spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,667
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Post by spagett on Oct 6, 2009 11:34:02 GMT -5
Here's the thing that gets me. They JUST had a Hell in a Cell match. What the WWE once considered THE fued ender. HBK/HHH ended there, Lesnar/Taker ended there, HHH/Foley (their main fued) ended there. So you're expecting your audience to believe that the next step up from a match of this high magnitude and brutality is...a No Holds Barred Iron Man match. A match that, as people have mentioned with a few exceptions (Lesnar/Angle being the big one) is 50 minutes of holds and slow pacing and 10 minutes of actual match. To me, that's kind of like saying 'You know what you're going to do next after going to Las Vegas and striking it rich...going to Blackpool Pleasure Beach!'. Both are kinda cool in their own ways, but one is super awesome and the other...is Blackpool Pleasure Beach. And also, I wouldn't mind Cena/Orton again if it didn't feel like the only reason they're fueding at all is so that the bookers can throw every match stipulation at them to use. Having watched the promo on Raw I swear Cena's promo was just to annoy the IWC or as a bet to see how much he could say with a straight face Talking about it being THE rivalry and that the fans were all on their feet and that the fans know when it's Cena/Orton it is epic and legendary and all that crap. Surely Cena must know as he is saying it it's all rubbish and a lie? |
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Post by Melissalicious on Oct 6, 2009 11:44:20 GMT -5
Having watched the promo on Raw I swear Cena's promo was just to annoy the IWC or as a bet to see how much he could say with a straight face Talking about it being THE rivalry and that the fans were all on their feet and that the fans know when it's Cena/Orton it is epic and legendary and all that crap. Surely Cena must know as he is saying it it's all rubbish and a lie? Honestly, the rivalry had the potentiality to be epic. I remember watching Orton and Cena wrestle at the Eddie Guerrero tribute and thought they could be amazing. This has been less than amazing. Not even really interesting at all. It's really disappointing, and I wish that I felt the excitement Cena claims the fans feel. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Oct 6, 2009 11:46:35 GMT -5
Here's the thing that gets me. They JUST had a Hell in a Cell match. What the WWE once considered THE fued ender. HBK/HHH ended there, Lesnar/Taker ended there, HHH/Foley (their main fued) ended there. So you're expecting your audience to believe that the next step up from a match of this high magnitude and brutality is...a No Holds Barred Iron Man match. A match that, as people have mentioned with a few exceptions (Lesnar/Angle being the big one) is 50 minutes of holds and slow pacing and 10 minutes of actual match. To me, that's kind of like saying 'You know what you're going to do next after going to Las Vegas and striking it rich...going to Blackpool Pleasure Beach!'. Both are kinda cool in their own ways, but one is super awesome and the other...is Blackpool Pleasure Beach. And also, I wouldn't mind Cena/Orton again if it didn't feel like the only reason they're fueding at all is so that the bookers can throw every match stipulation at them to use. Having watched the promo on Raw I swear Cena's promo was just to annoy the IWC or as a bet to see how much he could say with a straight face Talking about it being THE rivalry and that the fans were all on their feet and that the fans know when it's Cena/Orton it is epic and legendary and all that crap. Surely Cena must know as he is saying it it's all rubbish and a lie? Well, first I'd like to clarify I don't believe in an IWC because the concept is crazy considering it basically says 'Noone can like someone because other people can, OF COURSE it means you're just some kind of sheep'. That kind of mentality that, in our society, should be taken behind the woodshed and shot. Second, I honestly can't blame them for hyping up the match like that. It's the WWE, of course they're going to say their guys have had the best fued ever even if it isn't actually true. I'm not going to agree with it at all (Heck, I'm enjoying Morrison/Ziggler more then I'm enjoying Cena/Orton at this stage) but it's just something any company promoting an entertainment event would do. Third, he might. But he's rolling in money so he's not going to care THAT much.  |
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329 
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Oct 6, 2009 12:06:54 GMT -5
