Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 20, 2010 19:03:45 GMT -5
If by "boycott" you mean read the horrible reviews and decided to stay away then yes. And thus missed out on a film that WAS true to the comic-book. Yup, over than the colour of Kingpin's skin, Daredevil was pretty spot on. Oh, and Bullseye. The Irish annoyed me for some reason. Umm kind of off ish...topic but is Hogun the guy with the starry eyes? Who can see in to the future? I've read about four Thor books. Sorry for the newb question. Also it's complete crappy crapola that some people, who aren't even fans of the source material, will pick at anything to further their beliefs and goals. But then may be this group are purist Thor/Marvel fans, some how I doubt it. What is silly to me, is that with say a 'real' story and they add different cultures that aren't present in history to said story, I can understand.....gawd even horrible groups like this. But this is a FICTIONAL STORY, I have no time for any nit picking, it's not real, who cares, this group is just trying to get publicity. Hogun is an Asian god, his Pantheon was destroyed and he came to live with the Asgardians. His comic character looks like this: but in the film he appears to be much younger and a bit more Asian than he looks in the comics, where it really isnt brought up much. Heimdall, the guy who in the film is played by actor Idris Elba, and who is causing this issue with these nuts and with the more comic faithful looks like this in the books: And in the film, looks pretty similar, bar that fact that he has black skin now. The stary eyes is a new visualisation for a power Heimdall has pretty much always had - basically a sort of cosmic awareness that lets him 'see' where people are, and what may be about to happen.
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Corporate H
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Post by Corporate H on Dec 20, 2010 19:19:31 GMT -5
I think it's lame from a continuity and adaptation perspective, but I can overlook it like I did Kingpin in Daredevil. You never do see a white guy playing a historically black character though, do you?
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Dec 20, 2010 19:42:54 GMT -5
I think it's lame from a continuity and adaptation perspective, but I can overlook it like I did Kingpin in Daredevil. You never do see a white guy playing a historically black character though, do you? Actually, they did it with Baxter Stockman in the TMNT 80's cartoon.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 20, 2010 19:55:08 GMT -5
I think it's lame from a continuity and adaptation perspective, but I can overlook it like I did Kingpin in Daredevil. You never do see a white guy playing a historically black character though, do you? Actually, yeah, Shakespeare's Othello. Othello has been played by Paul Scofield, Anthony Hopkins, Patrick Stewart (which swapped the race of every character in the play, actually. Stewart was the only Caucasian), Orson Welles and Neil Patrick Harris, so both before and after black actors were considered acceptable in the acting world. White actors tend to take up the role more than black actors, even though the character is black.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 20, 2010 20:01:55 GMT -5
Othello is a great example, if only historians and linguists would stop arguing over his background and just how black he was. Still, certainly wasnt white.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 20, 2010 20:10:09 GMT -5
It's sad that in the year 2010 we still have racist f***ers like this, it's sickening. Sorry, but in this case, and maybe ONLY this case, I'm (unfortunately) on their side. Not because I agree with white supremacists, but because if the character is SUPPOSED to be white/Norse/Germanic, keep him such. I had the same problems with when a studio wanted to make a movie version of Anansi Boys where all the main characters (most of them blacks of Carribean descent) were going to be white (and it ultimately never happened, because Gaiman wasn't willing to allow them to do that). It'd be hypocritical to disapprove of turning black characters white in a movie, but then be ok with turning white characters black. Sounds like two very different situations. In one situation, you have a story where the race of the characters is important to keep consistent. In a comic book movie, there really is no significance to the skin color of a minor character. It's not likely to break suspension of disbelief, and, again, the color of the character's skin plays no role in the storytelling.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 20, 2010 20:15:16 GMT -5
Othello is a great example, if only historians and linguists would stop arguing over his background and just how black he was. Still, certainly wasnt white. Really? I mean, I could get arguing where Othello was actually from, but there's no way the guy wasn't black based on the play text itself.
