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Post by Loki on May 2, 2009 17:27:25 GMT -5
I'm surprised someone like Loki who always complains about how stale the WWE product is today doesn't see the potential in something genuinely FRESH (at least in the past few years) - competitive, athletic, well worked matches between talented attractive women of all shapes, sizes, and gimmicks (not just the WWE stereotypes) based on meaningful angles and storylines. TNA had a fair degree of success with it before Gail Kim left. Shimmer is also still in business and going strong after 4 years, with ROH very happy to recognise their title and showcase the best of the (non-TNA) bunch on their TV show and PPVs. I'm not salivating at that idea because, to put it simple, I don't think a solid and competent Women's Division couldn't change much in the current WWE's landscape. When I complain about the staleness of the product, I complain about the booking formula. So, be it HHH v Orton or Beth v Melina (in an actual storyline about a credible title), the whole buildup/payoff formula would still be the same we've seen since 1996 or so... Women's wrestling can be a nice diversion, even a successful midcard act, but I still don't think it's the Second Coming of Bret v Shawn. |
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Post by CrazySting on May 2, 2009 17:34:04 GMT -5
Asife from the other issues mentioned WWE will never have a truly great women's division because they hired mostly on looks. And they push women, mainly on that. It's not that hot women can't be great wrestlers, they can be, but there are a lot of less photogenic women out there that are terrific wrestlers too, and WWE aren't interested.
Kong- arguably the best women's wrestler in the U.S right now, isn't gorgeous. They got rid of Angelina Love because they didn't think she was attractive enough. Shantelle Taylor, who is perfectly attractive, wasn't good enough for them. Same reason cheerleader Melissa didn't get a contract after her tryout.
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 2, 2009 17:37:52 GMT -5
I was actually on the Shimmer boards, and I got a whole lot of heat while I was on there, and one of the reasons was, I felt Shimmer wasn't as character driven as it could have been, and talked about how TNA is the happy medium of women's wrestling, with WWE and Shimmer being the two extremes. Shimmer is good, but, they still need to put over the fact that some of the women there are hot. And, I don't think they want to do that, maybe for there own ethical reasons. So, instead of maybe selling pictorials of the girls and making money off it, they just put photo galleries on the website. Hell, some of the chicks in Shimmer do it themselves, putting out pictures of themselves to get over, and I think Shimmer should somewhat capitalize on that.
Also, they are too "straight up wrestling", and they lack characters. And, I'm not saying do the Wrestlicious deal and steal Simon Dean's old entire gimmick, or steal Cherry's gimmick, but have people who are a little different. Like, Nikki Roxx in Shimmer was ok, but Roxxi Laveau, and then later Roxxi with the short hair, that was something interesting when seen on television, because it stood out. I really hope WWE or ROH gets a hold of Roxxi, because she stands out. I also hope Roxxi keeps somewhat short hair, and a different style of dress and attitude, because I makes her stand out. Most of the girls in TNA stand out, but in Shimmer and WWE, for the most part, the girls don't stand out. And I think that's what Shimmer needs to go from one place to another.
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Post by parder on May 2, 2009 17:44:19 GMT -5
I'm surprised someone like Loki who always complains about how stale the WWE product is today doesn't see the potential in something genuinely FRESH (at least in the past few years) - competitive, athletic, well worked matches between talented attractive women of all shapes, sizes, and gimmicks (not just the WWE stereotypes) based on meaningful angles and storylines. TNA had a fair degree of success with it before Gail Kim left. Shimmer is also still in business and going strong after 4 years, with ROH very happy to recognise their title and showcase the best of the (non-TNA) bunch on their TV show and PPVs. I'm not salivating at that idea because, to put it simple, I don't think a solid and competent Women's Division couldn't change much in the current WWE's landscape. When I complain about the staleness of the product, I complain about the booking formula. So, be it HHH v Orton or Beth v Melina (in an actual storyline about a credible title), the whole buildup/payoff formula would still be the same we've seen since 1996 or so... Women's wrestling can be a nice diversion, even a successful midcard act, but I still don't think it's the Second Coming of Bret v Shawn. Got ya. But I didn't say it could be that big or some kind of panacea, and doubt it ever will. I think you misinterpreted my point about offering something fresh. I wasn't really thinking of Bret and Shawn specifically and more just the general concept of pushing exciting new things in different parts of the card, based on Andrew's point about smaller wrestlers changing perceptions. I'm just a firm believer in the idea that a promotion is at its most successful when it is trying to be innovative (though not stupid and keeping the main fundamentals) and - crucially- is offering something for everyone. And right now I don't think WWE does that enough. The women are merely one aspect of that, but clearly not the whole thing. |
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Post by Snitsky on May 2, 2009 17:46:02 GMT -5
you're not understanding what i mean... leyla miliani is very pretty i often wondered why she didnt get a contract and what is the deciding factor for the girls who didnt win to get a contract but i agree it seems you are better off if you do not win these are the girls who were in the search the year layla won Layla El - Winner Jen England - Runner-up J.T. Tinney - 3rd Place Milena Roucka - 4th Place Erica Chevillar - 5th Place Rebecca DiPietro - 6th Place Maryse Ouellet - 7th Place Amy Zidian - 8th Place Interesting that the person who came in 7th is now the WWE diva's champ and the winner has had bogus storylines and not that much TV time...hmmmm makes you wonder . you finally get my drift..... |
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nt86
Don Corleone
How to bump like a maniac and not end up in hospital
Posts: 1,442
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Post by nt86 on May 2, 2009 17:46:39 GMT -5
Just a hunch, but does anyone think that if Alundra Blayze never went over to WCW and trashed the Women's Title, WWE might have not started all the T&A crap in the first place? I don't know the exact story of what happened between Blayze and McMahon, but maybe he saw her actions as disloyalty and letting him down when he made her one of the stars of the New Generation era. Vince may have thought "f*** it" and scrapped the division at least for its competitive nature.
