Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Mar 14, 2012 21:40:19 GMT -5
Miz has never done anything for me. He's average at best and only has chemistry with a select few people.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Mar 14, 2012 21:44:35 GMT -5
I've never hated the guy, I mean...he seems like a cool enough dude. I've just never been much of a fan. I enjoyed his work with Morrison, and I was excited for his WWE title run until I realized that we wouldn't get many good matches out of it.
I really don't buy him being a heel as an excuse for being sub par in the ring. Like Miz is somehow the best heel in the business because unlike guys like Daniel Bryan or Cody Rhodes, he knows that getting booed is more important than putting on a quality match. That's just a silly excuse. Being good in the ring doesn't mean doing moonsaults and stuff that the crowd would pop for. If heels were always lousy in the ring because they want to screw over the fans, then the only good matches would be face vs face.
I also find his mic skills to be exaggerated. I mean, he's good on the mic, but he's not even in the top 5 promo guys on the roster IMO. Plus, he's been screwing up his lines a lot lately. That's the least of his problems though, I would be a big fan of the guy if he was more exciting in the ring. I guess if he ever gets this face turn that this board seems to be expecting for some reason, we'll see if that "he's a heel" excuse ever had any merit. I don't think it does.
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Post by Larryhausen on Mar 14, 2012 21:47:15 GMT -5
I doubt anything he learned in UPW was carried over to what WWE expects out of someone. I'm not saying that what he was taught was wrong, it's just something that if I was put in the same situation, I would definitely play it up as best as I could if I was in the big leagues. Again, just my opinion...but if no one else lives by that rule (especially guys who DO want to get heel heat like Jericho), then why would he? Except UPW was basically developmental for a while. They taught the style that WWE wanted. And it wasn't a casual relationship either, as you can find footage of HHH showing up on their show. And as I said earlier, some guys will take that mindset to heart more than others. And there's other ways to do it. Jericho didnt dial back his moveset, no, but he did get rid of absolutely everything else that would get him cheered. Again, I think the way he goes about working the fans does not agree with how he's being portrayed. That seems to be the problem to me.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Mar 14, 2012 21:49:05 GMT -5
If and when he turns face, we'll see if "he's been holding back", but I seriously doubt it. Rapidfire brought up a good point...if he was holding back so much, then he's jeopardizing the match instead of his character.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 15, 2012 1:03:29 GMT -5
How many strawmen were in the OP's post? That's got to be some kind of record.
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BorneAgain
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,459
Member is Online
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Post by BorneAgain on Mar 15, 2012 1:04:14 GMT -5
How many strawmen were in the OP's post? That's got to be some kind of record. Roughly the same number of anti-Miz threads that have cropped up in the past two months.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 15, 2012 1:10:34 GMT -5
The Miz is fine as a mid-card heel. He isn't main event calibre, nor is he convincing as a tough guy.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 15, 2012 1:10:55 GMT -5
How many strawmen were in the OP's post? That's got to be some kind of record. Roughly the same number of anti-Miz threads that have cropped up in the past two months. There's been a ton of those, sure, with good reason. Miz was good a for a little awhile and you didn't see as many. Lately, the past few months, he's been sucking, so people are reminded, without the mega push that it took to make them think otherwise, that he's not very good. Guys like Piper, Jake Roberts and Mr Perfect never won the big one but some jackass from MTV gets to win one and win as a heel at Mania, something I think only HHH has done. He is a plague on wrestling and last year was only slightly less offensive then when David Arquette won.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 1:30:05 GMT -5
Don't hate him, but he's just 'meh'. I mean, maybe if he wasn't losing all the time I might actually want to see him wrestle. But as soon as he's on screen I know he's losing so I just FF.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 15, 2012 1:31:24 GMT -5
WWE has this notion that people will only take you seriously if you wrestle in black. While that works for guys like Austin and Triple H, it doesn't exactly always work on others. And yes, I'll agree that Miz looked pretty different with the shorts...hell his "10-0" thing with Cena was something that made sense for a guy like him to do. And the copying of Jericho and Rock is undeniable...he didn't need to go that route. I wish he would just be Mike Mizanin. While I hate how "all main eventers" wear black, I actually like Miz in trunks. I wish he would bring back the various colors that he wore in 2010 and wear the old gloves and arm sleeves with them. I see no similarities with Jericho, other than switching to trunks, which was imposed on him by Vince, and wearing suits, and the way Miz rocks a suit is MUCH different from the way Chris Jericho rocks a suit.
