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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 15, 2012 5:35:03 GMT -5
Does it really matter? Wrestlers come from different backgrounds. Some were professional athletes before wrestling, some weren't. Some were college athletes, some weren't. What they did before wrestling holds little interest to me. Yeah it does. To a degree. Wrestler's should come from some sort of athletic background, since they're going to be getting physical. When you have reality stars try to do it they're worried about getting hurt and don't catch people when they fly out of the ring. If Miz was as good as another ex-athlete like Rock, Brock or Ron Simmons (since he was mentioned) then I wouldn't care either but despite "busting his ass" for 8 years he's still only mediocre. It's as good as he's going to get. Miz was an athlete at high school and college, captain of the basketball and cross country teams, as well as being in the swim team. That count? |
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 15, 2012 6:09:58 GMT -5
Yeah it does. To a degree. Wrestler's should come from some sort of athletic background, since they're going to be getting physical. When you have reality stars try to do it they're worried about getting hurt and don't catch people when they fly out of the ring. If Miz was as good as another ex-athlete like Rock, Brock or Ron Simmons (since he was mentioned) then I wouldn't care either but despite "busting his ass" for 8 years he's still only mediocre. It's as good as he's going to get. Miz does have a slight athletic background. He played sports in high school (although he didn't wrestle or play football). And even though he didn't finish college or play professional sports, he did get physical in the Real World/Road Rules Challenges. In fact it was during that time period when he started gaining the weight he needed to wrestle. It's unfortunate what happened to R-Truth, but Miz is not a giant botch machine. He's not Sin Cara or I'm going to punch myself in the face for saying this, Alex Riley or anything like that. What Miz lacks in the ring, he makes up for with his mic skills. As long as he isn't a danger to his opponents (barring the R-Truth incident) he's fine. Miz could stand to expand his moveset a bit, but he doesn't need a bunch of moonsaults, German suplexes or anything flashy like that. No he doesn't have to be spot monkey, but he's not that great at ring psychology. Maybe you think I'm trashing him too much but the best I've seen him do is two and half star matches and two and a half star promos. He deserves a spot on the card but I don't think he should ever main event again. |
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 15, 2012 6:22:43 GMT -5
I keep reading this as Miz is a plaque on wrestling.
Some Plaque Control Crest will clear that right up.
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Post by PTBartman on Mar 15, 2012 8:42:02 GMT -5
The Heel had to win last year in order to set up this years wrestlemania. Wether you think a year long build was a good ideal or not dosen't matter, that's the route they decided to take. And it's intelectually dishonest to refer to him as "some jackass from MTV" as if they pulled Kurt Loder or Martha Quinn in and slapped the belt on them. Miz is a trained profesional wrestler. Yes he was on a reality show but he is also a trained profesional wrestler. Everybody comes from some where. That's like referring to Ron Simmons as some Jackass from the NFL. Your first point: Yeah, I get it, but they didn't have to use Miz. Plenty of other better heels that could've got that rub. Second point: Where would you rather a wrestling come from? The Real World or the NFL? Seriously? It doesnt Matter to me. The NFL gave us Ron Simmons but it also gave us Mongo. That's not the point though. The point is, the Miz isn't just a jackass from MTV. I understand you don't like him, thats fine but at least be fair and give the devil his due. |
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Mar 15, 2012 8:44:18 GMT -5
Here's the thing, Miz being "mediocre" is a matter of opinion but it's impossible to deny that Miz busts his ass day in and day out for the WWE whether it's performing on the road or doing press functions. Like it or not, Miz is living his dream and who would half-ass that?
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Post by PTBartman on Mar 15, 2012 8:58:22 GMT -5
And the Lord sayeth unto Christian "Let my people go. Or I sall unleash a plague on you and you Shall know my wrath and fear me."
But Christian hardened his heart and refused the lord and refused to free the Malaysians.
This Angered The lord, so the Lord appeared and sayeth again "Christian let my people go"
And again Christian refused, angering the lord.
So the Lord had no choice, He unleashed the plague known as the Miz.
And it was....AWWWWWWSOME!
(OK, now it makes sense)
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Post by redpyramidsh on Mar 15, 2012 9:03:05 GMT -5
I used to be of the opinion that Miz doesn't carry his weight in the ring. As great as the Miz/Morrison New Year's WWE Title match was, you can see that Morrison is doing pretty much all the legwork in that match.
Then at extreme rules he took a sick bump that I thought killed him off the cage from Cena and I forgave Miz, just in time for him to never get close to the ME again~
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Mar 15, 2012 9:10:08 GMT -5
And the Lord sayeth unto Christian "Let my people go. Or I sall unleash a plague on you and you Shall know my wrath and fear me." But Christian hardened his heart and refused the lord and refused to free the Malaysians. This Angered The lord, so the Lord appeared and sayeth again "Christian let my people go" And again Christian refused, angering the lord. So the Lord had no choice, He unleashed the plague known as the Miz. And it was....AWWWWWWSOME! (OK, now it makes sense)  |
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,704 
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 15, 2012 9:34:23 GMT -5
The thing is, he didn't go straight from The Real World to WWE like people claim. He went from The Real World, to the indy scene, to Tough Enough, to Deep South, to OVW and finally made his Smackdown debut in 2006. He didn't win the WWE Title until November 2010.
