Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,219
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Post by Mecca on Mar 10, 2008 17:03:09 GMT -5
Whoa Whoa Whoa.....greatest matches of all time and top draws? He's booked at the top but for the majority of his time there he hasn't been the #1 draw. Maybe you may not like his matches but others do. I don't think he's that bad as some would say, and enjoyed his heel work in 99-00 especially as I really hated the guy at the time. I don't think he totally sucks either, he had a great run of matches before he blew up his quad. I don't think his run of high level matches lasted long enough or his draw ability as him as the top draw are good enough to label him in the elite category. That doesn't mean he isn't good, I just don't think he belongs in the same discussion as a guy like Rock that's no knock though the Rock is very rare. |
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Mar 10, 2008 17:37:50 GMT -5
The only guys that get mentioned with Rock are Austin and Hogan.
That's about it as far as the TALENT goes.
YOu have Ric Flair, HBK, and Bret Hart, but none of those guys can match Austin, Hogan, or Rock with the main stream recognizability.
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BHB
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,778
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Post by BHB on Mar 10, 2008 17:40:25 GMT -5
Maybe you may not like his matches but others do. I don't think he's that bad as some would say, and enjoyed his heel work in 99-00 especially as I really hated the guy at the time. I don't think he totally sucks either, he had a great run of matches before he blew up his quad. I don't think his run of high level matches lasted long enough or his draw ability as him as the top draw are good enough to label him in the elite category. That doesn't mean he isn't good, I just don't think he belongs in the same discussion as a guy like Rock that's no knock though the Rock is very rare. QFT. |
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doytch
Trap-Jaw
hahaha
Posts: 298
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Post by doytch on Mar 10, 2008 17:45:57 GMT -5
triple h has 11 champion titles and is vince mcmahons sun. he will win at wrestlemania when he is undefeated accept for losses against undertaker and cena. nobody one else have wwe titles as much as triple h.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Mar 10, 2008 18:16:34 GMT -5
Maybe you may not like his matches but others do. I don't think he's that bad as some would say, and enjoyed his heel work in 99-00 especially as I really hated the guy at the time. I don't think he totally sucks either, he had a great run of matches before he blew up his quad. I don't think his run of high level matches lasted long enough or his draw ability as him as the top draw are good enough to label him in the elite category. That doesn't mean he isn't good, I just don't think he belongs in the same discussion as a guy like Rock that's no knock though the Rock is very rare. He isn't directly on Rock's or Austin's level, but those guys are once in a decade kind of guys. There's no shame in not being on that level, because only a select handful ever will be. HHH has been a draw though. You don't main event Mania main event after Mania main event if your company doesn't know that you will draw enough people to it. There's also the fact that I'd say he was one of the most hated heels in recent history, especially in 2000. You don't get the reactions he does if you can't draw. As for being given oppurtunities that others weren't, I disagree. What sets Vince and the WWE apart from others is the fact that they do have confidence in who they are pushing. They go full throttle, and don't end it half-heartedly if it doesn't immediately take off. Let's say they decided that they didn't want to push HHH because the fans didn't hop on board straight away. They then push Shamrock for example. What if he gets the belt and ratings tank? What if they then decide to push Val Venis? What if he then gets the belt and ratings tank? Vince is a genius in this business because he knows who will draw and who won't. HHH was given that push for a reason, because Vince knew he could be given that type of ball and run with it, and Vince was proved right. HHH was a hated heel, one of the best heels of recent times and is still one of the most over faces, who's appeal has spanned a decade. I can name you another example rightnow in Lashley, who was pushed relentlessly despite the fans not immediately taking to him. He only ever had one proper PPV main event, and I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually got over had he had the oppurtunity to be in more stories. Cena is another example, he is pushed relentlessly, and Vince doesn't stop his push because there is a backlash. He works it to his advantage. There are reasons they push(ed) HHH. It wasn't because he was married to the bosses daughter. It was because HHH had the qualities that were identified by guys who are truly smart to the business and know what they are doing. I'd say they didn't keep with Jericho because they will have best and worse case scenarios of where they would expect raitngs and other drawing indicators to be at. WWF at that time, with the NWO back and Rock and Austin still there, as well as Flair, they would probably not have expected such a downturn. HHH was champion when the brand extention was in its infancy, and when stars had been taken away from the show HHH was on. The BE needed to happen because the roster was at that annoying point where it was too big to sustain a single brand, and yet didn't have enough truly big stars to sustain their mega ratings. So HHH having less Austin and Rock, as well as having other stars not even on the same show as him, could be viable reasons for a downturn, and the WWE would have expected such a downturn and planned for it when pushing through the BE. The ratings HHH got were obviously as good as they would have thought they could have expected, otherwise HHH wouldn't have been champ. They would have stopped it, because Vince will put the success of his business above all. Jericho's ratings for the starpower the roster had at that time may not have been good enough. Cena is getting even lower ratings than HHH. Is he the reason for the industry downturn? Hell no. Cena is one of the only wrestlers nowadays who gets the crowd reactions that many got during the attitude era, so he is doing his job just fine. The reason the ratings are lower now is because there isn't a big enough pool of top drawing stars to compliment Cena, not BECAUSE Cena is the champ. Just like with HHH. |
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Post by thesunbeast on Mar 10, 2008 18:44:46 GMT -5
Too many people are looking at this from a wrestling purist perspective. You're a top draw if you can get people to watch the TV when you're on, and order ppv'a that you are featured on. It's not that people just order the ppv and then they put someone on the show, and it's not that they just watch the show and put someone on it. Also, by "they", I'm referring to the true drawing audience, which are casual fans.
The only reason why everyone knows that HHH has had 20 minute promos in the ring is because they watched the entire 20 minutes.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 10, 2008 18:53:30 GMT -5
Always weird to me to see dissertations on a yes or no opinion question.
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xroads
AC Slater
Blow Away Diet
Posts: 149
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Post by xroads on Mar 15, 2008 22:12:22 GMT -5
Actually, had you paid attention to the story told throughout that show, it wasn't about HHH trying to beat Flair's record. It was about beginning one of the top matches for WM (HHH's quest to the title, Orton's reign of terror). It gave the fans an exciting opening match (what other PPV besides the TNA weeklies has ever opened with the World title match?), got HHH more over as an underdog who would take on all comers full force, and then in the end, gave Orton some credibility, PLUS a top challenger for later on down the road. noob im not talking about storylines im talking about his goal overall. silly fanboy |
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Post by big nasty on Mar 15, 2008 22:19:29 GMT -5
his matches arent terrible, i just cant stand to listen to him, or sit through his entrance.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
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Post by nate5054 on Mar 15, 2008 23:43:25 GMT -5
simple question....I'm just curious to see who, if anyone, likes "the game" I am a huge fan of Triple H...I notice he's been getting a lot more heat on these boards lately His entrance is still my favorite of all time. Plus he's solid all around in just about all aspects. I can't disagree with those who think that he's been played out too much though. |
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Post by Topher is Human on Mar 15, 2008 23:46:00 GMT -5
Been a fan since the beginning.
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Matt Dunn
Hank Scorpio
It was inevitable.
Posts: 5,596
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Post by Matt Dunn on Mar 16, 2008 9:15:12 GMT -5
triple h has 11 champion titles and is vince mcmahons sun. he will win at wrestlemania when he is undefeated accept for losses against undertaker and cena. nobody one else have wwe titles as much as triple h. If HHH is Vince's sun, does that make Steph Vince's moon? (rimshot) |
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