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Frosty
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,800
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Post by Frosty on Mar 15, 2012 1:38:24 GMT -5
Roughly the same number of anti-Miz threads that have cropped up in the past two months. There's been a ton of those, sure, with good reason. Miz was good a for a little awhile and you didn't see as many. Lately, the past few months, he's been sucking, so people are reminded, without the mega push that it took to make them think otherwise, that he's not very good. Guys like Piper, Jake Roberts and Mr Perfect never won the big one but some jackass from MTV gets to win one and win as a heel at Mania, something I think only HHH has done. He is a plague on wrestling and last year was only slightly less offensive then when David Arquette won. I'm going buy more opinions.
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Post by PTBartman on Mar 15, 2012 1:39:26 GMT -5
Roughly the same number of anti-Miz threads that have cropped up in the past two months. There's been a ton of those, sure, with good reason. Miz was good a for a little awhile and you didn't see as many. Lately, the past few months, he's been sucking, so people are reminded, without the mega push that it took to make them think that way, that he's not very good. Guys like Piper, Jake Roberts and Mr Perfect never won the big one but some jackass from MTV gets to win one and win as a heel at Mania, something I think only HHH has done. He is a plague on wrestling and last year was only slightly less offensive then when David Arquette won. The Heel had to win last year in order to set up this years wrestlemania. Wether you think a year long build was a good ideal or not dosen't matter, that's the route they decided to take. And it's intelectually dishonest to refer to him as "some jackass from MTV" as if they pulled Kurt Loder or Martha Quinn in and slapped the belt on them. Miz is a trained profesional wrestler. Yes he was on a reality show but he is also a trained profesional wrestler. Everybody comes from some where. That's like referring to Ron Simmons as some Jackass from the NFL.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 15, 2012 2:12:46 GMT -5
There's been a ton of those, sure, with good reason. Miz was good a for a little awhile and you didn't see as many. Lately, the past few months, he's been sucking, so people are reminded, without the mega push that it took to make them think that way, that he's not very good. Guys like Piper, Jake Roberts and Mr Perfect never won the big one but some jackass from MTV gets to win one and win as a heel at Mania, something I think only HHH has done. He is a plague on wrestling and last year was only slightly less offensive then when David Arquette won. The Heel had to win last year in order to set up this years wrestlemania. Wether you think a year long build was a good ideal or not dosen't matter, that's the route they decided to take. And it's intelectually dishonest to refer to him as "some jackass from MTV" as if they pulled Kurt Loder or Martha Quinn in and slapped the belt on them. Miz is a trained profesional wrestler. Yes he was on a reality show but he is also a trained profesional wrestler. Everybody comes from some where. That's like referring to Ron Simmons as some Jackass from the NFL. Your first point: Yeah, I get it, but they didn't have to use Miz. Plenty of other better heels that could've got that rub. Second point: Where would you rather a wrestling come from? The Real World or the NFL?
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 15, 2012 2:55:44 GMT -5
So you're saying someone can't genuinely hate a heel? I'm saying that if you hate someone who's trying to be hated, occam's razor pretty much leads me to a certain conclusion. I'm also saying that with the Miz particularly, people act like his heel schtick has nothing to do with their own feelings, when of course it's all impossible to separate. That's a classic Miz defense though - "the Miz is actually working you." He isn't working someone when they decide to change the channel. That's the very antithesis of good heel work. Good heel work is and always will be a wrestler making you hate them enough to pay money to watch them get their ass kicked by a face. It can be a seething hatred or a "love to hate" hatred, but all that matters is the heel sells tickets and PPV buys. To hate the Miz for his character is to hate him for his arrogance, for his smugness, for his grandstanding. To hate him for his work is to hate him for his promo work from a technical standpoint, his in-ring work from a technical standpoint, etc. The only way that classic defense holds water is if the Miz's gimmick is to piss off people from a technical standpoint, but because the result is not lucrative at all, that makes it absurd or else indicative of serious problems within WWE. In short, if I dislike Miz because I think he sucks in the ring and on the mic, it has nothing to do with his character. If I change the channel, I'm not being worked.
