|
Post by mcclanahan on Aug 19, 2011 8:52:22 GMT -5
ok, first there is nothing childish or unprofesional about wrestlers court, it's simpally a way to take care of things without having to risk someones job, second the punishment is made to match the crime, from a simple slap on the wrist like doing 20 pushups to the more severe paying for someone's travel, and without it the locker room literally falls into anarchy, I've been in locker rooms with and without it and the one's that have it generally have hhigher moral and put on better quality shows...third this is really none of your buisness, yes it exists and you should be glad it does or just not worry about it...fourth wrestlers court is a bit dated...as it dates back to the 40's at the very least but it is still necessary to have...and now for my personal favorite case from my time in wrestling
wrestler A dropped wrestler B's cell in the toilet...wrestler B takes this to Wrestler Court where the Wrestler C listens to both sides and "sentences" wrestler A to buy wrestler B a new phone of equal or greater value and he's sentenced to do 10 pushups in the snow...in the middle of July...in Georgia...as there is no snow on the ground Wrestler C has wrestler A go outside and dance for 30 minutes every show until it snows...in january or february it finally snows and wrestler A does his 10 pushups...and wrestler A was no longer a problem backstage
as for hazing other than the chop initiation I havn't experianced any...but I personally didn't mind when everyone got in a line and took turns chopping me
|
|
|
Post by mcclanahan on Aug 19, 2011 8:56:30 GMT -5
also as far as JiBLets raping people...yes he soaped some people up...he never raped anyone though and you can't use wrestler court as a way to be able to do that, wrestler court would find against JBL in that case and report him to Vince...as for the thing with Droese (yes it was Droese not Bryan Christopher) the guy wasn't raped just tortured...and hopefully he learned his lesson from it, though I do not condone torture...in his case I would have just reported it...to JBL
|
|
|
Post by mcclanahan on Aug 19, 2011 9:12:49 GMT -5
also this should really be in the (W)rest section as it really applies to all wrestling not just the E
|
|
|
Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Aug 19, 2011 9:42:37 GMT -5
also this should really be in the (W)rest section as it really applies to all wrestling not just the E Now I'm imagining a CHIKARA wrestler's court
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Aug 19, 2011 11:23:46 GMT -5
Jesus, you're going to stick with this aren't you? Look, it's a common thing in sports as well. We do kangaroo court after a rugby match. But I suppose we're being immature goons? You mess up in the match, you go to kangaroo court. Just like with WWE, you mess up backstage (non-serious offences) you go to wrestler's court. Or should management get themselves involved in every niggling little issue? Ohhh, ok. I knew there was something personal. Anyway, I'm going to say yes; anyone who's passed puberty and likes to play Fake Courtroom is being immature. And no, people should work out their issues personally, and if that doesn't work, then management should get involved. That's because management has a real list of offenses they punish, while my peers (who shouldn't have any real authority over me) can define whatever "offenses" they want. I mean, do you hear yourself? Can you imagine this in other lines of work? "Barry keeps taking my stapler. Should I go talk to him about it? Should I go tell the boss? ...No, that's too much trouble. I know! I'll concoct an elaborate fantasy play game and force everyone else who works here to participate!"
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 19, 2011 11:49:01 GMT -5
This forum needs a FAN court.
|
|
|
Post by héad.casé on Aug 19, 2011 15:31:44 GMT -5
Our locker room doesn't have a Wrestler's Court funnily enough. I'd like it if we did, it doesn't seem like that bad an idea to have the boys settle their grievances personally and pay a little fine or carry bags or something like that, rather than bitch to management (who more than likely wouldn't get involved anyway unless it was serious).
I think people are taking this too seriously, if you screw up, you should learn this way, it's not like the punishments are beating the hell out of the guy that screwed up.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Aug 19, 2011 15:36:46 GMT -5
I don't see anything wrong with guys having a system where there are locker room leaders who you're expected to listen to. For example, one guys keeps bullying rookies, one of the locker leaders comes over and tells him to cut it out, and it's generally accepted that should be the end of things.
Once you start going beyond that, though, it gets kind of weird.
Go beyond THAT, though, and I think you start entering the realm of hazing and various strange places that nobody should really be going to.
That all being said, I've never witnessed such a court scene, so I can't fully comment.
