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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 12, 2009 18:38:50 GMT -5
I Hopefully Hogan and Eric learned their lessons from seeing the success WWE had putting Eddie, Benoit, Rey and Jericho in the main event while WCW kept them stuck in the mid card. What success? Their world title runs were not that good. As compared to the title runs of the Super Heavyweights Mabel, Diesel, Yokozuna, or even Big Show? |
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Paco on Nov 12, 2009 19:21:18 GMT -5
Ah yes, the Mabel title run...Wait, you probably dreamt that.
I would definitely put Diesel and Yoko's world title reigns above Eddie, Rey and Jericho's (who sadly got what are probably the 3 worst World title reigns in recent history).
And on par with Benoit's.
Poor Big Show and his crappy little title reigns (besides the ECW one but there's no prestige in being Champ in today's ECW)
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 12, 2009 19:47:45 GMT -5
Yeah erm damn they tried pushing Mabel so futilely it felt like he was a champion during his King Mabel era.
By what criteria are we ranking these title reigns? While I agree those 3 little guys got crappy reigns, and Diesel wasn't as bad as many believe and Show was probably shafted just as much as Eddie and Jericho, but not nearly as bad as Rey, the "little guys" still were comparable and in most cases better draws. Clearly the problem was the booking and eras in which they reigned. That being said I think booking the average guys is a bit easier, especially in TNA where the talent established before the fan base is of a smaller stature than the WWE's talent.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Nov 13, 2009 1:23:18 GMT -5
I Hopefully Hogan and Eric learned their lessons from seeing the success WWE had putting Eddie, Benoit, Rey and Jericho in the main event while WCW kept them stuck in the mid card. What success? Their world title runs were not that good. Who said anything about title reigns? I was talking main event. All of them were/are top draws in WWE. Even if we were talking title reigns, it's no fault of their own, well except maybe Eddie because I read he wanted his run ended prematurely because the pressure was getting to him, but he was about to get another run before he died. Benoit or Rey were never going to be lengthy title holders, but in WWE they could hang with any main eventer while in WCW they never rose above mid card. Benoit briefly but too little, too late. That's my point. And Jericho was held down by HHH because he didn't like him, that is, if the stories are true. |
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Nov 13, 2009 1:44:42 GMT -5
Exactly one of whom ever made it above the midcard in WCW, and that was when Bischoff wasn't with the company in a creative capacity. So that track record doesn't really jive with me. When you have guys like Hogan, Hart, Savage, Nash, Sting, DDP, and Goldberg in the main event they couldn't make room. It was when Hogan left, Hart left, and Savage left that the midcard guys started to make a rise. Aside from Benoit.....which midcard guys rose, exactly? I mean, I guess if moving from WCW to WWF was counted as a "rise", I see what you mean, but otherwise.... |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Nov 13, 2009 1:51:40 GMT -5
When you have guys like Hogan, Hart, Savage, Nash, Sting, DDP, and Goldberg in the main event they couldn't make room. It was when Hogan left, Hart left, and Savage left that the midcard guys started to make a rise. Aside from Benoit.....which midcard guys rose, exactly? I mean, I guess if moving from WCW to WWF was counted as a "rise", I see what you mean, but otherwise.... Only guys I can think of were like, Scott Steiner and Booker T. but that was bound to happen eventually anyway. |
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Post by Schattenjager on Nov 13, 2009 1:52:11 GMT -5
WELL LEMME TELL YOU SOMETHING BROTHER
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Post by machomuta on Nov 13, 2009 8:01:08 GMT -5
What success? Their world title runs were not that good. All of them were/are top draws in WWE. . LOL. If they were top draws then they would have had longer title runs. |
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Post by manstis1804 on Nov 13, 2009 9:34:50 GMT -5
I agree with Hulk, I really miss the great working big men. Yokozuna, Vader, Bam Bam, Earthquake, these are the kind of guys wrestling needs more of. Awesome Kong is great and all, but we need a male version of that.
