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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 2, 2023 22:24:55 GMT -5
Both can be true, but I highly disagree about the latter It was good at one point, but the justification for this title reign continuing on has gotten less and less the longer it has Drew was a good time Sami was a better time Cody was THE time And now they have to make another belt just for other guys to win a "world title" because it's never actually the time for Roman. I don't agree in any metric that keeping the belt on Roman has been good booking at this point nor are the ends actively justifying the means. Business is soaring with Roman as the top dog. I understand some people don't care about that, which is fine. I just don't buy the line of thinking of it being bad booking when the business is still hot. Again, I would have had Cody win, but that doesn't mean keeping the title on Roman is bad. Weekly TV numbers are insanely high built on the back of Sami Zayn and Cody Rhodes. They did their biggest number in years a few weeks ago thanks to Jey/Sami. Roman is a part of this but business is booming with him rarely around. Business is hot but it could be hotter if you put the title on one of your two super hot babyfaces. You could advertise Cody/Brock for the Word Title in Puerto Rico. It's not the only way.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,700
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Post by Chiral on May 2, 2023 22:30:03 GMT -5
It's a taste thing but I feel like if Roman WAS my number one guy I'd be beyond bored with how he's presented, like I can't enjoy a character that faces so little opposition for so long with so little variance in scenes.
(I know I've posted some variant of this 8,923,265,234 times during the eleventy trillion years Reigns has been champion but I feel like Mugatu with Tribal Chief Roman lmao)
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mc74
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,410
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Post by mc74 on May 2, 2023 23:33:51 GMT -5
It's a taste thing but I feel like if Roman WAS my number one guy I'd be beyond bored with how he's presented, like I can't enjoy a character that faces so little opposition for so long with so little variance in scenes. (I know I've posted some variant of this 8,923,265,234 times during the eleventy trillion years Reigns has been champion but I feel like Mugatu with Tribal Chief Roman lmao) Loved his work as a heel and believe it to be his best in WWE, but having said that, there comes a time where a particular storyline has to come to a close in order to progress things forward, otherwise the angle ends up becoming stale. That's how I feel about the Bloodline angle and Roman's reign. They've done everything there is to be done with it, so there's really no point in keeping it going when it's run its course.
They want to break records with Roman's reign so they can use it to justify him being one of the all time greats, but they're only booking themselves in circles. Sure enough, Roman's a great talent and I acknowledge that, but is there any need to go this far to cement it? I don't think so.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on May 3, 2023 0:26:29 GMT -5
It's a taste thing but I feel like if Roman WAS my number one guy I'd be beyond bored with how he's presented, like I can't enjoy a character that faces so little opposition for so long with so little variance in scenes. (I know I've posted some variant of this 8,923,265,234 times during the eleventy trillion years Reigns has been champion but I feel like Mugatu with Tribal Chief Roman lmao) Loved his work as a heel and believe it to be his best in WWE, but having said that, there comes a time where a particular storyline has to come to a close in order to progress things forward, otherwise the angle ends up becoming stale. That's how I feel about the Bloodline angle and Roman's reign. They've done everything there is to be done with it, so there's really no point in keeping it going when it's run its course. They want to break records with Roman's reign so they can use it to justify him being one of the all time greats, but they're only booking themselves in circles. Sure enough, Roman's a great talent and I acknowledge that, but is there any need to go this far to cement it? I don't think so.
And the “all time great” argument kinda falls flat when a lot of Roman’s defenses end with some form of bullshittery benefitting him and he hasn’t really had a true “decisive” win in quite some time.
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Post by firsttimelongtime on May 3, 2023 10:15:23 GMT -5
Business is soaring with Roman as the top dog. I understand some people don't care about that, which is fine. I just don't buy the line of thinking of it being bad booking when the business is still hot. Again, I would have had Cody win, but that doesn't mean keeping the title on Roman is bad. Weekly TV numbers are insanely high built on the back of Sami Zayn and Cody Rhodes. They did their biggest number in years a few weeks ago thanks to Jey/Sami. Roman is a part of this but business is booming with him rarely around. Business is hot but it could be hotter if you put the title on one of your two super hot babyfaces. You could advertise Cody/Brock for the Word Title in Puerto Rico. It's not the only way. Backlash is completely sold out so I don't know how Cody/Brock being for the World Title would increase to more business. They maxed out their ticket sales. Again, I would have had Cody win. But we have no idea if business would be hotter. And let us not forget that Sami and Cody were chasing Roman, not doing big numbers by themselves. Especially Sami, whose entire story was built on the approval of Roman.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,802
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Post by schma on May 3, 2023 10:38:16 GMT -5
I'm one of those people who was completely checked out after mania. I've glanced at results a couple times, perused some threads here and that's about it. When it comes to Roman I have zero interest because let's face it, no one is beating him until Mania or possibly longer. It doesn't matter how much they build anyone up. The Roman match is wrestle for a while, ref bump, interference from the bloodline, challenger fights them off, pins Roman for a 3,4 or 5 count but it doesn't matter because the ref is still out. More bloodline interference and then finally a ref runs out after several minutes, lol Roman wins.
