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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 16, 2024 22:11:48 GMT -5
Vince made a lot of women do things on television they were deeply uncomfortable with, including kissing him, because they felt it necessary to 'do their job'. He used that leverage over the women who worked for him to humiliate themselves. Lita did not want to do the Live Sex Celebration. She was uncomfortable with it, but pushed into it. The same leverage Vince would use to get women to do thingfs they didn't want to on-screen carried over into the things he made a lot of them do behind the scenes, as well. There are a lot of things that are not extricable from the context of Vince's crimes and the accusations against him, because what he did stands as a much darker expression of something awful.
Separating art from the artist fails when the art has so many ties to the awful things the artist did. A racist writing songs about hating people of other races cannot magically have the distinction reconcilced, because he uts t racism into his art. The misogynist rapist who abused women abusing a woman on TV looks a very specific way. Citing moments of television that the women involved have specifically come out and said they were not comfortable but felt pressured in to, is at bst being deeply uninformed about the nature of what happeend, and at worst is a gleeful ignoring of the uncomfortable truth present for the sake of one's own peace of mind.
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Post by jabroni on Mar 16, 2024 22:16:55 GMT -5
Vince made a lot of women do things on television they were deeply uncomfortable with, including kissing him, because they felt it necessary to 'do their job'. He used that leverage over the women who worked for him to humiliate themselves. Lita did not want to do the Live Sex Celebration. She was uncomfortable with it, but pushed into it. The same leverage Vince would use to get women to do thingfs they didn't want to on-screen carried over into the things he made a lot of them do behind the scenes, as well. There are a lot of things that are not extricable from the context of Vince's crimes and the accusations against him, because what he did stands as a much darker expression of something awful. Separating art from the artist fails when the art has so many ties to the awful things the artist did. A racist writing songs about hating people of other races cannot magically have the distinction reconcilced, because he uts t racism into his art. The misogynist rapist who abused women abusing a woman on TV looks a very specific way. Citing moments of television that the women involved have specifically come out and said they were not comfortable but felt pressured in to, is at bst being deeply uninformed about the nature of what happeend, and at worst is a gleeful ignoring of the uncomfortable truth present for the sake of one's own peace of mind. We can talk about Shane then. This thread doesn't have to be about Vince if people are not comfortable talking about him. We all have views on things that other people wouldn't imagine. My OP mentions Vince by name once. It also mentions Stephanie, Shane, The Rock (twice), and Triple H (twice). The first line is, "When the McMahons sold the WWE". I did not frame this thread to be about Vince McMahon, the audience did that.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 16, 2024 22:20:55 GMT -5
Vince made a lot of women do things on television they were deeply uncomfortable with, including kissing him, because they felt it necessary to 'do their job'. He used that leverage over the women who worked for him to humiliate themselves. Lita did not want to do the Live Sex Celebration. She was uncomfortable with it, but pushed into it. The same leverage Vince would use to get women to do thingfs they didn't want to on-screen carried over into the things he made a lot of them do behind the scenes, as well. There are a lot of things that are not extricable from the context of Vince's crimes and the accusations against him, because what he did stands as a much darker expression of something awful. Separating art from the artist fails when the art has so many ties to the awful things the artist did. A racist writing songs about hating people of other races cannot magically have the distinction reconcilced, because he uts t racism into his art. The misogynist rapist who abused women abusing a woman on TV looks a very specific way. Citing moments of television that the women involved have specifically come out and said they were not comfortable but felt pressured in to, is at bst being deeply uninformed about the nature of what happeend, and at worst is a gleeful ignoring of the uncomfortable truth present for the sake of one's own peace of mind. We can talk about Shane then. This thread doesn't have to be about Vince if people are not comfortable talking about him. We all have views on things that other people wouldn't imagine. My OP mentions Vince by name once. It also mentions Stephanie, Shane, The Rock, and Triple H by name once. The first line is, "When the McMahons sold the WWE". I did not frame this thread to be about Vince McMahon, the audience did that. Shane didn't write the live sex celebration, and you claimed 'they were having fun'. Hell for that matter, Shane didn't 'sell WWE', Vince did. Which McMahon we talk about is immaterial to the words you said that I am responding to.
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Post by jabroni on Mar 16, 2024 22:22:42 GMT -5
We can talk about Shane then. This thread doesn't have to be about Vince if people are not comfortable talking about him. We all have views on things that other people wouldn't imagine. My OP mentions Vince by name once. It also mentions Stephanie, Shane, The Rock, and Triple H by name once. The first line is, "When the McMahons sold the WWE". I did not frame this thread to be about Vince McMahon, the audience did that. Shane didn't write the live sex celebration, and you claimed 'they were having fun'. Hell for that matter, Shane didn't 'sell WWE', Vince did. Which McMahon we talk about is immaterial to the words you said that I am responding to. Okay.
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Post by Terry McConkey on Mar 16, 2024 22:27:29 GMT -5
I don't like Dwayne Johnson being more involved with the product. Not a fan of the Logan Paul U.S Title reign or the Prime shit. It's like I don't recognize this form of WWE sometimes and it's nothing to do with McMahons.