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Post by marqui78 on Nov 13, 2009 12:56:58 GMT -5
I tell you guys this big men sell tickets. I wish fans would realize this would benefit TNA. Having guys like Bison Smith, Ray Rowe, Jason Bane, Matt Morgan, SuperMex, Umaga, Big Daddy V, Joe, and Abyss make the show appear more hard hitting and appealing.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Nov 13, 2009 21:40:22 GMT -5
All of them were/are top draws in WWE. . LOL. If they were top draws then they would have had longer title runs. Andre, Piper and Dibiase never had any title runs. Guess those guys were curtain jerkers. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to watch the main event of Smackdown in England, with Jericho in the main event. |
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Post by manstis1804 on Nov 14, 2009 10:28:52 GMT -5
TNA could make the X division a bigger part of the company, and have guys like Daniels and AJ part of that. This way they can keep that fanbase that likes the smaller guys as well as gaining a different fanbase with big dudes that can work. Of course have them all on the same PPV, and maybe once in a while have a personal issue that crosses one over to the other. Weight classes are something professional wrestling needs to experiment with in order to get wrestlers of all sizes over rather than having big guys destroy little guys or having little guys pull of the predictable 'upset' on a big man.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Nov 14, 2009 18:15:21 GMT -5
There are a few things about this whole debate going on here. To list them:
1. this is coming from Hogan. While most wrestling fans respect his legacy, many are mistrusting of his record. They remember him proclaiming guys like Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, or Jericho to be "too small" to main event. They remember him burying Billy Kidman in a sideshow feud. They remember him playing a role in WCW's ultimate demise. So sufficed to say, they are suspicious of anything he says.
2. there is a tendency to confuse the idea of "big men" in wrestling with some of the lumbering apes we have seen in WWE for a while now. There is a tendency to think that all superheavyweight type wrestlers are slow, dull, and will inevitably get pushed to the moon for it.
and
3. for all of those who have come to enjoy TNA so far, there is an instant reaction of "OMG he's gonna bring in these talentless oxes and have them all squash AJ!"
Now, to offer some personal thoughts:
Physical size should not be the real issue here. It should be quality and booking. Lest we forget, Paul Heyman used Rhino and Mike Awesome as ECW's resident monsters, and he made them look like monsters. He booked them well, playing to their strengths. And not all "big men" are so called "hosses." Kane is probably one of the greatest "big men" of all times in terms of sheer talent. He is not only huge, but he is agile, he can put on a good match on any given night, a great one when he works with the right people.
Now, TNA has forged its own identity, separate from WWE. And one thing about WWE is the over-abundance of hosses and steroid poster boys. TNA could make itself distinct by having only a few superheavyweights, but by making sure they are actually worthwhile. I would say TNA would be best served by having at most, three or four "big men" on the roster: one as a heel, one a sa face, and maybe a tag team as well. It sets up all the right scenarios for that kind of talent. Lets face it, it always gets a good pop when, during a battle royal, the two big guys have a stare off and then go for each other.
Some of the names mentioned here would be interesting to see in TNA, to be sure. The only problem I see with it is that they would kind of have to overhaul the current roster. Some of the guys they currently have as their resident "big men" would be harder to work in that way anymore. Fans are too used to seeing some guys like Rhino and Abyss. They have been watered down over the years, and it would make it harder to suddenly turn them around in that respect. It would be better to trim the roster down a bit, keeping perhaps just Matt Morgan and the on/off Lashley as their resident superheavyweights. Then, bringing in some new names would be far more striking and interesting. And it would keep such stars as the impressive looking exception, instead of the rule like in WWE.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2009 20:38:44 GMT -5
When you have guys like Hogan, Hart, Savage, Nash, Sting, DDP, and Goldberg in the main event they couldn't make room. It was when Hogan left, Hart left, and Savage left that the midcard guys started to make a rise. Aside from Benoit.....which midcard guys rose, exactly? I mean, I guess if moving from WCW to WWF was counted as a "rise", I see what you mean, but otherwise.... Jericho,Show and Guerrero If we're talking of those who went to WWF |
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Paco on Nov 14, 2009 20:43:35 GMT -5
Show? As in Big Show?
He rose? He was already a main eventer the second he entered WCW.
