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Post by Throwback on Mar 29, 2010 12:41:56 GMT -5
who from the Hart family was there? Was it just the siblings and The Hart Dynasty? Or were Jim Neidhart and all the kids there too?
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Post by rk9295 on Mar 29, 2010 12:43:13 GMT -5
When Bret returned Jan 4, it was the first time I had watched a full Raw since 2001. Usually I fast-forward 90% of it. I couldn't believe I was seeing Bret and Shawn in the same ring. I "marked" for the first time in I don't know how long. It really felt like I stepped back in time.
And then Vince came out. And everything was fine until....Vince had to kick him in the stomach. And that's where it all started to go wrong. That was a big mistake. As soon as that happened I knew a Wrestlemania match was in the works. There was no way Bret was ever going to be able to wrestle again. I really don't know what the WWE was thinking on this. Obviously Vince was never going to hit him back. What we got didn't even resemble any sort of a match, it was a mugging. I watched 10 or so out of shape, over the hill, Hart members beat up one old man. And that's when I saw it.
The Hart Dynasty does a Hart Attack from the top rope, which clearly saved the match from total failure. I thought "Oh man you know what they could have done here?" It clear to me Bret should have been The Hart Dynasty's manager since Jan 4. The could have had Dynasty face DX for the belts at Wrestlemania or if Shawn was hell bent on retiring by the hands of the Undertaker, have Dynasty face DX at The Royal Rumble.
Either way have Bret get his revenge on Shawn by taking part as a manager in a non-wrestling role. Make HBK the heel, have it in Canada, have Dynasty take the belts from DX, have Bret done ONE sharpshooter on HBK while HHH is beats down by Dynasty. You could even have Vince as the manager of DX. And when Bret has applied the sharpshooter long enough to Shawn he does the sharpshooter to Vince. And that's it.
The crowd would have went f***ing crazy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2010 12:51:07 GMT -5
What I expected (or at least hoped to see) was more classic over-the-top acting from Vince during his beatdown, culminating in Vince having an absolute nuclear meltdown while in a sharpshooter that Bret refused to break, like in his match with Jerry Lawler. Instead, it was a whole lot of Bret beating on a motionless Vince for so long that it became uncomfortable to watch and made you feel a little bad for Vince. Also, Bruce Hart looked like Paul Williams.
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Post by mauled on Mar 29, 2010 12:59:14 GMT -5
I think one of the problems about the whole "bret gets revenge" scenario is that in real life he DID get revenge. He kncoked Vince out who then staggered off with his tail between his legs. This was just window dressing at best and at worst a car wreck.
Hell maybe a better ending would have been putting Vince in the sharpshooter before the Hart dynasty double crossed Bret
And the fact Bret is doing chair shots then stops to look at the crowd for a reactions not getting any then going back to it simply showed he has lost a LOT of his famed in ringstory telling ability.
To be honest if Bret should have done this story in TNA and if he should be angry at anyone it should have been Hogan for burying him in WCW and Bishoff for wasting his talents. A much more interesting storyline there than the predictable crap with Vince.
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Post by The Verdict on Mar 29, 2010 13:14:17 GMT -5
I think one of the problems about the whole "bret gets revenge" scenario is that in real life he DID get revenge. He kncoked Vince out who then staggered off with his tail between his legs. This was just window dressing at best and at worst a car wreck. Hell maybe a better ending would have been putting Vince in the sharpshooter before the Hart dynasty double crossed Bret And the fact Bret is doing chair shots then stops to look at the crowd for a reactions not getting any then going back to it simply showed he has lost a LOT of his famed in ringstory telling ability. To be honest if Bret should have done this story in TNA and if he should be angry at anyone it should have been Hogan for burying him in WCW and Bishoff for wasting his talents. A much more interesting storyline there than the predictable crap with Vince. It also doesn't help that Bret already shook Vince's hand and made peace with him back in '06
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Post by rrm15 on Mar 29, 2010 13:17:03 GMT -5
It was just bad. I love Bret but this whole angle has kinda made him not as appealing to me, which makes me sad. The whole thing went on way too long, the twist with the lumberjakcs at the beginning was random and unnecessary, and it just got uncomfortable after a while. Bret looked like a crazy old man and I even felt bad for Vince at some points.
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by comahan on Mar 29, 2010 13:17:46 GMT -5
Just posted this in another thread, then I saw this thread, so;
I didnt mind the Bret/Vince match. I knew coming in that thats basically what was going to happen. I didnt like the late family addition and obvious double cross, but I wont complain about that. What made that match bleh to me was that they could have accomplished the exact same thing in half the time. It was 12 minutes of drawn out beatdowns where the ONLY times the crowd got into at all were the sharpshooter teases. I loved the sharpshooter at the end, but it was almost a 'thank god' type feeling mixed in there with the markdom of Vince in the Sharpshooter that, had it been done three prolonged beatdowns and 5 mins sooner, would have been like 5x greater imo.
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Post by AndyUK on Mar 29, 2010 13:55:56 GMT -5
I'm not gonna complain about it. I wasn't expecting much at all, I was even surprised Bret did a couple of elbow drops and the old jump-on-leg from the ropes spot so that just shows how low my expectations were. It definitely won't go down as a classic, it is probably Bret's worst ''match'' ever but you know, I'm just glad we've been able to see Bret back in the WWE to do this feud and get a proper sendoff regardless. The way his career ended before was definitely not a better way for his career to end. Plus, it also looks like it is gonna allow me to see him live when the WWE come over to the UK next month. I'm eternally grateful for that.
