GMT -5
Well they can sure have Dem Boys on ROH PPV though apparently And mention them on television What they're allowed to apparently do and not do is quite interesting.
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Post by FinalGwen on Dec 7, 2022 22:16:54 GMT -5
Honestly if your only choice is to send out the Gunn Club to deliver messages for the assholes you can't have on screen, maybe book something/anything else.
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Post by XIII on Dec 7, 2022 22:27:02 GMT -5
If you’re going to mention them you may as well just have them on tv. If people don’t know who they are they’ll Google and maybe see a reference to those tweets anyways. It’s the same thing really. 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 7, 2022 22:38:39 GMT -5
Honestly if your only choice is to send out the Gunn Club to deliver messages for the assholes you can't have on screen, maybe book something/anything else. That wasn't the only choice, they've made and advertised Briscoes matches before, they just wanted The Gunns to continue to be ever present dicks about it
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 7, 2022 22:41:53 GMT -5
Well they can sure have Dem Boys on ROH PPV though apparently And mention them on television What they're allowed to apparently do and not do is quite interesting. It's so weird because they can appear on Bleacher Report which is owned by WBD nut not TBS/TNT.
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Post by FinalGwen on Dec 7, 2022 22:46:35 GMT -5
Honestly if your only choice is to send out the Gunn Club to deliver messages for the assholes you can't have on screen, maybe book something/anything else. That wasn't the only choice, they've made and advertised Briscoes matches before, they just wanted The Gunns to continue to be ever present dicks about it The point more being 'gee imagine if they booked literally any other tag team (either one of the many underutilised teams on their own roster, or the many talented teams up and down the country that haven't got the chance to appear on the big stage and haven't been mired in controversy) so they could actually build matches on tv without having to use proxies'.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 7, 2022 22:52:37 GMT -5
That wasn't the only choice, they've made and advertised Briscoes matches before, they just wanted The Gunns to continue to be ever present dicks about it The point more being 'gee imagine if they booked literally any other tag team (either one of the many underutilised teams on their own roster, or the many talented teams up and down the country that haven't got the chance to appear on the big stage and haven't been mired in controversy) so they could actually build matches on tv without having to use proxies'. I get your sentiment, but this match announcement has genuinely convinced people to buy Final Battle by itself The Briscoes vs FTR is a draw, The Briscoes themselves may still be a draw despite how much that might make people upset, but the amount of people I'm seeing sold on Final Battle because of this match when it was skippable before is slightly eye opening. Especially given it was just announced. I said it in the Final Battle thread but it's genuinely gonna be something WBD should monitor because the Buyrate's definitely gonna see a spike.
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Dec 8, 2022 0:48:56 GMT -5
I feel like AJ wouldn’t be on UUDD as often as he is if he was truly a homophobe, I don’t think Woods and his friends would stand for it.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 8, 2022 0:57:28 GMT -5
I get that it was mostly out of necessity since WBD won't let the Briscoes on the show, but I couldn't just help but ask, "what kayfabe reasoning is there for the Ass Boys to do the bidding of The Briscoes?"
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