Orton is one of those guys I look forward to seeing jobbed out to this generation's Ultimate Warrior in 90 seconds.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Oct 6, 2009 12:08:25 GMT -5
Orton is one of those guys I look forward to seeing jobbed out to this generation's Ultimate Warrior in 90 seconds. In other words, you want him to lose to Cena again? |
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Post by Sharpy Snow on Oct 6, 2009 12:16:46 GMT -5
I thought that was by far the best match/part of the night. My opinion of Iron Man match? I hate Iron Man matchs. I'm bored of Orton/Cena. It's not a good mix. My reason for hating an Iron Man match is in a 3 hour PPV, that's a third of the PPV gone right there and that's not even counting entrance times (With Ortons "slow walk entrance" being one of the longer ones in the company) , celebration/WAH I'M GOING TO SMACKDOWN moments and pre-match video packages. Plus potential overtime in the event of a draw! That additional 30-40 minutes or so could have been used on another match, say for the ECW, IC or US title, persuming one of them doesn't get on the card. Because right now you have roughly 1 hour and 45 minutes to fit in a Smackdown World Title match (+ Takers long entrance), a Raw VS Smackdown match (Persumably) and every other match, as well as backstage skits and the like. Chances are DX/Jerishow will be on to and the DX entrance is also one of the longer ones due to the whole "Are you Ready?" part. Not to mention, we're getting Cena/Orton AGAIN! |
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Oct 6, 2009 12:46:50 GMT -5
Looking forward to this, can't understand all the whining and crying about it. i genuinely cannot believe that quote you posted. Just.......wow. I got fed up of most WWE programming back in 2005, and have watched very very sporadically since then. Watched a lot of Smackdown in 06 and 07 though, but that tailed off around early-mid 2008. I only now watch the shows on repeats if I saw something interesting in the results/spoilers. I was still watching a lot of the PPVs until around 2007, watched a fair few in 08, then tailedo ff again. Cena bores me. Orton was really entertaining me for the first time at the start of the year but his booking's turned him into a bore for me. Having seen their matches from 07 and 08, I have no desire to se anymore, as the 2 of them paired togther also bore me. I don't care about the tacked on gimmicks or stipulations. Wow Cena leaves Raw. The brand split doesn't matter much anymore and its not like he wouldnt go back to Raw eventually if he did lose. No DQ gives hope of a decent match but theyve been in several gimmick matches together so even that doesn't matter anymore. No Countout is hardly a fun stipulation. And Ironman matches can be good. Cena had a decent 1 hour match with HBK, althuogh the end-at-any-time feel helped it, as did the fact it was HBK, since as much as I did like Orton at the start of the year I could still admit that he wasn't the best wrestler. Cena/Orton brawls have been done before- see the last 2 damn PPVs for them. If you need a new gimmick every month to hook people into a match then chances are there's something wrong. And saying "if you're not psyched for it you really must hate wrestling" thats just amazing. Totally ignorant of other viewpoints. You're looking forward to the match, good for you. I however couldnt contemplate being hyped for another Cena/Orton, or HHH/Orton match for that matter, and as such will continue my long streak of not watching the PPVs, whether its 'free' on Sky Sports (which isnt free as we pay for the Sky Sports package) or on Box Office. If it does turn out to be good, maybe it'll motivate me to get the repeat. Doubtful though as 1 match does not a show make for me. |
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Post by Prince Petty on Oct 6, 2009 12:55:42 GMT -5
So what happens after the Iron Man match? What gimmicks do they have left to wear out?
I call for a barb wire explosive death match... on a scaffold.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Oct 6, 2009 12:58:54 GMT -5
People say 'AGAIN!!??' like it isn't standard for feuds to last this long. HHH/Rock did. July to October isn't so bad. And like it or not, they are the two biggest stars.
I too did get the feeling that Cena was saying things to annoy the IWC, but that was only because of what I read on here before the show - that the fans don't want to see them again. His 'By the sounds of it, you all want to see us go again' was sort of the WWE saying 'This is happening because the people in the arena cheer it'.
