Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2010 5:04:10 GMT -5
Quick question: is anyone offended/cares that Thor is a blond in the comic and the film when he's a redhead in many of the legends?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 21, 2010 5:08:33 GMT -5
Quick question: is anyone offended/cares that Thor is a blond in the comic and the film when he's a redhead in many of the legends? Or wonder why the hell the comics often had him sounding like a Shakespeare gag when that isn't even remotely appropriate for a Norseman?
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Dec 21, 2010 5:57:18 GMT -5
Remind me again why such levels of stupidity aren't considered a crime against humanity? Seriously, what is wrong with people like that? "ARGH! Your skin is different than mine and it makes you evil and inferior for some reason! And that means I've got to kill you because if I don't... shut up I have to!" You know, I could understand a honest argument that a Black viking god just seems like an unlikely idea (then again, my knowledge of Norse mythology is a bit off, so maybe there are and I just don't know about it), but calling a boycott because someone had the galls to cast a Black actor? That'd be f'n laughable if it wasn't so disgusting. These are the type of people who are a waste of life. Nobodies a waste of life. Some folks are just misinformed. Wasn't there some article about Marvel admitting that they put in Elba as a dig at the skinheads and supremacists? Who for some reason are now Norse. Neo-nazis hold Norse gods as examples of the "superiority" of White people. And I'm sorry but this goes beyond misinformation. What, do they somehow live in a place where encyclopedias state that Black people eat babies or something? I don't see how one can be misinformed about stuff like that, it's just common sense. He is a super powerful god, he can look any damned way he wants I am sure. In fact, don't Norse gods have the ability to shift shapes?
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 21, 2010 7:09:16 GMT -5
Othello is a great example, if only historians and linguists would stop arguing over his background and just how black he was. Still, certainly wasnt white. Really? I mean, I could get arguing where Othello was actually from, but there's no way the guy wasn't black based on the play text itself. The play text only really has one instance that supports that he was sub-saharan black African, ironically enough a racial slur. The rest of the time the language used like Moor and black were used in Elizabethan England as general terms for anyone from Spain to Egypt. The term blackamoor was generally used to describe blacl people, but more than likely, racist Victorians didn't like the notion of a black hero and so tried to white him up
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Post by noleafclover1980 on Dec 21, 2010 7:13:20 GMT -5
Remind me again why such levels of stupidity aren't considered a crime against humanity? Seriously, what is wrong with people like that? "ARGH! Your skin is different than mine and it makes you evil and inferior for some reason! And that means I've got to kill you because if I don't... shut up I have to!" You know, I could understand a honest argument that a Black viking god just seems like an unlikely idea (then again, my knowledge of Norse mythology is a bit off, so maybe there are and I just don't know about it), but calling a boycott because someone had the galls to cast a Black actor? That'd be f'n laughable if it wasn't so disgusting. Nobodies a waste of life. Some folks are just misinformed. Wasn't there some article about Marvel admitting that they put in Elba as a dig at the skinheads and supremacists? Who for some reason are now Norse. Neo-nazis hold Norse gods as examples of the "superiority" of White people.And I'm sorry but this goes beyond misinformation. What, do they somehow live in a place where encyclopedias state that Black people eat babies or something? I don't see how one can be misinformed about stuff like that, it's just common sense. He is a super powerful god, he can look any damned way he wants I am sure. In fact, don't Norse gods have the ability to shift shapes? I'm confused how fictional characters can somehow prove the superiority of white people. There are bad ass gods and goddesses in EVERY culture.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 21, 2010 7:20:30 GMT -5
I knew Heimdall's helmet looked like the that, but I guess I never really thought about it before; it's gotta be a pain in the ass for the poor guy to navigate doorways in that thing. No wonder he mainly hangs out on Bifrost. It probably helps that Marvel's Norse Gods wear a lot of elaborate helmets. I'm sure they design for that in Valhalla. I often wonder where the Vikings=horned helms idea originated, though, given I could have sworn that it's been often cited that there is no real evidence any vikings ever wore such unpractical helmets. Samurai did, but the horns are less cumbersome. It's a long slow process. In antiquity, the people of Northern Europe were always described by writers as wearing animal pelts up and over their heads, with the horns left in. We also know that for religious ceremonis, these ancestors of the Vikings would wear horned helmets, and this continued into the Viking age. During the 17th and 18th Century, opera populised Winged Helmets, generally taken from the mythological descriptions of Valkylries and then in the 19th Century it evolved, or devolved, into horned helmets as Victorian historians read the Classical texts about Northern barbarians wearing horned animal skins and used that savage image as a base for horned helmets.
