That Juice Robinson Promo (Max Responds Pg 10)

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Oct 10, 2023 21:35:07 GMT -5 mrpeacock said:

Oct 10, 2023 21:29:57 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Very unfortunate timing is an understatement and one done on purpose at that

Yeah this wasn’t a case where a bus bombing happened the day they were set to air a very stupid angle on a taped show(which shame on WWE for). Someone at AEW saw what happened over the weekend and used it to get heel heat. Straight up.

No, they didn't

I'm gonna draw a line in the sand here. They did not see that conflict and think "How can we get heat off this?" with that segment, at all, full stop

MJF was likely the driving force behind this promo and segment, and is likely trying to use it as a way to show a Jewish Babyface OVERCOMING Antisemitism. Things just so happened to HAPPEN this week, that conflated the optics of it to the point people got upset at said optics

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

I will say that part of why these discussions are hard and don't really have a right answer is that wrestling operates in a really weird space as a form of entertainment. It's fiction at heart. These are people in roles playing characters. And there are bad people in fiction who do bad things that make you hate them. But wrestling often blends the wrestler with the character in a way few other mediums do. And it's live week to week meaning there's a stronger connection to real world events than there is for a scripted sitcom filmed months in advance. I personally never get too worked up over characters doing bad things because I'm used to TV featuring all forms of vile scum from racists to sexists and beyond. And to be clear, I don't think Juice's character here is supposed to hate Jews. I believe he's supposed to be a dick who doesn't care about the trauma he might bring up within Max. But even if he was, I wouldn't mind because I am fine with those characters in wrestling. But I also get that some see wrestling as an escape from that world and I understand why this would bother them. It's complicated.

[Cyno]

Oct 10, 2023 21:35:07 GMT -5 mrpeacock said:

Oct 10, 2023 21:29:57 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Very unfortunate timing is an understatement and one done on purpose at that

Yeah this wasn’t a case where a bus bombing happened the day they were set to air a very stupid angle on a taped show(which shame on WWE for). Someone at AEW saw what happened over the weekend and used it to get heel heat. Straight up.

Nothing in that segment even came close to referencing the horrors over the weekend. That is something I actually find very offensive.

[Denny Zen]

For the love of God guys, please stop acting like this somehow evoked an actual terrorist attack and get this thread locked.

That’s ridiculous.

[Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story]

I am curious if they ran this by TBS standard and practices because it feels like something a network would “nope” pretty quickly given the climate.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Oct 10, 2023 21:38:12 GMT -5 markymark said:

Oct 10, 2023 21:24:22 GMT -5 "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik said:

It's setting up a Jewish hero to overcome the bad guys. I'm fine with it.

Pretty much that, I get it looked uncomfortable for some people(and also bad timing) but this is leading to Juice getting his comeuppance next week, besides we will also get to see Max Caster getting character development.

I do think we still need to take this as a case-by-case thing as opposed to a blanket "If the good guy wins, it's OK" thing. I mean, to cite my earlier example, the good guy (Undertaker) resoundly beat the bad guy (Hassan) after that terrorist gang angle happened. Took him out right of the damn company never to be seen again. But that didn't make the angle preceding it OK, surely.

[kingoftheindies]

Yeah I'm gonna have to agree and say they didn't try to get heel heat because of what has been going on in the world. Not saying it wasn't influenced by it, but they clearly are using something Juice has done with a story Max has referenced for years.

Like I said earlier, if nothing else very poor timing, but I think in normal circumstances was brilliant story telling because again, MJF has shown that he is very insecure and easily thrown off his game, and the adding to that that what is arguably the most traumatic part of MJF's life was brought back to him and he doesn't have Adam Cole for emotional support adds to it.

Again with what has been going on whether they should have done this or not is a different discussion, but to say this was done just because of recent events is also not fair either.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Oct 10, 2023 21:43:20 GMT -5 Denny Zen said:

For the love of God guys, please stop acting like this somehow evoked an actual terrorist attack and get this thread locked.

That’s ridiculous.

See now this was my original point to it being overblown

Bad optics? Maybe shouldn't have happened? People taking offense? That I understand

Saying they actively piggybacked off of the incidents happening right now or saying stuff like Tony should be fired over it? That's just... that's taking us nowhere in these discussions, at all.

[eJm]

Oct 10, 2023 21:35:07 GMT -5 mrpeacock said:

Yeah this wasn’t a case where a bus bombing happened the day they were set to air a very stupid angle on a taped show(which shame on WWE for). Someone at AEW saw what happened over the weekend and used it to get heel heat. Straight up.

I'll just say right now, this is one of the things I'm talking about and unless there's literally a source that said someone (MJF/TK/Whoever) did this, this is where this trail of thought stops.

Talk about the promo itself, nothing more.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Oct 10, 2023 21:35:07 GMT -5 mrpeacock said:

Oct 10, 2023 21:29:57 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Very unfortunate timing is an understatement and one done on purpose at that

Yeah this wasn’t a case where a bus bombing happened the day they were set to air a very stupid angle on a taped show(which shake on WWE for). Someone at AEW saw what happened over the weekend and used it to get heel heat. Straight up.