The feud has just been really uninspired though. Nothing has happened. You can't point to a particular Raw and say 'That's the week THAT happened' because nothing has. There's been no character development. If for example you had Cena take a more psychotic turn to his character to stand up to Orton in the build up to HIAC (while still being John Cena) then you could bill Orton as the one guy that could get close to rattling Cena's composure. We just need something. Some development in the storyline.
Given that these are the two biggest stars, you'd think going into the final month of the feud that there would be some story, but there's been nothing.
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Post by Paco S. Loco on Oct 6, 2009 13:40:26 GMT -5
59 minutes of Orton with Cena in a chinlock
He breaks it to go for a punt. Misses it Charlie Brown style and ends up on his back.
Five Knuckle Shuffle
FU
1-2-3 just before time expires and Cena wins Infinity-0 because he's too damn godly for anything he does to count as a mere 1 point.
They fight each other on opposing teams at Survivor Series to "keep things fresh". Then it's revealed that the December PPV's new gimmick is that it's a 24 hour PPV.
Main event- Cena vs. Orton for the first time ever! and the match will be best of 5 falls where each fall is an iron man match. First two falls 1 hour, third and fourth falls 3 hours, fifth fall 5 hours and takes place inside the hell in a cell.
If Orton wins Cena's number of guaranteed rematches is limited to ONLY the next 24 PPVs
If Cena wins Orton must face Triple H for 5798420 consecutive PPVs before he gets his 23902390 consectutive rematches against Cena.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Oct 6, 2009 14:41:00 GMT -5
They badly need to elevate more heels so that we don't keep getting the same one in all the Championship matches. They're not even trying to do that.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Oct 6, 2009 14:44:33 GMT -5
They badly need to elevate more heels so that we don't keep getting the same one in all the Championship matches. They're not even trying to do that. They're now starting with Swagger. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 6, 2009 14:57:06 GMT -5
People say 'AGAIN!!??' like it isn't standard for feuds to last this long. HHH/Rock did. July to October isn't so bad. And like it or not, they are the two biggest stars. I too did get the feeling that Cena was saying things to annoy the IWC, but that was only because of what I read on here before the show - that the fans don't want to see them again. His 'By the sounds of it, you all want to see us go again' was sort of the WWE saying 'This is happening because the people in the arena cheer it'. The feud has just been really uninspired though. Nothing has happened. You can't point to a particular Raw and say 'That's the week THAT happened' because nothing has. There's been no character development. If for example you had Cena take a more psychotic turn to his character to stand up to Orton in the build up to HIAC (while still being John Cena) then you could bill Orton as the one guy that could get close to rattling Cena's composure. We just need something. Some development in the storyline. Given that these are the two biggest stars, you'd think going into the final month of the feud that there would be some story, but there's been nothing. That is my biggest problem with it. No storyline to speak of. I said it already...HHH vs. Rock could happen multiple times because there was always a different dynamic to it. They were midcarders, now they are main event! Rock and HHH both had a stable, now Rock is alone and HHH has an army and the owner of the company on his side! Rock was a bad guy, now he is a crowd favorite and HHH is the most hated wrestler! You know. Differences. Little things that make you want to see them go at it again because it will be different this time. Cena vs. Orton has never been different. Its always the same thing every time since they started a rivalry. For instance, if during the Cell match Cena had snapped and started being really brutal, lost, then the next night apologized to his fans for losing focus on winning because for the first time in his life he really wanted to hurt someone. He explains that he lost his cool and it wont happen again. Then Orton comes out, lays down those stipulations and taunts Cena saying he is becoming more like Orton himself, with Cena struggling with the revelation. The next few weeks Cena tows a line between being a sportsman and going too far...then the match happens. THAT would be interesting. THAT would add mystique to the match and make me want to see it all over again because it would be different. Instead its just, hey everyone, wanna see us fight again? All right, well we will! I mean really. That just isn't enough. This isn't Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle. I need more than that to be interested, personally. |
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Post by Metalheadbanger Man on Oct 6, 2009 17:03:27 GMT -5
I actually do wanna see them go for 60 minutes. I wanna see them prove everybody wrong and deliver some quality entertainment.