That's it. That's every Roman match for the past couple years and for the foreseeable future. Despite having a reign where he cheats so much that it makes the Honkeytonk Man look honourable, he's treated as a world killer that no one can beat. Really though, when is the last time he won clean, without cheating.
So yeah, I may be in the minority but I am just done with Roman. If anything is happening with the Bloodline it feels like a snail pace but that's okay because I stopped caring after Mania. The story was Sami and Cody triumph, Roman faces an actual bump in the road for the first time in years, how does he handle that? Now it's just lol Roman wins. They can spin it any way they want, but they made an entirely new belt just to drive home that lol Roman wins.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on May 3, 2023 10:39:13 GMT -5
Weekly TV numbers are insanely high built on the back of Sami Zayn and Cody Rhodes. They did their biggest number in years a few weeks ago thanks to Jey/Sami. Roman is a part of this but business is booming with him rarely around. Business is hot but it could be hotter if you put the title on one of your two super hot babyfaces. You could advertise Cody/Brock for the Word Title in Puerto Rico. It's not the only way. Backlash is completely sold out so I don't know how Cody/Brock being for the World Title would increase to more business. They maxed out their ticket sales. Again, I would have had Cody win. But we have no idea if business would be hotter. And let us not forget that Sami and Cody were chasing Roman, not doing big numbers by themselves. Especially Sami, whose entire story was built on the approval of Roman. Cody/Brock for the title would’ve given Backlash a bit more lustre, esp. with the world champion being on the actual card.
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on May 3, 2023 12:11:11 GMT -5
Still think that Sami should have beaten Reigns for the Universal Title on Night 1, and then Cody beats Reigns for the WWE Title on Night 2. Yeah. They had 2 nights of WrestleMania, 2 World Titles, and 2 viable contenders. It was that easy to book.
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Post by sunnytaker on May 3, 2023 12:18:16 GMT -5
i just like the loop of
"hey let's unify the titles"
"hmm people aren;t happy there's only 1 world championship match with two shows and the champ doesn;t wrestle much."
"hey let's introduce a new title without making the guy who has both lose either so no one gets a bump."
"hey we have two champs now and people wonder which one is the better champ..."
"hey let's unify the titles!"
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Post by eJm on May 3, 2023 15:36:51 GMT -5
But we have no idea if business would be hotter. And we’ll never know so the point of bringing that up is moot. My day might have been better if I had toast rather than cereal but there’s zero way of knowing right now. The wider point is that what would be the real harm if they did? There’s no real proof many people make much difference so if it somehow does Jinder Mahal numbers, you can backtrack. And saying Cody’s ratings have to do with Roman ignores the bumps Raw got at the start of last year, bumps they hadn’t gotten during the Road to WrestleMania for a while, all off hints Cody was going to show up at some point and the way they hyped him up on TV was having the audience believe that former world champion and the only man Roman Reigns hasn’t beaten during his reign Seth Rollins somehow wouldn’t be booker for WrestleMania.
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Post by Starshine on May 4, 2023 6:35:10 GMT -5
Appropos, but Lapsed Fan released a new episode of their Hogan in TNA journey and it covers their decision to not give Bobby Roode the title win at BFG. Basically everyone involved agrees it was the wrong decision and you can tell how deflated they were over it.
There's more examples than not of promoters missing that perfect moment, and never being able to capture that same energy again.
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King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,764
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Post by King Devitt on May 4, 2023 8:41:07 GMT -5
It's a taste thing but I feel like if Roman WAS my number one guy I'd be beyond bored with how he's presented, like I can't enjoy a character that faces so little opposition for so long with so little variance in scenes. (I know I've posted some variant of this 8,923,265,234 times during the eleventy trillion years Reigns has been champion but I feel like Mugatu with Tribal Chief Roman lmao) I feel like Mugatu in 99.9999999% of my life.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,480
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on May 4, 2023 12:20:40 GMT -5
Oh, to be a fly on the wall during the booking meeting it was decided that Roman retains.
