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Post by BRAINFADE on Oct 30, 2007 10:35:37 GMT -5
i think people are being impatient because the product at the moment is piss poor and they don't find it exciting or THAT entertaining. Honestly the thing thats kept me entertained the most is MVP/Hardy That's my real problem with it. I'm not upset that the debut didn't happen. A little disappointed maybe but not upset. The problem is (and I say again that generally I enjoy both shows), the show they put around it last night was so bad, I thought it was deliberate so that whoever could debut and "save us" from the garbage on the screen. Instead of that we're back to McMahon vs. DX. Put a halfway decent show on and they can run the promos for six months for all I care. That's my problem with last night's show too. I wasn't that disappointed that Jericho didn't show up last night, it was the overall show that pissed me off. I just get the feeling that theyre latching on to the one exciting thing that they have going at the moment, and when fans tune in to see it, they just force feed us hour after hour of garbage. I think it's great that they are doing a slow build up to the imminent return of Jericho, but they have to keep the rest of the show interesting so fans won't tune out until he comes back. WCW in 1997 was, i believe, a perfect example of how to do a slow burning angle right. They had arguably the hottest angle in wrestling history at that point in Sting vs. Hogan, and it wound on for over a year before the final payoff. The difference between this and what WWE is doing now is that WCW's show at the time was awesome on so many other levels as well, not just the Hogan-Sting angle. My point is that with all the other hot angles and matches going on at the same time to keep them entertained, the WCW fans were able to be patient with the Hogan-Sting angle. In other words, WCW weren't throwing all of their eggs into one basket. This, i believe, is the exact opposite of what WWE is doing with the Save_Us.222 stuff. They know they're onto something that has the fans interested and will have fans tune into their show, and i believe they are relying on this and simply putting no effort into other angles. Hence last night's reformation of DX-lite. One more thing that is worrying me. What happens if Jericho returns, and (God forbid) in his first match back he picks up a serious injury and is (like so many others) out for a long time? WWE would be absolutely screwed. My two cents.
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Mr. Mediocre
Hank Scorpio
Bert Early?... sorry, that's a typo. Butt. Ugly.
Much better since I was last here.
Posts: 6,249
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Post by Mr. Mediocre on Oct 30, 2007 10:35:58 GMT -5
Staring down Mark Henry is for comic effect. Kennedy staring him down was used to make the audience think 'aha, it could be him'. Not all fans read the internet. I didn't read it all weekend and as such, was not dissapointed Jericho didn't show up, because I didn't allow myself to get excited by a load of rubbish. I am still eargerly anticipating his return and am enjoying the slow build. I think a lot of casual fans would have that opinion as well. *grumble* Damnit... makin' me find the right DVD. Took 15 minutes. I need to start organizing. Annnyway... RAW, 8/13, starts with everyone around the ring. Vince comes down, talks about being surprised at the news last week that he has a bastard son. Stared no one down on his way. The previous week, he got the information as he was getting into his limo when the show was going off the air so he definitely didn't stare anyone except Coach down then. Anyway, Stephanie gets in the ring and she goes on and eventually says that it's someone around the ring. Very audible "Kennedy" chants can be heard at this point. Vince has no stared anyone down at this point. There was absolutely no hints at this point. Later, when McMahon gets out of the ring he starts the stare downs. When he stares down Kennedy the crowd erupts. They knew. I'm taking your word for it on this one...if the Kennedy chants started right there, I take back what I said earlier about people checking the internet.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Oct 30, 2007 10:53:22 GMT -5
*grumble* Damnit... makin' me find the right DVD. Took 15 minutes. I need to start organizing. Annnyway... RAW, 8/13, starts with everyone around the ring. Vince comes down, talks about being surprised at the news last week that he has a bastard son. Stared no one down on his way. The previous week, he got the information as he was getting into his limo when the show was going off the air so he definitely didn't stare anyone except Coach down then. Anyway, Stephanie gets in the ring and she goes on and eventually says that it's someone around the ring. Very audible "Kennedy" chants can be heard at this point. Vince has no stared anyone down at this point. There was absolutely no hints at this point. Later, when McMahon gets out of the ring he starts the stare downs. When he stares down Kennedy the crowd erupts. They knew. I'm taking your word for it on this one...if the Kennedy chants started right there, I take back what I said earlier about people checking the internet. Also, you could take into account where they were which was at MSG, known for being smark central for starting up chants such as "You screwed Matt" and the various chants at Lesnar when they knew he was leaving for football.
