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Post by Zombie Mod on Jun 22, 2023 8:11:53 GMT -5
"here grab my arm, pull me towards the ropes where I'll turn just in time to hit the ropes with my back and I'll run blindly back at you without attempting to hit you with a move" a basic move you see in pretty much every wrestling match that should instantly pop any bubble of disbelief you had about wrestling.
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
He has the looks of Andre the Giant, and the strength of Barry Windham. Not to mention he's a hero to a few armadillos, a kangaroo and a small herd of bison.
Posts: 5,319
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Jun 22, 2023 8:11:57 GMT -5
Speaking of Omega, the Terminator Tope. Not that the dive itself is bad, but the setup where he slaps out the Terminator 2 theme beat on the mat, the audience joins in, he sloooowly stands up like Arnold, and hits both ropes before the dive, all while his opponent apparently has no idea what's coming.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,735
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Post by Bo Rida on Jun 22, 2023 8:13:31 GMT -5
It's not a particular move, it's just how well it's executed. If a wrestler has to do one or more of the following: 1) stand in one spot and wait to be 'hit' 2) hold themselves in a position to be 'hit' 3) help the opponent into a position where they can be 'hit' If I can see the 'positioning', the illusion is gone. A good example: Jerry Lynn (great wrestler, BTW) does this thing where someone on the ring apron tries to shoulder block through the ropes, and Lynn jumps up and catches them with a leg drop as they go through. With perfect timing it looks amazing. It rarely has perfect timing. To extend on this idea, any signature move that starts as a counter. Why would anyone try to punch/clothesline John Cena after two shoulderblocks? Have they never watched a Cena match? Do your film study! Yeah this is why I didn't like Hogan. I can deal with the stupidity of hulking up but not with his opponents reacting by throwing punches. Try another move or get out of there, why do you think another punch will work?
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Post by cassonova on Jun 22, 2023 8:28:19 GMT -5
I am able to suspend a lot for most moves (outside of group dives and multiple bounce jumps), it's the situation that gets me.
Selling. I know this is a sport built on drama, but there's no drama without a proper sell. Like, any piledriver should be a match ender unless you took your sweet time to pin. Darby Allin takes moves to the ring steps, and we're supposed to believe my back-bump finish is going to put him down (they did something similar with Mustafa Ali in 2017)? And the "OMG! I can't believe they kicked out of that!" despite not even being a finisher 1/3 of the time.
I'm old. Give me my Werther's and I'll calm down.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Jun 22, 2023 8:58:12 GMT -5
I am able to suspend a lot for most moves (outside of group dives and multiple bounce jumps), it's the situation that gets me. Selling. I know this is a sport built on drama, but there's no drama without a proper sell. Like, any piledriver should be a match ender unless you took your sweet time to pin. Darby Allin takes moves to the ring steps, and we're supposed to believe my back-bump finish is going to put him down (they did something similar with Mustafa Ali in 2017)? And the "OMG! I can't believe they kicked out of that!" despite not even being a finisher 1/3 of the time. I'm old. Give me my Werther's and I'll calm down. Another "situation" one: When a match is sold on "they know each other inside out" and then the match is just both guys getting their shit in as per usual. ETA: Also: wrestlers who don't change things up when wrestling a guy outside their wheelhouse... when say Rey Mysterio wrestles a giant and expects stuff like a flying cross-body to work on them. Jericho was actually good at this, when wrestling a bigger guy he's emphasise his agility and high flying, against smaller guys he'd throw in power moves.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 22, 2023 9:41:15 GMT -5
To extend on this idea, any signature move that starts as a counter. Why would anyone try to punch/clothesline John Cena after two shoulderblocks? Have they never watched a Cena match? Do your film study! Yeah this is why I didn't like Hogan. I can deal with the stupidity of hulking up but not with his opponents reacting by throwing punches. Try another move or get out of there, why do you think another punch will work? Hulking Up, powerbombing Kidman, catching RVD's chair...
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Post by sdoyle7798 on Jun 22, 2023 11:52:14 GMT -5
I understand that there is stupid shit all over wrestling that has no real logic and should never work. I get that.
Personally, I just don't like when cooperation is obvious. We all know it's a teamwork thing. But the watching the guy coming at you or holding their hands while they jump around are things that take me out of the moment.
And yes, that includes Old School. Maybe the arm wringer he does before hand is supposed to cause enough pain or concern that his shoulder/elbow may get injured that the guy can't focus to pull him off...except for when he does get pulled off.
Add me to the the people who also dislike the "it's always the same" group of moves. This is things like the punches after a Hulk up, the wild swing after the shoulder blocks from Cena, trying to powebombing Kidman... there has to be ways to change that up.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2023 13:06:52 GMT -5
I am able to suspend a lot for most moves (outside of group dives and multiple bounce jumps), it's the situation that gets me. Selling. I know this is a sport built on drama, but there's no drama without a proper sell. Like, any piledriver should be a match ender unless you took your sweet time to pin. Darby Allin takes moves to the ring steps, and we're supposed to believe my back-bump finish is going to put him down (they did something similar with Mustafa Ali in 2017)? And the "OMG! I can't believe they kicked out of that!" despite not even being a finisher 1/3 of the time. I'm old. Give me my Werther's and I'll calm down. Another "situation" one: When a match is sold on "they know each other inside out" and then the match is just both guys getting their shit in as per usual. ETA: Also: wrestlers who don't change things up when wrestling a guy outside their wheelhouse... when say Rey Mysterio wrestles a giant and expects stuff like a flying cross-body to work on them. Jericho was actually good at this, when wrestling a bigger guy he's emphasise his agility and high flying, against smaller guys he'd throw in power moves.