Vinny McM: Cody Rhodes! My man! Great comeback and Rumble win! Caw-dy R: Thanks boss! I appreciate it. VMcM: And now you're in the Main Event of...WrrrrrrrrrrrESTLEMAAAANIA! CR: Yeah, it feels great. I was thinking we could do this, that, and the other thing and then I win with the Cross Rhoades. I was also wondering who my first challenger at Backlash will be? VMcM: Win? Challenger? Hah-Hah! Roman wins and you're gonna be made a total Bitch!
*Sad Cody noices*
VMcM: Such good shit, pal! Paul! Bring me another steak wrap. Kevin! Where's the ketshup?
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Post by mrtuesday on May 4, 2023 12:47:39 GMT -5
It was such an easy lay-up that you didn't think it was impossible to f*** up, but WWE has that magical way of still surprising you sometimes. Plus what's so funny is if they didn't ultimately want to go with Rhodes, they'd accidentally made Sami Zayn a completely suitable replacement, and they didn't go with him either. It's just full steam forward with the Reigns train, problem is no one seems to know where it's going. They know where it's going. The same place it's always been going since day 1. The one true endgame of the Tribal Chief title run. The Rock. Roman will remain champion until Dwayne decides to show up. And not one day sooner. I knew it the moment Roman started the Tribal Chief stuff. It's time everyone here accepts that. It should have been Drew. It should have been Sami. It should have been Cody. But none of them are The Rock. And considering business is at an all-time high, they have no reason to deviate from the plan.
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SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
Jamaican WCF Crazy!
Half Man-Half Amazing
Posts: 27,214
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Post by SAJ Forth on May 6, 2023 12:42:22 GMT -5
i just like the loop of "hey let's unify the titles" "hmm people aren;t happy there's only 1 world championship match with two shows and the champ doesn;t wrestle much." "hey let's introduce a new title without making the guy who has both lose either so no one gets a bump." "hey we have two champs now and people wonder which one is the better champ..." "hey let's unify the titles!" Then watch them bring back the WWECW Championship.
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Post by wildojinx on May 6, 2023 14:28:18 GMT -5
It was such an easy lay-up that you didn't think it was impossible to f*** up, but WWE has that magical way of still surprising you sometimes. Plus what's so funny is if they didn't ultimately want to go with Rhodes, they'd accidentally made Sami Zayn a completely suitable replacement, and they didn't go with him either. It's just full steam forward with the Reigns train, problem is no one seems to know where it's going. They know where it's going. The same place it's always been going since day 1. The one true endgame of the Tribal Chief title run. The Rock. Roman will remain champion until Dwayne decides to show up. And not one day sooner. I knew it the moment Roman started the Tribal Chief stuff. It's time everyone here accepts that. It should have been Drew. It should have been Sami. It should have been Cody. But none of them are The Rock. And considering business is at an all-time high, they have no reason to deviate from the plan. And once Rock wins, they'll set up for the next challenger, Austin. Not Theory, but Steve. Who cares how lousy it may be, it'll get a nostalgia pop.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 6, 2023 15:20:20 GMT -5
It’ll be just as good when he wins months down the road, on his second or third try.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on May 7, 2023 2:53:44 GMT -5
Imagine if tonight's match had Cody defending the belts against Lesnar. Would have made the match that much better than it already was.
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King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,764
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Post by King Devitt on May 7, 2023 4:46:29 GMT -5
Imagine if tonight's match had Cody defending the belts against Lesnar. Would have made the match that much better than it already was. I wrote the same exact thing down while watching. it would've taken the match to the next level b/c you know that there might be a possibility they'd make Brock champ again. He's a great challenger to a title b/c he always feels like a threat. Another missed opportunity. But at least Lesnar getting color and the entire match not grinding to a halt definitely added to it.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 8, 2023 5:39:41 GMT -5
It was such an easy lay-up that you didn't think it was impossible to f*** up, but WWE has that magical way of still surprising you sometimes. Plus what's so funny is if they didn't ultimately want to go with Rhodes, they'd accidentally made Sami Zayn a completely suitable replacement, and they didn't go with him either. It's just full steam forward with the Reigns train, problem is no one seems to know where it's going. They know where it's going. The same place it's always been going since day 1. The one true endgame of the Tribal Chief title run. The Rock. Roman will remain champion until Dwayne decides to show up. And not one day sooner. I knew it the moment Roman started the Tribal Chief stuff. It's time everyone here accepts that. It should have been Drew. It should have been Sami. It should have been Cody. But none of them are The Rock. And considering business is at an all-time high, they have no reason to deviate from the plan. And as I've stated... Rock vs. Roman doesn't need the titles and honestly being for the titles doesn't even really help teh match at all. Hell have Roman lose the titles to Cody (or the one... whatever) and Roman start claiming he's still the Tribal Chief and something about being the greatest leader the family has ever had... and boom Rock.
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