|
|
Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
Posts: 2,808
|
Post by Sektor on Aug 19, 2011 16:03:57 GMT -5
Jesus, you're going to stick with this aren't you? Look, it's a common thing in sports as well. We do kangaroo court after a rugby match. But I suppose we're being immature goons? You mess up in the match, you go to kangaroo court. Just like with WWE, you mess up backstage (non-serious offences) you go to wrestler's court. Or should management get themselves involved in every niggling little issue? Ohhh, ok. I knew there was something personal. Anyway, I'm going to say yes; anyone who's passed puberty and likes to play Fake Courtroom is being immature. And no, people should work out their issues personally, and if that doesn't work, then management should get involved. That's because management has a real list of offenses they punish, while my peers (who shouldn't have any real authority over me) can define whatever "offenses" they want. I mean, do you hear yourself? Can you imagine this in other lines of work? "Barry keeps taking my stapler. Should I go talk to him about it? Should I go tell the boss? ...No, that's too much trouble. I know! I'll concoct an elaborate fantasy play game and force everyone else who works here to participate!" I think you maybe, just maybe, are getting the wrong visual from the term 'court'. I seriously doubt there's robes and lawyers and gavels and that it takes weeks. I'd guess there's just the two with the problem, the veteran to be the arbitrator, and a 3rd party to witness it. This isn't anymore likely to be corrupt then management intervening would be. And the point of the judge is that it's someone who's near universally respected in the locker room, and you don't earn respect by being a biased douche. If you want to continue slagging it because of the idea that the phrase gives off and a couple of isolated incidents, go for it. But by and large it's a great idea, and just a structured version of settling things between the two with the issue.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Aug 19, 2011 16:10:03 GMT -5
Even the military has their own version of unofficial code of conduct and policing. If you suppose to trust someone with your life and well being, you better make sure they understand right or wrong. so does that mean a person that goes in feeling that "unofficial" rules and regulations are bull and and legitimate concerns are what superiors are for basically just shouldn't go into something like that?
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,644
|
Post by The Ichi on Aug 19, 2011 16:12:12 GMT -5
I think the fact that the key members of the court were JBL, Hardcore Holly and CHRIS BENOIT are what I find disturbing about the idea of it. I mean, there was Taker, a well known locker room leader too, but those 3 names are why I'm more inclined to believe that the system was VERY wrong. Because there's nothing quite like two bullies and a future child murderer telling people how to act!
Plus, it's f***ing childish.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Aug 19, 2011 17:46:02 GMT -5
The one story I heard about Wrestler's Court was that the Hardys (back when they were a tag team) somehow messed up the seating order on a flight, so that Kane had to sit in a seat near too-low bulkhead. (That is, there'd be tons of headroom for Matt or Jeff, but not for Glenn Jacobs.) When they found out what they'd done, it was too late to swap up again. Wrestlers Court was called, and they carried Kane's bags for a while. He apparently wasn't even that mad about it, the way I heard it. Honestly, I find that much more believable than stories involving broomsticks. (Besides, we know it'd first have to be taken and shined up real pretty, then turned sideways...) I consider it separate from the hazing. From everything I understand of the industry, a "Court" would work a LOT more than say having a Human Resources type handing out infraction notices, since the oldest most-respected hands would be 'judge'. I suppose Lance Storm's story about the ECW locker room offering to 'get even' for a punch that Steve Williams threw also counts. (Long story short- Steve Williams can work a punch that looks like he's shooting, but according to Storm 'feels like my baby daughter flicking you with one of her fingers'). He sold it as well as Williams delivered it, and apparently even seasoned workers bought it as a 'botch' or 'shoot'. He waved them off. The system definitely has its limitations (I have no idea what Wrestler's Court could do about wellness-type stuff or that Flight From Hell a while back), but it sounds at least partly useful. actually I believe that was a WWE locker room, because they were near Williams stomping grounds and I don't think ECW every did a show there.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Aug 19, 2011 17:50:59 GMT -5
As paying customers, I think we do. Why? It is pretty irrelevant to the paying customers. people are not so easygoing stuff like that can just be ignore. it could potentially affect the wya people work with each other, which affects what we see
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Aug 19, 2011 17:52:37 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has a problem with some way of solving minor problems. but that's not the issue. The problem is that any in-system screwed-upness is strengthened, because breaking the potentially nonsensical rules (like paying to fly first class when you "aren't on that level") now has an explicit, direct punishment, handed down from people who should be your peers but have declared themselves your superiors. Also, there's the reason anyone brought up hazing: The potential for abusing the power is enormous. If you haze, and you're also on wrestler's court, you're going to use wrestler's court to haze. There's also just, well, how CARNY it all is. Wrestlers are adults. Why can't they just act like you and Bill in your example? Why have this ridiculous fake trial? Jesus, you're going to stick with this aren't you? Look, it's a common thing in sports as well. We do kangaroo court after a rugby match. But I suppose we're being immature goons? You mess up in the match, you go to kangaroo court. Just like with WWE, you mess up backstage (non-serious offences) you go to wrestler's court. Or should management get themselves involved in every niggling little issue? you should be adult enough that if it's not a big enough issue to go to management you either ignore it, or discuss things as two rational individuals.
|
|
|
Post by DarBucks on Aug 19, 2011 18:18:24 GMT -5
Jesus, you're going to stick with this aren't you? Look, it's a common thing in sports as well. We do kangaroo court after a rugby match. But I suppose we're being immature goons? You mess up in the match, you go to kangaroo court. Just like with WWE, you mess up backstage (non-serious offences) you go to wrestler's court. Or should management get themselves involved in every niggling little issue? you should be adult enough that if it's not a big enough issue to go to management you either ignore it, or discuss things as two rational individuals. And that's what happens. You and carp seem to have some twisted idea of what happens. What happened in our kangaroo court (which happened on the bus on the way back to the college for away games or in the SU for home games) was that the person was called out on their offence (be it dropping the ball, going offside to often as on-field stuff, or not having your own kit, your phone went off needlessly during half-time for off-field stuff). The "defendant" gives their side, the "prosecution" gives theirs, and then the rest of the team vote on a "punishment" (Buy a beer for the prosecution if it was a directly personal thing, or you have to neck your first pint back at the bar). Nothing twisted about it, just an in-house justice system.