It made sense for Bret to beat him down for a while, rather than give him a Sharpshooter straight off the bat. It might have not been the right thing from an entertainment perspective but you've gotta remember, in kayfabe he has been waiting thirteen years for this match. A punch and a Sharpshooter would've come across as very half-assed considering how the feud has been built up.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Mar 29, 2010 14:11:35 GMT -5
It was kind of what I was expecting. The caliber of the match was bad, but that didn't matter, as Bret finally got to be involved with Wrestlemania again. Having the entire Hart Family out there was an awesome moment too. The only thing I would have changed is to maybe have more of a schism within the family. I mentioned the Dynasty should have stayed heels, angry that Bret had gone soft by forgiving Shawn and thinking they represented the family now, and maybe Ellie, since Bret mentioned there was some real heat between them for years after Owen's death. That would help to keep us guessing what was real and what was not.
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Post by lennon on Mar 29, 2010 14:42:47 GMT -5
It went on too long.
Otherwise, I had no beef with it.
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Post by Iceking251980A on Mar 29, 2010 15:02:47 GMT -5
Went on way too long
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Mar 29, 2010 15:07:09 GMT -5
They were between a rock and a hard place.
Constraints: Bret cannot be hit. Vince cannot do technical wrestling. Their public image cannot take blood.
Options: You either do the match shorter, or you do it as they did it. The match pretty much had to go as it was. The swerve was neither here nor there. It got the Hart Dynasty involved and Bret's family has been through a lot, so for them to get retribution as well is important.
But they do that match shorter and people will say 'We waited 13 years for that?' and people will feel like they didn't get their money's worth. They did it for as long as they did because Vince truly had to get an ass kicking. It was never meant to be a back and forth match, Bret was never losing.
Using a crow bar and chair also made it look like a real fight. Bringing out trashcans and cookie sheets would have cheapened something that had an epic build to a mid-card hardcore match on Raw. As for possible interferences, I'm pretty much over SHOCKING SURPRISE RETURNS!!! because they've lost all impact. WWE are all about telling logical stories now, not shocking for the sake of shocking, and I prefer it.
People have said they may as well not have done the match at all if Bret couldn't do anything, and maybe that's right. But at the end of the day they were about making money, the company would have made a bucket from that, and so would the Hart's. Not to mention the Hart's getting a nice send off from the business and Bret getting to finally close a sorry chapter in his life in the nicest way possible.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Mar 29, 2010 15:29:32 GMT -5
I'm just glad it's over. Too young to care about the Montreal blah blah business vs respect blah blah blah, so I didn't care about this match in the first place.
Now we can move on and we never have to see anything like that again...unless you thought it was MOTY or something.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Mar 29, 2010 15:33:34 GMT -5
Maybe it was long, but I will say this..................after Wrestlemania 26, that Montreat Screwjob incident is finished. Bret got to kick Vince's ass, Vince screwed Vince, and Shawn Michaels has retired. There is no more need for the "You Screwed Bret" chants ever again.
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Zen411
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Zen411 on Mar 29, 2010 15:45:03 GMT -5
I felt like the match was boring to watch. I DVRed WrestleMania and its the only one I didn't want to re-watch. I'm glad Bret got that closure. I just feel like this moment was more for Bret than the fans. They didnt have the Hart family involved in the angle this whole time. It seemed like a last minute add on.
I think they should have had the Harts involved in the build....like teased they were turning on Bret before the event. Then the double cross would have been more effective.
I do think it would have been more interesting if there was a guy to interfere on Vince's behalf. Could have been Batista. Could have been a return guy from the corporate Vince years.
It took a lot of courage for Bret to get out there after a concussion, stroke, and years of inactivity. Glad it ended the way it did and didnt have a messy ending. But it's just not a match I will re-watch. It's over.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Mar 29, 2010 16:08:01 GMT -5
The whole angle could've been done, and done better, on one episode of Raw.
-Have Bret come out as Guest Host, call out HBK, they make up.
-Have Bret call out Vince, Vince talks trash. Bret makes the match him vs Vince as Raw's main event, since his Guest Host powers override even Vince's.
-Vince spends all night trying to get various Superstars to back him up. None will.
-Vince comes out for the match with Batista, Cena runs off Batista. Bret beats on Vince for a couple minutes, puts him in the Sharpshooter, Vince taps.
Do the whole thing in Canada, it would've gone down as one of the best Raws of all time. Instead, we get one of the worst Mania matches ever.
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Mesousa
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Post by Mesousa on Mar 29, 2010 16:32:27 GMT -5
My opinion for the match? Well, the more Bret teases to the Sharpshooter, the more annoyed I got.
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Post by Kevin's Thorn on Mar 29, 2010 17:15:35 GMT -5
I think if WM was in Canada that match would've gone over MUCH better.
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Post by foreveryoung on Mar 29, 2010 17:22:40 GMT -5
it never had to good feel to it. I think the main reason is (outside of the fact Bret just cant really do anything anymore), was its 13 years AFTER the fact. This is a whole new generation of audience. The majority today were not watching wrestling back then as most were too young. And the ones who were watching then, most arent today as they have grown up, moved on to UFC or whatever. Had it been done 8-10 years ago, there would have been much more buzz about it. Too little too late.
Unless you witnessed what happened first hand, you can really garner an appreciation for Bret vs. Vince. But these thing being that happened almost 13 years ago.. forget it. And it pretty much was confirmed at Mania.. Either the audience today didnt get to witness if first hand therefore had no appreciation for it, or its just been so long they dont care anymore.. Whatever it is.. Im glad the fued is over.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Mar 29, 2010 17:22:57 GMT -5
I found the match hard to watch. It was a clustersmurf and poorly booked. I figured that when Bret inititally got hit by the car it would lead Vince to working on Brets leg before eating a sharpshooter. I hate Bruce Hart, everytime they bring him in he seems to think hes actually somebody, so i was irriated when I saw him at first.
I think it's a poor way to remember Bret's last match.
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