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jobber2thestars
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Post by jobber2thestars on Dec 20, 2010 20:35:51 GMT -5
Actually, I can see the point being made by the White Supremacist group. The character is white, so why not have a white guy play him. I'm sure a lot of black groups would be angry if a movie was made where John Henry was played by a white man.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 20, 2010 20:40:27 GMT -5
I knew Heimdall's helmet looked like the that, but I guess I never really thought about it before; it's gotta be a pain in the ass for the poor guy to navigate doorways in that thing. No wonder he mainly hangs out on Bifrost.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 20, 2010 20:41:56 GMT -5
Actually, I can see the point being made by the White Supremacist group. The character is white, so why not have a white guy play him. I'm sure a lot of black groups would be angry if a movie was made where John Henry was played by a white man. No one bats an eye when Othello is played by a white man. If the race was a major issue with the character, it might be a big deal. But that's not really the case with Heimdall. Norse gods could take any form they wanted. Maybe I just don't care that much about the race of actors, just like I didn't care when the Avatar kids were all played by white actors, or the Smallville cast being more diverse than DC made it, but, you get the best people you can to play the parts.
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Post by Glitch on Dec 20, 2010 21:36:46 GMT -5
Didn't the change to black occur in the comic?(before the movie was cast.)
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Post by Ducky Momo on Dec 20, 2010 21:43:34 GMT -5
I'd just like to comment on a few random things. Changing one character to be black is a whole lot different then taking all Asian/Indian characters and making them white. Because racists or perhaps just backwards executives think they can't sell minorities to the American public. Or maybe they're right and we're all just to brainwashed, even us minorities, into thinking that white people are superior. Whether we admit it, or even realize it. Hell just look at Jet Li and Aaliyah, they had to cut a kiss scene from their film because test audiences didn't like it. Never really a problem with a white leading man and woman. But that's mostly an Asian thing, they have a history of being screwed in film.
21 was, you know...a true story, about mostly Asian people, yet they almost universally get turned white.
It's not a double standard, one character turned black not a big deal every once in while. Same with the other way around. However Hollywood has a history of white-washing characters needlessly. And often minorities are cast as stereotypes. Of course many films aimed at black people often have the dorky can't dance white guy in a suit, so there's that...
My thoughts are all over the place so I'm probably not making sense. One last point, I think we all underestimate the power of film and TV. They have a gigantic influence on who we are as people. If all you ever see on TV, by and large, is black people are criminals and ghetto. All white people are beautiful, better, successful, and generally treated better. Which most people I know that are minorities just accept this as a fact of life. Asian men are smart, but never represented as sex symbols. (Back to Jet Li) And you're an Asian woman, who do you want to marry as you grow through life absorbing stereotypes, if you guessed the white guy. You're right.
I'm not saying it isn't a cycle. What we see on TV is a projection, but it's influence is still deep and far reaching. Of course there are always exceptions, but they're just that exceptions.
Might be getting too political or w/e, so I'm done for now. I tried to cover too many things I have to say in one post. I hope some of that made sense. ;D
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Dec 20, 2010 21:58:27 GMT -5
I'd just like to comment on a few random things. Changing one character to be black is a whole lot different then taking all Asian/Indian characters and making them white. Because racists or perhaps just backwards executives think they can't sell minorities to the American public. Or maybe they're right and we're all just to brainwashed, even us minorities, into thinking that white people are superior. Whether we admit it, or even realize it. Hell just look at Jet Li and Aaliyah, they had to cut a kiss scene from their film because test audiences didn't like it. Never really a problem with a white leading man and woman. But that's mostly an Asian thing, they have a history of being screwed in film. 21 was, you know...a true story, about mostly Asian people, yet they almost universally get turned white. It's not a double standard, one character turned black not a big deal every once in while. Same with the other way around. However Hollywood has a history of white-washing characters needlessly. And often minorities are cast as stereotypes. Of course many films aimed at black people often have the dorky can't dance white guy in a suit, so there's that... My thoughts are all over the place so I'm probably not making sense. One last point, I think we all underestimate the power of film and TV. They have a gigantic influence on who we are as people. If all you ever see on TV, by and large, is black people are criminals and ghetto. All white people are beautiful, better, successful, and generally treated better. Which most people I know that are minorities just accept this as a fact of life. Asian men are smart, but never represented as sex symbols. (Back to Jet Li) And you're an Asian woman, who do you want to marry as you grow through life absorbing stereotypes, if you guessed the white guy. You're right. I'm not saying it isn't a cycle. What we see on TV is a projection, but it's influence is still deep and far reaching. Of course there are always exceptions, but they're just that exceptions. Might be getting too political or w/e, so I'm done for now. I tried to cover too many things I have to say in one post. I hope some of that made sense. ;D You actually make a lot of great points. As I said in my post, I don't mind the change because the costume, wardrobe, and acting that I've seen from this man is excellent. When the essential spirit of the character is definately there, race no longer becomes an issue in the slightest for me. When I do get enraged about race changes, is when it's for comic relief stupidity. For example, if Heimdall in this movie had been wearing GIANT baggy pants with a backwards baseball cap, and Kanye West t-shirt, doing the whole "yo yo yo my homie" urban stereotype, I'd be extremely upset. Instead, they actor has thus far captured the spirit of the character...from the scenes I've witnessed...he IS Heimdall as per the comics! As long as that stays true, I couldn't give a crap less about him being black anymore. The same goes for Kingpin in Daredevil.