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 19, 2011 18:27:40 GMT -5
Even the military has their own version of unofficial code of conduct and policing. If you suppose to trust someone with your life and well being, you better make sure they understand right or wrong. so does that mean a person that goes in feeling that "unofficial" rules and regulations are bull and and legitimate concerns are what superiors are for basically just shouldn't go into something like that? The unofficial rules are things like taking a shower everyday. Don't steal other's underwear or porn. Wear shower shoes in the shower. Don't have sex in the workshop. Don't puke or piss in the garbage in berthing or someone's rack. Minor things that aren't worth the time and headaches going to the higher ups. And if most of you are so anti-hazing, I won't even get into details on what happens on Wog Day, getting your crow stamped, or blue shirt beatdown.
|
|
|
Post by Manute Bol on Aug 19, 2011 18:29:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by sdoyle7798 on Aug 19, 2011 18:37:43 GMT -5
A question for carp and mrjl...
I hate to be "this guy," but have you ever been part of a locker room of any kind (wrestling, baseball, football, soccer, etc.)? Because its a bit of a different beast than the rest of society.
Most teams will have their silly rituals and customs designed to unify each other, and wrestlers/kangaroo court is one of those things. Yes, it may seem childish or immature sometimes, but if it keeps the peace and everyone has fun with it, it can be a team builder.
If you have ever seen "Mystery, Alaska" there is a great scene that I think is pretty close to a "kangaroo court" moment. On the team is a guy who talks about this plump girl he shagged, and they have a code of "what is said in the locker room, stays in the locker room." Later when he tries to bed her again, she whacks him with a snow shovel because she found out what he said. So, when the team is back in the locker room, the team captain mentioned what happened, and that it had to be someone in the locker room that told. One of teh guys breaks down and admits to it. So, as a punishment (agreed upon way back in the day I guess, because the captain asks the one guy who got whacked "Well?" and he says "Oh, I want it!"), the guy who told has to go out in the cold with only a jock strap on, and skate end to end on the lake, and jump into a snow bank. That was it, issue settled, and they all had a good laugh.
Again, yea, it may be immature to some, but most locker rooms are a bunch of guys playing a game and having fun, so really, what do you expect?
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Aug 19, 2011 18:38:37 GMT -5
you should be adult enough that if it's not a big enough issue to go to management you either ignore it, or discuss things as two rational individuals. And that's what happens. You and carp seem to have some twisted idea of what happens. What happened in our kangaroo court (which happened on the bus on the way back to the college for away games or in the SU for home games) was that the person was called out on their offence (be it dropping the ball, going offside to often as on-field stuff, or not having your own kit, your phone went off needlessly during half-time for off-field stuff). The "defendant" gives their side, the "prosecution" gives theirs, and then the rest of the team vote on a "punishment" (Buy a beer for the prosecution if it was a directly personal thing, or you have to neck your first pint back at the bar). Nothing twisted about it, just an in-house justice system. you seem to be missing one of the key words there "two." There's no need for everyone to be watching a spectacle or voting on punishments.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Aug 19, 2011 18:43:56 GMT -5
A question for carp and mrjl... I hate to be "this guy," but have you ever been part of a locker room of any kind (wrestling, baseball, football, soccer, etc.)? Because its a bit of a different beast than the rest of society. Most teams will have their silly rituals and customs designed to unify each other, and wrestlers/kangaroo court is one of those things. Yes, it may seem childish or immature sometimes, but if it keeps the peace and everyone has fun with it, it can be a team builder. If you have ever seen "Mystery, Alaska" there is a great scene that I think is pretty close to a "kangaroo court" moment. On the team is a guy who talks about this plump girl he shagged, and they have a code of "what is said in the locker room, stays in the locker room." Later when he tries to bed her again, she whacks him with a snow shovel because she found out what he said. So, when the team is back in the locker room, the team captain mentioned what happened, and that it had to be someone in the locker room that told. One of teh guys breaks down and admits to it. So, as a punishment (agreed upon way back in the day I guess, because the captain asks the one guy who got whacked "Well?" and he says "Oh, I want it!"), the guy who told has to go out in the cold with only a jock strap on, and skate end to end on the lake, and jump into a snow bank. That was it, issue settled, and they all had a good laugh. Again, yea, it may be immature to some, but most locker rooms are a bunch of guys playing a game and having fun, so really, what do you expect? just high school gym. As for what I expect, I expect adults to act like adults. To me, this sort of stuff is the exact opposite of unifying and makes me wonder about the mental stability of the people involved.
|
|