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Dec 21, 2010 12:34:51 GMT -5
Remind me again why such levels of stupidity aren't considered a crime against humanity? Seriously, what is wrong with people like that? "ARGH! Your skin is different than mine and it makes you evil and inferior for some reason! And that means I've got to kill you because if I don't... shut up I have to!" You know, I could understand a honest argument that a Black viking god just seems like an unlikely idea (then again, my knowledge of Norse mythology is a bit off, so maybe there are and I just don't know about it), but calling a boycott because someone had the galls to cast a Black actor? That'd be f'n laughable if it wasn't so disgusting. Nobodies a waste of life. Some folks are just misinformed. Wasn't there some article about Marvel admitting that they put in Elba as a dig at the skinheads and supremacists? Who for some reason are now Norse. Neo-nazis hold Norse gods as examples of the "superiority" of White people. And I'm sorry but this goes beyond misinformation. What, do they somehow live in a place where encyclopedias state that Black people eat babies or something? I don't see how one can be misinformed about stuff like that, it's just common sense. He is a super powerful god, he can look any damned way he wants I am sure. In fact, don't Norse gods have the ability to shift shapes? Alright...I'm utterly confused! I've read pretty much EVERYTHING there is to read about Norse Gods...I love that mythology more than anything! Where in the heck do they get the idea that Norse=white supremist?? What, that time Thor had to dress like a girl to steal his hammer back? Maybe it was that time Loki cut off Sif's hair? No, I know, it was that time Loki tricked that giant who was trying to repair the walls of Asgard, by having sex with his horse. Seriously, I don't see where these idiots get the racism message.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 21, 2010 19:13:44 GMT -5
Big and strong 'blonde and blue eyes (Scandanavian stereotype)' guys.
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Post by noleafclover1980 on Dec 21, 2010 19:33:55 GMT -5
Remind me again why such levels of stupidity aren't considered a crime against humanity? Seriously, what is wrong with people like that? "ARGH! Your skin is different than mine and it makes you evil and inferior for some reason! And that means I've got to kill you because if I don't... shut up I have to!" You know, I could understand a honest argument that a Black viking god just seems like an unlikely idea (then again, my knowledge of Norse mythology is a bit off, so maybe there are and I just don't know about it), but calling a boycott because someone had the galls to cast a Black actor? That'd be f'n laughable if it wasn't so disgusting. Neo-nazis hold Norse gods as examples of the "superiority" of White people. And I'm sorry but this goes beyond misinformation. What, do they somehow live in a place where encyclopedias state that Black people eat babies or something? I don't see how one can be misinformed about stuff like that, it's just common sense. In fact, don't Norse gods have the ability to shift shapes? Alright...I'm utterly confused! I've read pretty much EVERYTHING there is to read about Norse Gods...I love that mythology more than anything! Where in the heck do they get the idea that Norse=white supremist?? What, that time Thor had to dress like a girl to steal his hammer back? Maybe it was that time Loki cut off Sif's hair? No, I know, it was that time Loki tricked that giant who was trying to repair the walls of Asgard, by having sex with his horse. Seriously, I don't see where these idiots get the racism message. The best paty about being a white supremicist is the fact that it doesn't HAVE to make sense. I mean, the KKK symbol incorporates a blood drop, that represents the blood of Christ... a jew. I love the fact that for some reason, they actually believe Jesus was a white person, despite the fact that it is literally impossible for it to be so.
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Dec 21, 2010 19:42:55 GMT -5
Big and strong 'blonde and blue eyes (Scandanavian stereotype)' guys. In the myth, he isn't even blond haired or blue eyed!! He's got red hair and flashing red eyes!!!!!!!!!! In fact, I'm not certain I can think of a single blond in the whole mythology except for Sif!!!!!
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Dec 21, 2010 19:51:24 GMT -5
Big and strong 'blonde and blue eyes (Scandanavian stereotype)' guys. In the myth, he isn't even blond haired or blue eyed!! He's got red hair and flashing red eyes!!!!!!!!!! In fact, I'm not certain I can think of a single blond in the whole mythology except for Sif!!!!! And in the Marvel Comic she has black hair!
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 22, 2010 19:15:40 GMT -5
Big and strong 'blonde and blue eyes (Scandanavian stereotype)' guys. In the myth, he isn't even blond haired or blue eyed!! He's got red hair and flashing red eyes!!!!!!!!!! In fact, I'm not certain I can think of a single blond in the whole mythology except for Sif!!!!! Most of the Vanir, like Freya and Freyr tend to be blond, but the point isn't so much that Thor has red hair or blonde hair, it's simply that he and the other Norse gods are these shining northern european examples for people like this, and about as far as way from black as you can get.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 22, 2010 19:50:29 GMT -5
Random.
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Jay Peas 42
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Dec 22, 2010 22:37:28 GMT -5
I think people are missing the point here. It is all about Symbolism, not logic. Othello is not black as a statement on well, anything. He is alien. He is the outsider. That is the paranoia underlying the story.
Odinism: In White Supremacist Theory, Odin represents a series of Indo-European Sky gods, who worship has been corrupted by Jewish weakness. It is a quest for authenticity. In addition, most White Supremacists do not consider Jews and Jesus to be members of the same tribe. If you by Christian Identity, for example, Aryans are descended from the Hebrews, whereas Jews are their degenerate cousins, similar to how the Jews treat Samaritans, ironically. Now, if none of this makes sense to you, that is just because you are not British and from the 19th century.
Thor’s manner of speaking: Thor is not speaking like Shakespeare, he is speaking like Jesus. When Thor Comics was created, the King James Version of the Bible was still in wide use, and symbolically, if you wanted to convey a formal and archaic version of English that conveyed a sense of antiquity and remoteness, Elizabethan would have filed that. Obviously, neither Christ nor Thor spoke that way. It’s similar to how ancient art portrayed classical figures in contemporary clothing. You are not trying to say that King Herod would have dressed as a 16th century Italian Nobleman; you were trying to convey he was a nobleman.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 22, 2010 22:43:08 GMT -5
Stan Lee has flat out said before that he wanted Thor to sound Shakespearean. Yours is an interesting theory, but not the case.
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