Either that, or in the 1st minute, Cena will lock Orton in the STF, and then Orton will tap continually for 59 minutes.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Oct 6, 2009 17:59:40 GMT -5
You are really reaching here. Rock and HHH were nowhere near as overdone as Cena and Orton at that point. I dont think they even had that many PPV singles matches against each other. There was the ladder match a few years prior when they were both midcarders, Backlash, and then the match you are talking about. I mean, I dont even care who wins this match anyways. Even if it ends up being a good match, I have no interest. It wont, though. Also, a No DQ stipulation on an Iron Man Match is just stupid, and goes to show you how much faith WWE has in these guys putting on a 60 minute showcase. Rock vs. HHH on PPV (includes tag and multi man matches) 1. Survivor Series 1996 2. In Your House: Final Four 3. In Your House: Fully Loaded 4. Summerslam '98 5. Over the Edge '99 6. Fully Loaded '99 7. Unforgiven '99 8. Survivor Series '99 9. Wrestlemania 2000 10. Backlash 2000 Cena vs. Orton on PPV 1. Backlash 2007 2. Vengeance: Night of Champions 3. Summerslam 2007 4. Unforgiven 2007 5. No Way Out 2008 6. Wrestlemania 24 7. Backlash 2008 8. Summerslam 2009 9. Breaking Point 10. Hell in a Cell So its the exact same number of encounters, Rock and HHH had six one on one's, and Orton-Cena have only had five. The no DQ is actually quite the opposite of stupid. Its actually brilliant. No DQ can do a great job of masking limitations they may have, because we know they won't be able to pull of a straight wrestling match for 60 minutes. Look at what you typed. Cena and Orton have been going at it since 07. With several PPVs close together. You taking a 3 years that Cena and Orton have feud in. Your comparing it against Rock vs. HHH that went five years. You said HHH vs. Rock had six singles matches. Orton vs. Cena in your words ONLY have five. Yeah a one match difference that HHH vs. Rock spread out in 5 years. You also need to take in the fact of HHH vs. Rock character changes. The fact that half of it wasn't the Main Event feud. Yeah it started first Rock debut as Rocky Maivia. HHH was the blueblood. Now from Final Four to Fully Loaded that over a year break between the two. Also complete character changes. You now went from Blue chipper Rocky Maivia (a Face) to The nation Rock (Heel). You also have Blueblood HHH (Heel) now Degenrate HHH (Face). Then you go to Face Rock to again character change HHH who now a heel with a badass attitude instead of a degenrate from Over the Edge on. Cena and Orton in the three years. It been Cena the face vs. Orton the heel. Cena hardly changed and Orton not that much either. That why HHH vs. Rock was way better because the who was the face and heel changed. As well as over haul characters. As time went on HHH and the Rock where nothing like the characters they started as. HHH was three completely different characters in that time frame and changed heel, face, and heel in those three changes. The Rock went to Rocky Maivia these goody two shoes face that was all smiles. Then to the Rock went heel to face with it and was nothing like Rocky Maivia. |
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Post by diegorivera on Oct 6, 2009 19:03:52 GMT -5
I think the match will be good, perhaps even great. Cena actually knows how to work when he really tries and has gone nearly an hour in a match before, (abet, with Shawn Micheals...) I'm less thrilled with Orton's work, but he has his moments and the no-DQ rule may bring out some of what he had against Foley years ago.