I would love a match between 2 tag partners or stablemates or allies or something where they literally have to do something different because their opponent's planned for it.
Like... imagine Daniel Garcia vs Sammy Guevara and Sammy has to try to be the mat wizard while Garcia acts like a pure brawler, or something.
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,778
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Jun 22, 2023 13:27:10 GMT -5
I would love a match between 2 tag partners or stablemates or allies or something where they literally have to do something different because their opponent's planned for it. Like... imagine Daniel Garcia vs Sammy Guevara and Sammy has to try to be the mat wizard while Garcia acts like a pure brawler, or something.
I picked up the ROH DVD set of the Joe/Punk rivalry, it had their two 60-minute time limit draws, the second of those was "they both prepared for each other by watching all the tapes and had counters for everything". Fantastic matches.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jun 22, 2023 16:03:41 GMT -5
Personally, I just don't like when cooperation is obvious. We all know it's a teamwork thing. But the watching the guy coming at you or holding their hands while they jump around are things that take me out of the moment. Yeah I'm in the same boat. There is a particular Alex Shelley v Chris Sabin match (Genesis 2009) that has always stuck with me because it looked so overly choreographed even by wrestling standards. It didn't look at all like they were trying to hurt each other. They were just helping each other through all these complicated spots. Some Young Bucks/Lucha Bros matches fall into that category for me too. I'd gladly take a less athletically impressive move if it looks like you're actually trying to do damage to your opponent.
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Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,200
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Post by Rave on Jun 22, 2023 16:26:51 GMT -5
How about that bit where people dawdle outside the ring for almost the entire count then rushing into the ring to keep from being counted out? I know they think it builds drama, but it's incredibly overused and needs to stop happening for a good long while.
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Post by dirtyoldman on Jun 22, 2023 16:37:59 GMT -5
Ladder and table matches in general.
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Post by sungod2020 on Jun 22, 2023 16:50:56 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe no matter how strong you are, you can easily hip toss someone. That requires the receipient to jump up in the air and do a summersault to make it look crisp.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,640
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Post by XIII on Jun 22, 2023 17:01:35 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe no matter how strong you are, you can easily hip toss someone. That requires the receipient to jump up in the air and do a summersault to make it look crisp. It’s a bastardized judo throw. If they did it properly you can very easily toss someone over like that. Pro wrestlers do it the half baked pro wrestling way. Ronda actually tosses girls judo style.
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Post by BorneAgain on Jun 22, 2023 18:23:10 GMT -5
Odd example, but Big Show's punch always bothered me as a move. If such a basic thing can win the match for you, then your match either looks fake or you look like an idiot for not using it within the first 30 seconds.
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Post by sungod2020 on Jun 22, 2023 18:33:33 GMT -5
Odd example, but Big Show's punch always bothered me as a move. If such a basic thing can win the match for you, then your match either looks fake or you look like an idiot for not using it within the first 30 seconds. Well like any finisher you could say it's most effective when you wear them down before you hit it. TBF though, just being put in a match against the Big Show can be seen as hokey given his size advantage, but as wrestling fans we tend to buy into it.
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Post by JasonVoorhees1988 on Jun 22, 2023 18:55:19 GMT -5
None.
Even the wacky shit in CHIKARA worked for me, because in that universe, invisible grenades and sleep potions was a thing.
It's wrestling.
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fg
Unicron
Gaming
Posts: 3,054
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Post by fg on Jun 22, 2023 20:18:52 GMT -5
Odd example, but Big Show's punch always bothered me as a move. If such a basic thing can win the match for you, then your match either looks fake or you look like an idiot for not using it within the first 30 seconds. Well like any finisher you could say it's most effective when you wear them down before you hit it. TBF though, just being put in a match against the Big Show can be seen as hokey given his size advantage, but as wrestling fans we tend to buy into it. At SSeries 2014, Big Show Korda Marc Henry and pinned him in the first 30 seconds of the match. Why couldn’t he do that to the rest of Henry’s team?
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Post by Psicofreak667 on Jun 22, 2023 20:42:53 GMT -5
I'm going to be a minority on this one, but Samoa Joe's "nope" walk-out-of-the-way-of-a-high-flying-move.
See, I know pro wrestling's stupid. MMA fighters can duck haymakers and high kicks that take a fraction of a second to throw. If you count that time Anthony Pettis hit a flying rebound kick off the cage, a high flying move has worked precisely once in the history of MMA. If you don't count it, never.
I know just walking out of the way is how someone would respond to a missile dropkick if one were thrown in a real fight. Professional wrestling may involve the voluntary suspension of disbelief, but it still needs to make some kind of internal sense. If Samoa Joe can just walk out of the way of a flying opponent sometimes, everyone ought to be able to all the time.
Plus, I'm waiting for Samoa Joe to walk out of the way of a flying attack only for it to turn out that the opponent was throwing a Flying Nothing, lands on their feet and kicks him in the back of his overconfident head.
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Post by sdoyle7798 on Jun 22, 2023 23:20:41 GMT -5
None. Even the wacky shit in CHIKARA worked for me, because in that universe, invisible grenades and sleep potions was a thing. It's wrestling. Well, I mean in a fed like CHIKARA, you know that’s part of it But I’m your typical fed, that stuff would look like ass.
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