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Post by thesunbeast on Oct 30, 2007 11:25:28 GMT -5
Actually, I thought "Well, there's another gimmic they ran into the ground and the wrestler hasn't even showed yet" I think this is just another time where everyone is intriged into a storyline and now WWE gets to play with us like silly putty, just like their suppossed to do, and get the most out of it. Nothing more, and nothing less. IWC will just say that WWE "Isn't doing the right thing". So another words, I don't get it. I don't understand why everyone will complain that WWE dosen't build up long enough for storylines, but when they have an event that everyone is anticipating, they WANT IT NOW! When the IWC is on the outside looking in, and are "anylizing" the product, they aren't caught up in the storylines themselves, and will feel alright by saying things that seem to make sense to them on paper (Like WWE should drag out storylines) because it dosen't effect them. But, when they ARE caught up in a storyline, they feel bad when they have to wait for something, and now, because they feel bad and get impatient, all of a sudden "WWE isn't doing the right thing". If people are going to wait every single week for jericho to show up on that day, then WWE should wait untill Survivor Series. But, I have a feeling that the IWC are going to act like the biggest children in the history of wrestling-fandom, and REALLY complain like no other, forcing WWE to debut Jericho on the spur of the moment decision, and it will be watered down because of it.
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Post by Avalanche Alvarez on Oct 30, 2007 11:54:17 GMT -5
Actually, I thought if this is ANYONE other than Jericho, ratings are going to dive horribly.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Oct 30, 2007 14:01:33 GMT -5
Actually, I thought if this is ANYONE other than Jericho, ratings are going to dive horribly. I disagree, it may go down a bit for a week or so, but it's not like this is the MNW where Vince has Bischoff breathing down his neck or anything and this is a make it or break it storyline. The only people blowing this out of proportion are smarks.
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Post by MNM's Official "Fixer" on Oct 30, 2007 14:15:30 GMT -5
I hope this Save_Us thing goes on for a for more weeks. Yes, I want Jericho back as much as the next person. But when the time is right, he will come back. Whenever that may be. His main concern right now is probably his book. He worked on it for over a year.
Rememmber, when Sabu and Taz fueded for a year, and people loved it? (Same case with Hogan/Sting back in WCW) WWE needs to do something like that. They seem to just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks half the time. But the moment they try to drag out something, people get impatient, and get pissed.
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Zutroy
Don Corleone
That's preposterous. Zutroy here is as American as apple pie.
Posts: 1,933
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Post by Zutroy on Oct 30, 2007 14:17:49 GMT -5
He stared down a lot of people. He stared down Mark Henry (or was it Viscera?) for crying out loud. I laughed my ass off at that. Genetics 101 Vince, that man is NOT half white. Anyway, I'd have to dig up my tapes but I'm pretty sure they chanted it even before the staredowns. Seriously I can't understand this elitism (not exactly the right word, but you know what I mean) among the IWC... How many people have internet access nowadays? Or better yet, how many don't? How many people have never googled something they're willing to spend hundreds of dollars on? I love that people think it's so unbelievable that the average fan might know how to use the internet and might use it for more than porn. It's not elitism. I genuinely don't think most fans spend their times cruising the sites looking for the information we do. It was true back when Vince Russo was doing smark/insider angles in 2000 (when everyone had internet access and I guarantee more people were cruising sites) and no one got them and it's still true now. All you need to do is google "wrestling news" and youve found what youre looking for. No effort involved and certainly no cruising sites. Anyone who doesn't believe that at least 50-60% of wrestling fans whether smark or not use the internet to look up more info on WWE is living on another planet.
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Mr. Mediocre
Hank Scorpio
Bert Early?... sorry, that's a typo. Butt. Ugly.
Much better since I was last here.
Posts: 6,249
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Post by Mr. Mediocre on Oct 30, 2007 14:18:53 GMT -5
It's not elitism. I genuinely don't think most fans spend their times cruising the sites looking for the information we do. It was true back when Vince Russo was doing smark/insider angles in 2000 (when everyone had internet access and I guarantee more people were cruising sites) and no one got them and it's still true now. All you need to do is google "wrestling news" and youve found what youre looking for. No effort involved and certainly no cruising sites. Anyone who doesn't believe that at least 50-60% of wrestling fans whether smark or not use the internet to look up more info on WWE is living on another planet. I've already taken back that statement.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Oct 30, 2007 14:20:15 GMT -5
It's not elitism. I genuinely don't think most fans spend their times cruising the sites looking for the information we do. It was true back when Vince Russo was doing smark/insider angles in 2000 (when everyone had internet access and I guarantee more people were cruising sites) and no one got them and it's still true now. All you need to do is google "wrestling news" and youve found what youre looking for. No effort involved and certainly no cruising sites. Anyone who doesn't believe that at least 50-60% of wrestling fans whether smark or not use the internet to look up more info on WWE is living on another planet. I'm sure some do, but it's not to the point where if Jericho doesn't come next week or whenever that business will go down. Again, the only people blowing this out of proportion are smarks, I know a several casual fans and most of the conversations nowadays center around Cena, HBK,HHH, Batista or Austin.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Oct 30, 2007 14:20:23 GMT -5
comparing the save_us campaign with the Hogan/Sting-booking?
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Zutroy
Don Corleone
That's preposterous. Zutroy here is as American as apple pie.
Posts: 1,933
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Post by Zutroy on Oct 30, 2007 14:22:39 GMT -5
All you need to do is google "wrestling news" and youve found what youre looking for. No effort involved and certainly no cruising sites. Anyone who doesn't believe that at least 50-60% of wrestling fans whether smark or not use the internet to look up more info on WWE is living on another planet. I've already taken back that statement. I should really learn to read all of the posts. Sorry about that.