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Post by MachoManGodzilla on Mar 16, 2024 22:40:55 GMT -5
I was a kid during the late 80s/early 90s golden age of WWF and WCW so imagine how I feel. lol I think that part of it is that a lot of wrestlers just don’t come across as believable. This will probably sound like an old man yelling at cloud post but go back and watch Bruiser Brody, Stan Hansen, Vader, early Hogan and how he was 6’8 300 lbs but he was in there selling like he was dying, the Macho Man and his entire presentation and relationship with Miss Elizabeth, etc and compare it to the people of today. The stars of today are over and have good matches and all of that but so few of them make you actually believe that anything they’re doing is anything more than their part in a television show. That’s why I really like someone like Eddie Kingston because he has that ability to make you believe that it’s real and he’s reacting like a real person would. 🤷🏻♂️ You had me until you mentioned Eddie Kingston. His "Puro super fan" move set, kills me. I actually like his promos, he has a Mick Foley "everyman" look, & his IRL story is great. And then the bell rings.
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Post by MachoManGodzilla on Mar 16, 2024 22:44:50 GMT -5
"Vince McMahon's WWE never had celebrities" is either a fantastic troll or the most absurd thing I've ever seen. I can't even try and say anything as a rebuttal because I feel like I'm in the upside down I'm talking about celebrity wrestlers like Pat McAfee and Logan Paul. Hope that helps, unless you guys just want to assume what I meant without asking for more information. Add Bhad Bunny to the list as well. You guys might like celebrities coming in and stealing the spotlight from the full timers, but I think it discredits the men and women who dedicated their entire lives to the sport to make less than some social media fool like Logan Paul who shows up 5 times a year. I'm more of a wrestling purist myself. I don't mind the one offs like when wrestler fought a Sumo guy or Floyd Mayweather. But we never saw US Champ Floyd and Oki Bono never main evented a PPV like Bhad Bunny did. It's lame. I like watching wrestlers in situations where it's treated like a simulated sport, not a ratings bonanza. They take opportunities and money away from the actual wrestlers who are the life blood of the sport. I bet you wouldn't be happy if you got bumped from the Royal Rumble because Pat McAfee who's already in TV for hundreds of hours a year "needed" another spot that could have gone to somebody who had never been in the rumble. Endeavor will do whatever it takes to pop a rating without any regard for "dis business". If they sell it that ant celebrity can walk in and compete with the wrestlers, it devalues the sacred art of wrestling if anyone can come in and compete with alleged world class athletes. That's my take so if you want to pick it apart, pick that apart. I'm just trying to support the boys in the back, not pad Pat Macafee or Logan Paul's wallet further. They have enough money and exposure already... You love Kofi Kingston? You love Sheamus? These dudes can't get on the card because some idiot celebrity is taking their spot and getting paid 5x the amount. You know, actual wrestlers. But... but.... Mr. T.
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Post by jabroni on Mar 16, 2024 22:50:55 GMT -5
I'm talking about celebrity wrestlers like Pat McAfee and Logan Paul. Hope that helps, unless you guys just want to assume what I meant without asking for more information. Add Bhad Bunny to the list as well. You guys might like celebrities coming in and stealing the spotlight from the full timers, but I think it discredits the men and women who dedicated their entire lives to the sport to make less than some social media fool like Logan Paul who shows up 5 times a year. I'm more of a wrestling purist myself. I don't mind the one offs like when wrestler fought a Sumo guy or Floyd Mayweather. But we never saw US Champ Floyd and Oki Bono never main evented a PPV like Bhad Bunny did. It's lame. I like watching wrestlers in situations where it's treated like a simulated sport, not a ratings bonanza. They take opportunities and money away from the actual wrestlers who are the life blood of the sport. I bet you wouldn't be happy if you got bumped from the Royal Rumble because Pat McAfee who's already in TV for hundreds of hours a year "needed" another spot that could have gone to somebody who had never been in the rumble. Endeavor will do whatever it takes to pop a rating without any regard for "dis business". If they sell it that ant celebrity can walk in and compete with the wrestlers, it devalues the sacred art of wrestling if anyone can come in and compete with alleged world class athletes. That's my take so if you want to pick it apart, pick that apart. I'm just trying to support the boys in the back, not pad Pat Macafee or Logan Paul's wallet further. They have enough money and exposure already... You love Kofi Kingston? You love Sheamus? These dudes can't get on the card because some idiot celebrity is taking their spot and getting paid 5x the amount. You know, actual wrestlers. But... but.... Mr. T. You're absolutely right. Initial analysis was not correct. WrestleMania was built on celebrities. Without celebrities it wouldn't be WrestleMania. It'd be just another wrestling show nobody cares about instead of a pop culture phenomena. You gotta have Snoop and Floyd Money Mayweather and of course Mr. T. Pamela Anderson, Jenny McCarthy. It's freaking WrestleMania, pal! Celebrities are great. Heck, I remember the celebrity guest GM for the 2 year period. 🤣 Remember when Pee Wee hosted Raw?!? Those were good times! This was just the best: m.youtube.com/watch?v=NYDrsCBxjVE&pp=ygUSV3dlIHBlZSB3ZWUgaGVybWFu
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,143
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 16, 2024 23:04:38 GMT -5
The FAN that we grew up with is gone
The AJ Lee Threads are a distant memory
Gone are the days of Spoiler threads turning into Sandwiches
Never again will there be a Bigfoot Dance Party
We have surely eaten our last Golden Snowcone
Our eyes will never again view a raunchy Closed Caption
We've worn our last SMITH T-Shirt
Chris Masters will simply never wear a Sombrero again
Sin Cara will never again be captioned as 60's Spider-man
We will never buy that Pizza Oven
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cosmo
Samurai Cop
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Post by cosmo on Mar 16, 2024 23:12:18 GMT -5
The FAN that we grew up with is gone The AJ Lee Threads are a distant memory Gone are the days of Spoiler threads turning into Sandwiches Never again will there be a Bigfoot Dance Party We have surely eaten our last Golden Snowcone Our eyes will never again view a raunchy Closed Caption We've worn our last SMITH T-Shirt Chris Masters will simply never wear a Sombrero again Sin Cara will never again be captioned as 60's Spider-man We will never buy that Pizza Oven
But will it ruin the Tensai gimmick?
