J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 2,010
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Post by J. Hova on Jun 24, 2023 18:57:31 GMT -5
At the most basic level, a punch. As I've said before in other threads, I don't ever remember a time where I didn't at least suspect that wrestling was a work. I'm sure there was a brief time, but I grew up when Mike Tyson was the baddest man on this or any other planet. Mike Tyson in his prime was about 5'10" and maybe 210 and knocking people colder than a banker's heart. And he was taking months between fights. Meanwhile, we have 250 to 350 pound guys punching each other night after night without so much as a black eye or broken tooth.
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malloc
Team Rocket
asian cookbook
Posts: 752
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Post by malloc on Jun 24, 2023 20:03:41 GMT -5
I am another who is going to say everyone standing round like bowling pins. It happens so often. It no long inspires awe of any kind.
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ERON
Hank Scorpio
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Post by ERON on Jun 24, 2023 21:16:29 GMT -5
The only ones that bother me are the ones where the opponent has to stay in an unnatural position for a ridiculously long amount of time while the wrestler sets up the move.
The two that immediately come to mind for me are Del Rio's corner stomp that a couple of people have already mentioned, and the one Tito Santana used to do where he would punch his opponent in the gut and they would just stand there hunched over holding their abdomen for an hour while Tito ran the ropes to set up the shot to the back of the head.
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Post by dablueboy on Jun 25, 2023 6:14:31 GMT -5
Trish’s Stratusfaction bulldog, the only one in recent memory to counter the spring off the ropes was Mercedes/Sasha in the first women’s Rumble to eliminate her.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,131
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 25, 2023 6:30:21 GMT -5
To extend on this idea, any signature move that starts as a counter. Why would anyone try to punch/clothesline John Cena after two shoulderblocks? Have they never watched a Cena match? Do your film study! Yeah this is why I didn't like Hogan. I can deal with the stupidity of hulking up but not with his opponents reacting by throwing punches. Try another move or get out of there, why do you think another punch will work? This is one of the reasons I like Orange Cassidy. He does the hands in the pockets and slow kicks, comedy spots which should be like a weak version of those. But there are tons of variations, he succeeds and hits a move, or gets countered, or then he counters THAT. He fails, they grab his hands, or do something else and it ends up being a new sequence. He has so many places to go from that starting point and uses all those opportunities to be creative.
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malloc
Team Rocket
asian cookbook
Posts: 752
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Post by malloc on Jun 25, 2023 10:00:50 GMT -5
The worm was so stupid and it used to annoy me when Too Cool would win with stupid move because I hated Too Cool and stupid move.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jun 27, 2023 8:26:17 GMT -5
Nothing makes me groan like the suicide dive spot. Overused and makes no sense anyway.
If my opponent is stupid enough to dive on me from inside the ring, why the hell and I trying to catch him?
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,131
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 27, 2023 8:50:13 GMT -5
Nothing makes me groan like the suicide dive spot. Overused and makes no sense anyway. If my opponent is stupid enough to dive on me from inside the ring, why the hell and I trying to catch him? If done right, you see them at the last minute, they're going to hit you anyway but if you grab them you might be able to control the fall a bit to be less damaging or even move them to break your fall and hurt them instead.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2023 8:56:17 GMT -5
Nothing makes me groan like the suicide dive spot. Overused and makes no sense anyway. If my opponent is stupid enough to dive on me from inside the ring, why the hell and I trying to catch him? If done right, you see them at the last minute, they're going to hit you anyway but if you grab them you might be able to control the fall a bit to be less damaging or even move them to break your fall and hurt them instead.
That's why Darby's got the best suicide dive in the business.
Motherf***er throws himself at his opponents like he really does have a deathwish, and his opponents don't catch him as much as he just bounces off them.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,526
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jun 27, 2023 10:42:56 GMT -5
Outside interference has become so convoluted in recent years, often requiring the referee to turn his back to the action for 20 seconds or more for the wrestlers to set it up. I know it happened back in the day too (especially with the Mouth of the South) but for the most part it was somewhat believable and relatively quick.
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Hypnosis
T
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Post by Hypnosis on Jun 27, 2023 11:26:30 GMT -5
Outside interference has become so convoluted in recent years, often requiring the referee to turn his back to the action for 20 seconds or more for the wrestlers to set it up. I know it happened back in the day too (especially with the Mouth of the South) but for the most part it was somewhat believable and relatively quick. I really wish the female faces in AEW would bring back-up for their matches because it just makes them look stupid when they don't against the DMD Squad (when they were heels), or The Outcasts.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2023 11:41:08 GMT -5
Once it got spammed, yea, it definately was like "OK, we know this shit is staged, but can you at least pretend like some of this is at least organic?" Similarly, pinning attempt trades that take waaaaay too long to execute. I know not every pin is necessarily meant to end a match, that you're also trying to fatigue your opponent, but while Malenko and Benoit could do those trades really quickly, it got frustrating seeing green wrestlers trying and failing to do it without it being slow as molasses when WWE got it into their head to have one of those exchanges virtually weekly. All one has to do is watch an AZM match and then watch just about anyone else try and replicate her counter wrestling and it is astounding how slow everyone else looks in comparison unless you are like SLK. But it also is not just about the speed it is that combined with how smooth it looks like neither has to slow down for the other , unlike when just about anyone else does it and it either looks like slow or sloppy or both.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Jun 27, 2023 11:51:51 GMT -5
GUYS CHECK THIS OUT I DO MMA *throws the most trash kicks and submissions you've ever seen*
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,131
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 27, 2023 12:48:35 GMT -5
Similarly, pinning attempt trades that take waaaaay too long to execute. I know not every pin is necessarily meant to end a match, that you're also trying to fatigue your opponent, but while Malenko and Benoit could do those trades really quickly, it got frustrating seeing green wrestlers trying and failing to do it without it being slow as molasses when WWE got it into their head to have one of those exchanges virtually weekly. All one has to do is watch an AZM match and then watch just about anyone else try and replicate her counter wrestling and it is astounding how slow everyone else looks in comparison unless you are like SLK. But it also is not just about the speed it is that combined with how smooth it looks like neither has to slow down for the other , unlike when just about anyone else does it and it either looks like slow or sloppy or both. There's an intensity there, like they're actually fighting for control the whole time, not "I'll have my turn, then roll so you get yours, then roll back... etc."