I don't think it's so 'straight up' that at all. What they're doing for heel heat now has no parallel to the conflicts going on in the Middle East. It's an American dickhead doing a "Jewish people love money" joke, that only even holds connective tissue with the geopolitical struggles of the West Bank if you have a medieval studies degree. Real actual human beings died this week. There's reasonable discomfort with the timing and the use of this element, but it's not pulling on that for heat and I feel confident in saying that a small minority of people could even reasonably, truthfully draw lines and work back and then forward again through centuries and centuries of history to even make a case for how the two ideas share a claimable origin point.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

No one in the thread has said TK should be fired nor Juice for that matter

What's mostly been said was this is not a good look

[Lizuka #BLM]

Honestly I didn't even make the mental connection with what's happening in the world, if only since that's kind of a very complicated geopolitical situation that has many victims extending beyond solely Jewish people, but even without that particular bit of extra baggage hanging over it, it just kind of struck me as unnecessary and tasteless.

[Celexa Bliss 54]

Yeah, this was not deliberately done to invoke real life events, so let's knock that shit off right now. It was done to play off of the history of the two characters involved, it was just done at a really bad time.

[Cyno]

Oct 10, 2023 21:30:03 GMT -5 Celexa Bliss 54 said:

Oct 10, 2023 21:28:36 GMT -5 Texas Tornado said:

This screams something that MJF would be into, but I feel like someone's gotta be the person in the room to say "hey not this week".

Yeah, that's my take on it. I'm sure MJF approved it, if not came up with it himself, but this was not a good time to do it.

Max coming up with it would actually make a lot of sense. It's a very Jewish thing to do for us to own our collective trauma (lest it consume us). It's why self-depreciating humor is a big part of a lot of Jewish comedians' acts.

But yeah, just because Max thought up with it or thought it was okay doesn't mean he speaks for all of us, either.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Oct 10, 2023 21:47:23 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

No one in the thread has said TK should be fired nor Juice for that matter

What's mostly been said was this is not a good look

Page one someone said "TK should fire himself for oking that", let alone expanding outside of here

I'm not disagreeing about the optics at all.

[jm]

Oct 10, 2023 21:35:07 GMT -5 mrpeacock said:

Oct 10, 2023 21:29:57 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Very unfortunate timing is an understatement and one done on purpose at that

Yeah this wasn’t a case where a bus bombing happened the day they were set to air a very stupid angle on a taped show(which shame on WWE for). Someone at AEW saw what happened over the weekend and used it to get heel heat. Straight up.

Thank you for confirming why I have you on my ignore list.

[kingoftheindies]

Oct 10, 2023 21:47:23 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

No one in the thread has said TK should be fired nor Juice for that matter

What's mostly been said was this is not a good look

eh there's absolutely been people who took it too far but I'm not gonna take the thread down the rabbit hole.

[Tiger Millionaire]

I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't MJF's idea to do this angle, someone just has to be aware enough to say maybe we should table this for a couple of weeks, or better yet, not cross that line, because you don't have a wrestling heel do anti-sematic things in 2023. But, I also think that it is different to have Jewish babyface, who is a real life Jewish person, in this angle, vs Italian-American man who was pretending to be Arab lead a group of people who were obviously supposed to be terrorists strangle the Undertaker and carry out Davari like a martyr.

[Urn Anderson]

Oct 10, 2023 21:34:27 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

I get loo,ing at it through the lens of the way it's bad, but I would like to offer the counter, which I think is why this got okayed and was likely even Max's idea to go for in the first place: when the Jewish face overcomes the guy who stands in for the antisemitic bullies of the world, for the grown ass man who will play the same immature games on him that the idiot kids played that map on to the real hatreds of the world, it's going to be the big triumph moment of overcoming the stand-in for that. I don't think things should shy away from sensitive topics just because they're current so long as there's an understanding of how to deliver through on them that isn't simply kicking people when they're down. If their story is "antisemitism loses", if they aren't so stupid as to prey on those things just for heat and pull a Triple H vs. Booker T, then there's room for it. Room for people to be uncomfortable with it too, absolutely, but it's not a story that need inherently be iced on principle.

This is exactly my take on it, but more eloquently stated. One of the things wrestling does best is give the audience the catharsis of beating a real-world problem that they can’t actually solve, whether it’s a serious issue like war or racism, or something as simple as putting one over on your crappy boss.

I’m all in favor of creating that bogeyman so the audience can enjoy watching them get decisively defeated. It’s sticking the landing that’s the most important part, and the last couple of decades of wrestling have not been good about that.

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

Oct 10, 2023 21:47:23 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

No one in the thread has said TK should be fired nor Juice for that matter

What's mostly been said was this is not a good look

Yeah. It’s just tone deaf. If you’re okay with it, power to ya. I think if any entertainment company did something like this right now ppl would be in their right to say it’s tone deaf. Not the end of the world not “im never watching” it’s just .. this is escape for a lot of people. What’s happening can’t even be referenced so I’m just going to leave the thread. Bad call. Just my opinion.