Keep in mind back then, the women's matches did genuinely go over with the fans. The Summerslam 94 match between Blayze and Nakano was one of the best women's matches on American soil I've watched till today. The crowd in the open air arena was really into it. Nakano was a classic monster and Blayze the resilient heroine.
Blayze was scheduled to wrestle Aja Kong at the 96 Royal Rumble but ithe division was dead just before the end of 95. Women's wrestling then shifted to WCW who had an agreement going with a Japanese women's promotion called GAEA Japan. Blayze/Madusa had some notable matches. Came to a close when she lost a pretty good loser retires match against Akira Hokuto at the GAB 97. That division got scrapped after I think Bischoff fell out with the GAEA founder.
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Post by CrazySting on May 2, 2009 17:53:20 GMT -5
also think there may be the issue of whose willing to play ball, so to speak. you finally get my drift..... Wasnt there always that question of how Candice got a contract straight away when she didn't even get in the top ten of the diva search? For what it's worth, I'm sure there are plenty of divas who got a push without having a main eventer boyfriend, but there are some who did need that. Some are known (McCool) and some aren't. |
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Post by Snitsky on May 2, 2009 18:01:35 GMT -5
you finally get my drift..... Wasnt there always that question of how Candice got a contract straight away when she didn't even get in the top ten of the diva search? For what it's worth, I'm sure there are plenty of divas who got a push without having a main eventer boyfriend, but there are some who did need that. Some are known (McCool) and some aren't. candice michelles signing hmmm -LOL let me keep quiet before i get accused of gthinking i know inside info she adds nothing to the divas division and is injury prone yet is given chance after chance after chance...just like ashley the ones who got a push based on their ability IMO can be counted on one hand..in some cases i think they probably do have talent but having someone to help doesnt hurt...often makes one wonder why certain divas are still employed when they clearly add nothing to the roster and will not be mised if they are endevoured I actually respect McCool for improving in the ring..taker isnt the first or last guy to get his girlfriend/side piece a push and probably wil not be the last I wonder how the divas who have real talent feel like katie lea? i remember CM Punk saying in an interview he had so much respect fror beth because she was really trying hard for many years to make it |
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on May 2, 2009 23:53:01 GMT -5
I was actually on the Shimmer boards, and I got a whole lot of heat while I was on there, and one of the reasons was, I felt Shimmer wasn't as character driven as it could have been, and talked about how TNA is the happy medium of women's wrestling, with WWE and Shimmer being the two extremes. Shimmer is good, but, they still need to put over the fact that some of the women there are hot. And, I don't think they want to do that, maybe for there own ethical reasons. So, instead of maybe selling pictorials of the girls and making money off it, they just put photo galleries on the website. Hell, some of the chicks in Shimmer do it themselves, putting out pictures of themselves to get over, and I think Shimmer should somewhat capitalize on that. Also, they are too "straight up wrestling", and they lack characters. And, I'm not saying do the Wrestlicious deal and steal Simon Dean's old entire gimmick, or steal Cherry's gimmick, but have people who are a little different. Like, Nikki Roxx in Shimmer was ok, but Roxxi Laveau, and then later Roxxi with the short hair, that was something interesting when seen on television, because it stood out. I really hope WWE or ROH gets a hold of Roxxi, because she stands out. I also hope Roxxi keeps somewhat short hair, and a different style of dress and attitude, because I makes her stand out. Most of the girls in TNA stand out, but in Shimmer and WWE, for the most part, the girls don't stand out. And I think that's what Shimmer needs to go from one place to another. That viewpoint on Shimmer is exactly how I feel. I used to watch Shimmer religiously, but after a while I stopped because it simply got kinda boring. Sure they have spectacular female wrestlers, and some of the matches are amazing. The problem is, the promotion had very few "characters", and virtually no storylines. It got to the point where after watching 12 DVD volumes, I felt like I was watching the same thing over and over again. And in many ways, I was. I respect the hell out of their wrestlers (i.e. I am now a Sara Del Rey fan for life), but the booking simply lacked variety. TNA on the other hand has plenty of characters and storylines, and it also has some great wrestlers. Sure Shimmer consistently puts on better actual matches than TNA, and WWE probably has more eye candy than TNA. But for a well-rounded offering, I think TNA has it down very good. |
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Post by Snitsky on May 6, 2009 9:55:06 GMT -5
I was just thinking that out of the 16 WWE Divas these are the Divas on the current roster who didnt do any kind of porn/topless modelling prior to WWE
Nattie
Beth
Bella quads
katie lea
michelle mccool
jillian hall
layla(rumor has it she has noodes but i have never seen them)
Eve
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