But even if the match is great, even if it's somehow the undisputed match of the year, even if by some miracle this is the Ironman match that all others are measured by, IT WILL NOT MATTER! Orton and Cena are beyond tired now. You may be able to compare match quality of Cena/Orton to Rock/HHH but everything else doesn't match. I don't expect or even want Cena to be anything like the Rock, but Rock could make any match, from an epic showdown with Austin or Foley to a otherwise forgettable fracus with Billy Gun or Al Snow fell like something to watch. I'll forgive the eyerolling hyperbole from Raw, but even then, Cena lacks the ability to convince me that this feud is anything but played out. And while Orton has shined at moments, his star doesn't burn half as bright as pre-quad injury HHH. He was a house of fire having great match after great match and a heel I wanted to see get the crap kicked out of him every time he had a match. It's sad...Orton was so close to that earlier this year. But when a few fans cheered and the WWE insisted on tossing his smooth, psychotic, vicious character under a bus for a typical chickensh*t heel all was lost.
I hope these boys have a good match. I hope they have a damn good match, one of their best and most memorable, because then it will be the only thing worth remembering from this misfire of a feud. Something we can look back on in a year or two and say, "Man! Remember that Orton/Cena fued from mid-09? God that sucked! It felt like they had a million friggen matches! It was so boring! But you have to admit, that Ironman match they had to end it was awesome."
It's a shame really...I really wanted Cena and Orton to be the next Rock and Austin. I don't believe it would have even been as popular, or as memorable, but it could have been something special in it's own right. These were the two guys who came up together in OVW, managed to get pegged as the next guys to carry the company, became young champions and the faces of their brands and were to enter into a feud that would immortalize them both. But it just didn't happen... They'll be remembered for many things, good and bad, but this should have been what defined the careers of John Cena and Randy Orton. This should have been what Hogan/Savage, Flair/Steamboat, Raven/Dreamer and Hart/Micheals was: That great rivalry. I consider the fact that it failed so badly a far greater screw up by the WWE than even the Invasion...
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Post by seamonsters on Oct 6, 2009 19:57:43 GMT -5
I have a way to book this match that would please most people on here, and also base it on a match from Wrestlemania XII - just not the iron man match, but the Hollywood Backlot Brawl between Goldust and Piper. Base it on that, only in reverse.
The match starts the PPV. It has to. For an hour long match, with the winner returning for a tag match at the end, the winner needs time to recouperate.
So, the bell rings, Legacy run down, and a three on one beatdown happens. No DQ. In amongst this, Orton schoolboys/RKOs/whatever Cena. 1-2-3. Orton leads the match 1-0. Then, Orton runs. And runs and runs. No countout. Legacy keep Cena in the ring, while Orton runs as far as his car, gets in and drives. Legacy let Cena go, Cena goes and gets in his car.
With both men outside the arena, the referees decide that they can't just entertain the fans with a car chase (that might as well just be the same OJ footage they used as WM12 as far as anyone cares), so they have the next match. After that match, cut to the car chase footage, have the third match and repeat until the hour is up. Have Justin Roberts announce Orton as the winner, as he returns, just after the hour expires.
Orton wins, Cena's on Smackdown, and we're saved a 59 minute chinlock. Orton takes part in the tag match at the end, Cena comes in, gets Smackdown DQed, and his first blue brand fued begins.
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Kendo
AC Slater
7 time WC greatest hardcore champion. of all times!
Posts: 177
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Post by Kendo on Oct 6, 2009 20:47:23 GMT -5
JUST STOP WHINING.
The Kids LOVE Cena. Hes this gens Rock Or SCSA Or NWO Or or or.
And with a few wins over heels even though its a outside chance Orton may be getting pops. These kids grow out of cena like the re-drawn Clevland Jr.'s Pants. I'm Not a big cena fan, But just cause you cant have the "Word Life" John, You Cant See The Popularity of the Marine Cena. It was Good for Vinnie Mac cause he made a star.
Plus Remember the awesomness of Cena- Edge.