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Post by uncleslam on Oct 31, 2007 11:11:04 GMT -5
Shhh they don't hear the Y2J chants in the arena. Hell, if I was there with a few people I'd probably chant it along with them, means nothing. Still doesn't mean WWE has to deliver on it as they are under no obligation to do so. For all we know it could be the debut of a 300 pound hoss from OVW called .222 and his finisher is called "Save Us" or something. How does an arena full of people chanting a wrestler's name mean nothing?
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Christianv2
Dennis Stamp
Wrestlecrapper since 2001
Posts: 4,279
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Post by Christianv2 on Oct 31, 2007 11:25:12 GMT -5
I think the really big problem here is that Y2J is gonna end up over shadowing everything because while a midcard match is going on or even a main event is going on, the crowd will be chanting Y2J and ignoring whatever storyline or match the WWE is trying to do. The crowd didnt care about the DX reunion, they were too busy going "Where the f*** is Jericho?"
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2007 11:27:10 GMT -5
It's sad that RAW sucks so much that so many people feel "cheated" into watching. He's right. I never actually sit down and watch an entire episode of Raw(unless I'm drunk, and even then I flip through the chanels during half the segments). But after the x_29(10/29) promo, I sat through the entire thing. I feel cheated and dirty. I feel like I never want to watch the show ever again out of principle. Well, except Santino's segments. Son. You just got s(w)erved!
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Oct 31, 2007 12:06:02 GMT -5
Hell, if I was there with a few people I'd probably chant it along with them, means nothing. Still doesn't mean WWE has to deliver on it as they are under no obligation to do so. For all we know it could be the debut of a 300 pound hoss from OVW called .222 and his finisher is called "Save Us" or something. How does an arena full of people chanting a wrestler's name mean nothing? Well apart from that wrestler at least still being prevalent in most of those fans minds, it doesn't mean a whole lot. And from being at live WWE shows/PPV's, it doesn't take very much to get a chant going. WWE is under no obligation whatsoever to produce Jericho next week or any week for that matter. It's just hype that got out of hand online and now people are upset because they allowed themselves to get reeled in by some very short videos on Raw and coming up with theories and such only to be let down on 3 different occasions. I'm sure there are some casual fans who surf the web, but I hardly think they are giving those vids the amount of energy and thought that most smarks are giving it right now.
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Post by uncleslam on Oct 31, 2007 18:28:52 GMT -5
How does an arena full of people chanting a wrestler's name mean nothing? Well apart from that wrestler at least still being prevalent in most of those fans minds, it doesn't mean a whole lot. And from being at live WWE shows/PPV's, it doesn't take very much to get a chant going. WWE is under no obligation whatsoever to produce Jericho next week or any week for that matter. It's just hype that got out of hand online and now people are upset because they allowed themselves to get reeled in by some very short videos on Raw and coming up with theories and such only to be let down on 3 different occasions. I'm sure there are some casual fans who surf the web, but I hardly think they are giving those vids the amount of energy and thought that most smarks are giving it right now. How can you be positive about that? How many of the millions of households that watch Raw have you visited to see for yourself what the reaction is?
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Post by Red Impact on Oct 31, 2007 20:16:13 GMT -5
This entire ordeal reminds of that Simpsons episode where Homer was analyzing the bible to try to predict the rapture.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Oct 31, 2007 20:24:35 GMT -5
Well apart from that wrestler at least still being prevalent in most of those fans minds, it doesn't mean a whole lot. And from being at live WWE shows/PPV's, it doesn't take very much to get a chant going. WWE is under no obligation whatsoever to produce Jericho next week or any week for that matter. It's just hype that got out of hand online and now people are upset because they allowed themselves to get reeled in by some very short videos on Raw and coming up with theories and such only to be let down on 3 different occasions. I'm sure there are some casual fans who surf the web, but I hardly think they are giving those vids the amount of energy and thought that most smarks are giving it right now. How can you be positive about that? How many of the millions of households that watch Raw have you visited to see for yourself what the reaction is? I'm sure it was somewhat big, but it couldn't have been so bad to the point where the fans would stop enjoying the show and not mark for certain wrestlers like HBK, HHH and Jeff Hardy who got a big reaction during the tag match. So it's not like the Jericho thing is the only thing that most fans are thinking about. And even if every single person in the arena were to chant his name, it doesn't mean that WWE has to produce him at all whatsoever. If anyone jumps to conclusions and is pissed because their interpretation of some videos didn't turn out on the day they had hoped, that's on them.
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Reverend BTY
Hank Scorpio
Christian Troy: God's Gift
Posts: 7,206
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Post by Reverend BTY on Oct 31, 2007 20:30:44 GMT -5
I thought "Oh well, hope he debuts before the end of the year". That's all that ran through my mind. That and "Victoria as Yokozuna ROCKS!" Or at the very least the image of a person in a fat suit falling and not being able to get up. For example, this guy...
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