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,713
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Post by schma on Mar 17, 2024 0:41:01 GMT -5
The FAN that we grew up with is gone The AJ Lee Threads are a distant memory Gone are the days of Spoiler threads turning into Sandwiches Never again will there be a Bigfoot Dance Party We have surely eaten our last Golden Snowcone Our eyes will never again view a raunchy Closed Caption We've worn our last SMITH T-Shirt Chris Masters will simply never wear a Sombrero again Sin Cara will never again be captioned as 60's Spider-man We will never buy that Pizza Oven
But will it ruin the Tensai gimmick?
Only if Mike Tenay stops windmilling.
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Post by KingPooper on Mar 17, 2024 1:04:53 GMT -5
That’s life though. Things change. Life goes on. Wrestling has been a constant in my life since I was five. I’m forty now. About ten years ago it started to feel like Saved by the Bell the New Class, where it looks the seem, but the characters that made it great, just aren’t around anymore.
My fandom like everything else ebbs and flows, trying to get through the pandemic I’d watch like six different companies a week, right now? The last show I watched was the Rumble and I don’t plan on watching anything till Mania. Hell my second favorite wrestler of all time retired and I hardly watched clips of the match. But wrestling will always be there.
Just like my favorite sports teams, so much fun watching the Pistons, Tigers, and Red Wings on the 00s, I wish I could go back to those days but that’s not how time works. Now the lions (who only played one playoff game in my entire lifetime until now) are now the best team in the city. Not to say I’m a fair weather fan, but it’s easier to watch something (WWE included) when it’s firing on all cylinders, just look at the MCU I’ve watched every tv show and web series, but it will probably be a few months before I finally get to watching Echo.
Thank God for Godzilla at the moment.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,143
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 17, 2024 1:07:18 GMT -5
The FAN that we grew up with is gone The AJ Lee Threads are a distant memory Gone are the days of Spoiler threads turning into Sandwiches Never again will there be a Bigfoot Dance Party We have surely eaten our last Golden Snowcone Our eyes will never again view a raunchy Closed Caption We've worn our last SMITH T-Shirt Chris Masters will simply never wear a Sombrero again Sin Cara will never again be captioned as 60's Spider-man We will never buy that Pizza Oven
But will it ruin the Tensai gimmick?
It may or may not be ruined Source: Rajah
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
Crow T. Robot
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Mar 17, 2024 4:53:07 GMT -5
This thread? No passion.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Mar 17, 2024 5:53:33 GMT -5
My initial response to the thread title was "good". Ignoring the weird Vince defense that's going on for a minute...
I've been watching (on and off) since 1997/8. When I think back over the past 25+ years the vast majority of that time I have found the product to be average at best. Periods where I found the week to week television/stories to be compelling can be summarised as follows:
1998-2000 2002 Smackdown First half of 2005 First half of 2006 2007 Second half of 2011 2013 First half of 2014
That's it, approximately 8 years out of 25, until around the Summer of 2022 since when I've been excited to see what happens from one week to the next again. Let's hope they can keep it up.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 17, 2024 6:40:02 GMT -5
I have nothing interesting to add I just wanted to be a part of this f***ing weird thread
Also the windmill will never stop
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xxshoyuweeniexx
King Koopa
Going Big and Saying That
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Mar 17, 2024 10:55:11 GMT -5
But will it ruin the Tensai gimmick?
Only if Mike Tenay stops windmilling. And if we don’t get a Divas Fatworld for thread for my school project
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Post by sabretooth on Mar 17, 2024 11:06:41 GMT -5
Go at it in the comments!
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wildojinx
Wade Wilson
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Post by wildojinx on Mar 17, 2024 11:41:13 GMT -5
But will it ruin the Tensai gimmick?
It may or may not be ruined Source: Rajah Christian may or may not have told all his Malaysian slaves that their fathers were dead.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Mar 17, 2024 11:45:15 GMT -5
I still can't tell if this is a piss-poor troll attempt or some people just being really, really, really, really stupid.
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