Literally. He won the WCW Championship in his first match.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 15, 2009 9:20:36 GMT -5
I tell you guys this big men sell tickets. I wish fans would realize this would benefit TNA. Having guys like Bison Smith, Ray Rowe, Jason Bane, Matt Morgan, SuperMex, Umaga, Big Daddy V, Joe, and Abyss make the show appear more hard hitting and appealing. You tell me that, but on what basis do you make that claim? When this century has that been true? I have pointed out the numerous failures of recent tries with big men in this era and how fans are rather ho-hum on them while the more average size guys are getting the consistent pops and selling the merchandise. I bet Vince wishes fans would realize how great big men are too because he loves big men too, but he loves money more, so that's why Rey and Jeff got to the main event. |
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 15, 2009 9:34:36 GMT -5
All of them were/are top draws in WWE. . LOL. If they were top draws then they would have had longer title runs. A bit of irony. I agree with your sig about Macho Man being one of the best. However, he never had a reign that wasn't second act to Hogan. That doesn't make him less of a wrestler anymore than HHH upstaging Jericho makes him unworthy of a title. And as for length of title reigns, here is from the list of WCW champions: Randy Savage 3 April 19, 1998 1 Denver, CO Spring Stampede (1998) [38][39] Hollywood Hogan 4 April 20, 1998 77 Colorado, Springs, CO Nitro Won a no-disqualification match. Randy Savage 4 July 11, 1999 1 Ft. Lauderdale, FL Bash at the Beach (1999) Savage and Sid Vicious defeated Nash and Sting at in a tag team match where the one who scored the victory would be the champion.[53] Hulk Hogan 6 July 12, 1999 62 Jacksonville, FL Nitro [54] Savage has 2 one day reigns. Jeff Jarret was WCW champion for 58 days total. Savage was WCW chamion for 53. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2009 13:54:13 GMT -5
As long as the big guys are actually wrestlers, and not just bodybuilders that have gone through a quick wrestling training session, I'm fine with it.
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Post by marqui78 on Nov 15, 2009 15:53:59 GMT -5
I tell you guys this big men sell tickets. I wish fans would realize this would benefit TNA. Having guys like Bison Smith, Ray Rowe, Jason Bane, Matt Morgan, SuperMex, Umaga, Big Daddy V, Joe, and Abyss make the show appear more hard hitting and appealing. You tell me that, but on what basis do you make that claim? When this century has that been true? I have pointed out the numerous failures of recent tries with big men in this era and how fans are rather ho-hum on them while the more average size guys are getting the consistent pops and selling the merchandise. I bet Vince wishes fans would realize how great big men are too because he loves big men too, but he loves money more, so that's why Rey and Jeff got to the main event. Hell Undertaker for one. Also I'm not talking about the guys like Renee Dupree and Chris Masters. Bastisa, Goldberg, Mark Henry was over and impressive. Writers want to please the smart marks and it hurt the business. Rey draws in the Latinos thats the only reason Vince cares about him. If he could do that a 6'7 hispainic wrestler then Rey would be a jobber. LOL!!!! |
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Post by hajimenoippo on Nov 15, 2009 16:21:55 GMT -5
I tell you guys this big men sell tickets. I wish fans would realize this would benefit TNA. Having guys like Bison Smith, Ray Rowe, Jason Bane, Matt Morgan, SuperMex, Umaga, Big Daddy V, Joe, and Abyss make the show appear more hard hitting and appealing. You tell me that, but on what basis do you make that claim? When this century has that been true? I have pointed out the numerous failures of recent tries with big men in this era and how fans are rather ho-hum on them while the more average size guys are getting the consistent pops and selling the merchandise. I bet Vince wishes fans would realize how great big men are too because he loves big men too, but he loves money more, so that's why Rey and Jeff got to the main event. hmm, it's not that vince "loves big guys", otherwise instead of Mysterio, Hardy, Christian, Edge, or Punk we'd be seeing Snitsky, Heidenreich, Dupree, Cade, and Kozlov as champions. Big guys stand out, Abyss, Joe, and Rhino haven't been pushed as monsters since Matt Morgan has come along. It's like there's a bias against big men in pro wrestling when Wrestling for the most part has been built on the massive backs of them. From muscle heads like Batista, Cena, Sting, Hogan, and Savage. to Big fatsos like Show, Vader, Yoko, or Joe. There's no problems with stacking a roster with big talented guys and still keeping the smaller, faster guys. |
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helped $lim jinx NXT. Woops