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Post by Larryhausen on Mar 15, 2012 2:59:34 GMT -5
The Heel had to win last year in order to set up this years wrestlemania. Wether you think a year long build was a good ideal or not dosen't matter, that's the route they decided to take. And it's intelectually dishonest to refer to him as "some jackass from MTV" as if they pulled Kurt Loder or Martha Quinn in and slapped the belt on them. Miz is a trained profesional wrestler. Yes he was on a reality show but he is also a trained profesional wrestler. Everybody comes from some where. That's like referring to Ron Simmons as some Jackass from the NFL. Your first point: Yeah, I get it, but they didn't have to use Miz. Plenty of other better heels that could've got that rub. Second point: Where would you rather a wrestling come from? The Real World or the NFL? As long as they're a trained professional wrestler, I don't care where they came from
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 15, 2012 3:41:18 GMT -5
I'm saying that if you hate someone who's trying to be hated, occam's razor pretty much leads me to a certain conclusion. I'm also saying that with the Miz particularly, people act like his heel schtick has nothing to do with their own feelings, when of course it's all impossible to separate. That's a classic Miz defense though - "the Miz is actually working you." He isn't working someone when they decide to change the channel. That's the very antithesis of good heel work. Good heel work is and always will be a wrestler making you hate them enough to pay money to watch them get their ass kicked by a face. It can be a seething hatred or a "love to hate" hatred, but all that matters is the heel sells tickets and PPV buys. To hate the Miz for his character is to hate him for his arrogance, for his smugness, for his grandstanding. To hate him for his work is to hate him for his promo work from a technical standpoint, his in-ring work from a technical standpoint, etc. The only way that classic defense holds water is if the Miz's gimmick is to piss off people from a technical standpoint, but because the result is not lucrative at all, that makes it absurd or else indicative of serious problems within WWE. In short, if I dislike Miz because I think he sucks in the ring and on the mic, it has nothing to do with his character. If I change the channel, I'm not being worked. Glad you said it. If Miz was working us, wouldn't we be loving his recent run of losses? I don't. Better than him winning, but I'd like it even better if he wasn't on tv.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 15, 2012 4:51:36 GMT -5
Where would you rather a wrestler come from? The Real World or the NFL? Doesn't matter to me. Is Mike Mizanin not allowed to transcend reality TV? To me, being on the Real World proves that Miz can entertain.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 15, 2012 5:09:17 GMT -5
Second point: Where would you rather a wrestling come from? The Real World or the NFL? Does it really matter? Wrestlers come from different backgrounds. Some were professional athletes before wrestling, some weren't. Some were college athletes, some weren't. What they did before wrestling holds little interest to me.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 15, 2012 5:19:06 GMT -5
Second point: Where would you rather a wrestling come from? The Real World or the NFL? Does it really matter? Wrestlers come from different backgrounds. Some were professional athletes before wrestling, some weren't. Some were college athletes, some weren't. What they did before wrestling holds little interest to me. Yeah it does. To a degree. Wrestler's should come from some sort of athletic background, since they're going to be getting physical. When you have reality stars try to do it they're worried about getting hurt and don't catch people when they fly out of the ring. If Miz was as good as another ex-athlete like Rock, Brock or Ron Simmons (since he was mentioned) then I wouldn't care either but despite "busting his ass" for 8 years he's still only mediocre. It's as good as he's going to get.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 15, 2012 5:31:40 GMT -5
Does it really matter? Wrestlers come from different backgrounds. Some were professional athletes before wrestling, some weren't. Some were college athletes, some weren't. What they did before wrestling holds little interest to me. Yeah it does. To a degree. Wrestler's should come from some sort of athletic background, since they're going to be getting physical. When you have reality stars try to do it they're worried about getting hurt and don't catch people when they fly out of the ring. If Miz was as good as another ex-athlete like Rock, Brock or Ron Simmons (since he was mentioned) then I wouldn't care either but despite "busting his ass" for 8 years he's still only mediocre. It's as good as he's going to get. Miz does have a slight athletic background. He played sports in high school (although he didn't wrestle or play football). And even though he didn't finish college or play professional sports, he did get physical in the Real World/Road Rules Challenges. In fact it was during that time period when he started gaining the weight he needed to wrestle. It's unfortunate what happened to R-Truth, but Miz is not a giant botch machine. He's not Sin Cara or I'm going to punch myself in the face for saying this, Alex Riley or anything like that. What Miz lacks in the ring, he makes up for with his mic skills. As long as he isn't a danger to his opponents (barring the R-Truth incident) he's fine. Miz could stand to expand his moveset a bit, but he doesn't need a bunch of moonsaults, German suplexes or anything flashy like that.
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