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Post by Chainsaw on Dec 20, 2010 22:54:16 GMT -5
Y'know who could bring an end to all of this drama?
This guy.
(Language warning)
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A/C Carcass
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Post by A/C Carcass on Dec 21, 2010 0:31:44 GMT -5
I don't understand why most people here think it's racist to think a white character shouldn't be played by a black actor. I don't care if these guys are white supremacists or not, I agree with them on this.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 21, 2010 0:54:48 GMT -5
I don't understand why most people here think it's racist to think a white character shouldn't be played by a black actor. I don't care if these guys are white supremacists or not, I agree with them on this. Read the entire thread, and you'll actually see people's opinions. A response like this shows you clearly haven't read it.
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A/C Carcass
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Post by A/C Carcass on Dec 21, 2010 1:12:17 GMT -5
I don't understand why most people here think it's racist to think a white character shouldn't be played by a black actor. I don't care if these guys are white supremacists or not, I agree with them on this. Read the entire thread, and you'll actually see people's opinions. A response like this shows you clearly haven't read it. I've read it, but I was talking about the comments on the article too. It seems about one in every four posts mentions something about racism, nazis, boneheads, or bigots. But you're right, that's still not "most people" like I said.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 21, 2010 1:24:52 GMT -5
I don't understand why most people here think it's racist to think a white character shouldn't be played by a black actor. I don't care if these guys are white supremacists or not, I agree with them on this. It's not so much the argument as the reasoning behind it. People who just want the source material to be strictly interpreted aren't racist, I just happen not to share their concerns. But the group in the story is using the movie as a platform to put their POV, which is a white supremacist one. I really doubt it's the purity of the source material that is truly at the core, since they seem just as happy to insult the company that puts it out as they are about the acting (another story had them insulting Stan Lee and Marvel Comics). I think that's what people are responding to, not necessarily the point of view.
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Post by noleafclover1980 on Dec 21, 2010 3:44:07 GMT -5
I think what frustrates me the most, as a white man, is that white supremacists are always the dumbest and ugliest representations of us. It would be one thing if say... Brad Pitt was one... at least he's well spoken and attractive (bear with me here... I'm not racist at all, I'm gonna take you through Mordor and back to the Shire). But it's always some hillbilly with no education acting like blacks etc are inferior. To what? Your fat stupid ass? The PRESIDENT is black (my lambo's blue), what have you people ever accomplished?
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 21, 2010 4:57:01 GMT -5
I knew Heimdall's helmet looked like the that, but I guess I never really thought about it before; it's gotta be a pain in the ass for the poor guy to navigate doorways in that thing. No wonder he mainly hangs out on Bifrost. It probably helps that Marvel's Norse Gods wear a lot of elaborate helmets. I'm sure they design for that in Valhalla. I often wonder where the Vikings=horned helms idea originated, though, given I could have sworn that it's been often cited that there is no real evidence any vikings ever wore such unpractical helmets. Samurai did, but the horns are less cumbersome.
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