Cena is completley over And if edge is A face Bam i could see a Fire Pro style EXPLODING TIME BOMB TLC BARB-PEI CAGED MMA DEATH MATCH
LEAVE CENA ALONE
We've CENA Nuff
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Oct 6, 2009 21:03:59 GMT -5
JUST STOP WHINING. The Kids LOVE Cena. Hes this gens Rock Or SCSA Or NWO Or or or. And with a few wins over heels even though its a outside chance Orton may be getting pops. These kids grow out of cena like the re-drawn Clevland Jr.'s Pants. I'm Not a big cena fan, But just cause you cant have the "Word Life" John, You Cant See The Popularity of the Marine Cena. It was Good for Vinnie Mac cause he made a star. Plus Remember the awesomness of Cena- Edge. Cena is completley over And if edge is A face Bam i could see a Fire Pro style EXPLODING TIME BOMB TLC BARB-PEI CAGED MMA DEATH MATCH LEAVE CENA ALONE We've CENA Nuff That why Cena gets booed more then cheer in about half of the cities they go too. |
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Post by Robbymac on Oct 6, 2009 22:13:14 GMT -5
Rock vs. HHH on PPV (includes tag and multi man matches) 1. Survivor Series 1996 2. In Your House: Final Four 3. In Your House: Fully Loaded 4. Summerslam '98 5. Over the Edge '99 6. Fully Loaded '99 7. Unforgiven '99 8. Survivor Series '99 9. Wrestlemania 2000 10. Backlash 2000 Cena vs. Orton on PPV 1. Backlash 2007 2. Vengeance: Night of Champions 3. Summerslam 2007 4. Unforgiven 2007 5. No Way Out 2008 6. Wrestlemania 24 7. Backlash 2008 8. Summerslam 2009 9. Breaking Point 10. Hell in a Cell So its the exact same number of encounters, Rock and HHH had six one on one's, and Orton-Cena have only had five. The no DQ is actually quite the opposite of stupid. Its actually brilliant. No DQ can do a great job of masking limitations they may have, because we know they won't be able to pull of a straight wrestling match for 60 minutes. Look at what you typed. Cena and Orton have been going at it since 07. With several PPVs close together. You taking a 3 years that Cena and Orton have feud in. Your comparing it against Rock vs. HHH that went five years. You said HHH vs. Rock had six singles matches. Orton vs. Cena in your words ONLY have five. Yeah a one match difference that HHH vs. Rock spread out in 5 years. You also need to take in the fact of HHH vs. Rock character changes. The fact that half of it wasn't the Main Event feud. Yeah it started first Rock debut as Rocky Maivia. HHH was the blueblood. Now from Final Four to Fully Loaded that over a year break between the two. Also complete character changes. You now went from Blue chipper Rocky Maivia (a Face) to The nation Rock (Heel). You also have Blueblood HHH (Heel) now Degenrate HHH (Face). Then you go to Face Rock to again character change HHH who now a heel with a badass attitude instead of a degenrate from Over the Edge on. Cena and Orton in the three years. It been Cena the face vs. Orton the heel. Cena hardly changed and Orton not that much either. That why HHH vs. Rock was way better because the who was the face and heel changed. As well as over haul characters. As time went on HHH and the Rock where nothing like the characters they started as. HHH was three completely different characters in that time frame and changed heel, face, and heel in those three changes. The Rock went to Rocky Maivia these goody two shoes face that was all smiles. Then to the Rock went heel to face with it and was nothing like Rocky Maivia. Again...for the 80 billionth time in this thread. I was not saying the circumstances were the same I'm not saying the match is going to be the same I'm not saying I'm even all that excited about this match (I'm not) ALL I've been trying to say is there was a time when a match had the exact same type of criticism levied. Over-exposed feud, guys without the moveset to pull it off, etc...and it turned out to be a fabulous match. I don't even care if people complain about them having another match. This is more directed at people who are bitching that the match quality will suck. Also if you take out the Survivor Series '96 and IYH: Final Four matches there were 8 encounters over the exact same time period with the same number of one on one matches. Also there was a nearly 2 year break with Cena and Orton having hardly any run ins where Rock and HHH were feuding off an on seemingly non-stop for three years. |
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