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grunt
ALF
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Post by grunt on Jun 27, 2023 13:28:20 GMT -5
See, that particular sequence just has the opposite effect on me : that speed and that intensity do stretch my suspension of disbelief, since it borderline feels like "hey, we've learned that particular sequence by heart and practiced it 6 million times, we can go through it at the speed of lightning !".
But then again I've never had much patience for those "trading fast paced moves and ending in a very obvious, planned-ahead standoff" cruiserweights and high-flyers love to do.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jun 27, 2023 16:12:59 GMT -5
At the most basic level, a punch. As I've said before in other threads, I don't ever remember a time where I didn't at least suspect that wrestling was a work. I'm sure there was a brief time, but I grew up when Mike Tyson was the baddest man on this or any other planet. Mike Tyson in his prime was about 5'10" and maybe 210 and knocking people colder than a banker's heart. And he was taking months between fights. Meanwhile, we have 250 to 350 pound guys punching each other night after night without so much as a black eye or broken tooth. I'm in total agreement on this one. I never understand anyone who says that we need to bring back "good" wrestling punches, because I've never, ever seen a wrestling punch that didn't take me out of the match. I'll take chops and forearms over them, every time.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jun 27, 2023 16:16:56 GMT -5
So this isn't mine, but it's unusual enough that it's worth the novelty, I think.
The stiff strikes in old school AJPW absolutely kill my wife's suspension of disbelief.
She's a martial artist. She knows her strikes. And she can see, with neon sign clarity, how the Four Pillars of Heaven are all pulling their strikes, avoiding follow through, neglecting to pivot or use their hips, doing a dozen different things that are all meant to take away the momentum of the hit while still producing a loud smacking noise.
Where wrestling fans see "OOOHHH SO STIFF, SO BRUTAL," and by wrestling standards, yes, it is, my wife sees "Oh my God, don't do that kick if you're going to beat up your body for something that looks so fake."
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,203
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 27, 2023 18:48:53 GMT -5
GUYS CHECK THIS OUT I DO MMA *throws the most trash kicks and submissions you've ever seen* Undertaker's forehead becomes 6 inches longer in fury upon reading this.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,203
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 27, 2023 18:51:09 GMT -5
Similarly, pinning attempt trades that take waaaaay too long to execute. I know not every pin is necessarily meant to end a match, that you're also trying to fatigue your opponent, but while Malenko and Benoit could do those trades really quickly, it got frustrating seeing green wrestlers trying and failing to do it without it being slow as molasses when WWE got it into their head to have one of those exchanges virtually weekly. All one has to do is watch an AZM match and then watch just about anyone else try and replicate her counter wrestling and it is astounding how slow everyone else looks in comparison unless you are like SLK. But it also is not just about the speed it is that combined with how smooth it looks like neither has to slow down for the other , unlike when just about anyone else does it and it either looks like slow or sloppy or both. I love this. Very quick, but it also is nice because most of the holds are not completed and just effortlessly powered out of, the sequence is largely them n ot letting the other execute fully, like Starlight Kid getting out of the la magistral before it's even completed yet. Does speak to "these two know each other and won't let them have their way".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2023 20:50:10 GMT -5
All one has to do is watch an AZM match and then watch just about anyone else try and replicate her counter wrestling and it is astounding how slow everyone else looks in comparison unless you are like SLK. But it also is not just about the speed it is that combined with how smooth it looks like neither has to slow down for the other , unlike when just about anyone else does it and it either looks like slow or sloppy or both. I love this. Very quick, but it also is nice because most of the holds are not completed and just effortlessly powered out of, the sequence is largely them n ot letting the other execute fully, like Starlight Kid getting out of the la magistral before it's even completed yet. Does speak to "these two know each other and won't let them have their way". Them not letting the other fully complete their moves is a great point and also considering these two have been with STARDOM since they were practically children and have been rivals practically since their debuts it makes this so much more insane when you know they are only 20 and 21 respectively and are putting on matches that put others so shame without even being in their primes. Like was said earlier by another poster it constantly feels like they are fighting for controll and not just putting on a performance they rehearsed.
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