Just throwing that out there, since in the hyperbole version he went from The Real World to WWE Champion in the span of a couple of years.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 15, 2012 10:03:34 GMT -5
Here's the thing, Miz being "mediocre" is a matter of opinion but it's impossible to deny that Miz busts his ass day in and day out for the WWE whether it's performing on the road or doing press functions. Like it or not, Miz is living his dream and who would half-ass that? That's how I can't wish for him to get fired like some other people, no matter how bad he's percieved as being. It's pretty heelish to want to take a man's dream job away from him just because he doesn't entertain you. Though to be honest, he really does seem to be phoning it in lately. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 11:27:41 GMT -5
Second point: Where would you rather a wrestling come from? The Real World or the NFL? Does it really matter? Wrestlers come from different backgrounds. Some were professional athletes before wrestling, some weren't. Some were college athletes, some weren't. What they did before wrestling holds little interest to me. Exactly. Jericho, Punk, Daniel Bryan, Triple H, R-Truth, Zack Ryder, Christian, etc didn't have these athletic backgrounds. Yes they probably played sports in high school but I'm sure 100% of the roster did that. Including yes The Miz. |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Mar 15, 2012 14:03:24 GMT -5
I'm saying that if you hate someone who's trying to be hated, occam's razor pretty much leads me to a certain conclusion. I'm also saying that with the Miz particularly, people act like his heel schtick has nothing to do with their own feelings, when of course it's all impossible to separate. That's a classic Miz defense though - "the Miz is actually working you." He isn't working someone when they decide to change the channel. That's the very antithesis of good heel work. Good heel work is and always will be a wrestler making you hate them enough to pay money to watch them get their ass kicked by a face. It can be a seething hatred or a "love to hate" hatred, but all that matters is the heel sells tickets and PPV buys. To hate the Miz for his character is to hate him for his arrogance, for his smugness, for his grandstanding. To hate him for his work is to hate him for his promo work from a technical standpoint, his in-ring work from a technical standpoint, etc. The only way that classic defense holds water is if the Miz's gimmick is to piss off people from a technical standpoint, but because the result is not lucrative at all, that makes it absurd or else indicative of serious problems within WWE. In short, if I dislike Miz because I think he sucks in the ring and on the mic, it has nothing to do with his character. If I change the channel, I'm not being worked. But you're trying to separate things that can't be separated. First of all, you guys are acting like it's some kind of objective fact that Miz is losing the WWE money, causing people to change the channel, causing fans to sit on their hands, keeping people from buying PPVs, and there's absolutely no evidence for that. In fact, there's evidence AGAINST it, in that he almost always gets an audible reaction from the fans, and the WWE, who specifically monitors this stuff, puts him on TV for a long time every week. Second, I know you think you're some kind of emotionally intelligent, completely self-aware being who knows exactly why you have every feeling in your mind. Everyone thinks that about themselves. But you're not. All the Miz-haters are all so certain that they REALLY hate him for these meta, aware, cerebral, smart, unmarkish reasons, as if his booking and his (effective) heel character have nothing to do with it, and I'm sorry, that is just not credible. |
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Post by dragonfire1988 on Mar 15, 2012 19:28:19 GMT -5
Internet fans f***ing piss me off.
The Miz is such a great heel that people can't accept the fact that he is working them. They make excuses and attack his ring skills.
When did ring skills matter? Why should they? What matters is charisma. Miz has it. Rock had it. Hogan had it. You don't need to be the best technical wrestler in the world, all you need is IT.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Mar 15, 2012 19:51:42 GMT -5
Internet fans f***ing piss me off. The Miz is such a great heel that people can't accept the fact that he is working them. They make excuses and attack his ring skills. When did ring skills matter? Why should they? What matters is charisma. Miz has it. Rock had it. Hogan had it. You don't need to be the best technical wrestler in the world, all you need is IT.  Ring skills matter because ultimately people aren't gonna pay to see someone talk, they are gonna pay to see action. You can talk people into the building, but if you don't deliver in the ring, they won't come back. That's why the greats are the greats in the business. Miz doesn't have 'It' like the greats do, hell, he's been overshadowed by guys like Cody, Del Rio and Ziggler last year mainly because they have improved in the ring and on the mic and Miz has pretty much stayed the same. However, the WWE likes him and if they want him to be on top, they'll force it until it becomes accepted. |
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Post by dragonfire1988 on Mar 15, 2012 20:06:11 GMT -5
Who do you consider to be great? I truly believe that in ring work is to subjective to rate.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Mar 15, 2012 20:12:45 GMT -5
Who do you consider to be great? I truly believe that in ring work is to subjective to rate. You say in ring work is subjective while stating that all you need is IT. Talk about a term that's subjective... |
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,182
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 15, 2012 20:14:05 GMT -5
Internet fans f***ing piss me off. The Miz is such a great heel that people can't accept the fact that he is working them. They make excuses and attack his ring skills. When did ring skills matter? Why should they? What matters is charisma. Miz has it. Rock had it. Hogan had it. You don't need to be the best technical wrestler in the world, all you need is IT. Internet fans piss you off.....So you piss yourself off? |
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,704
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 15, 2012 20:14:52 GMT -5
Internet fans f***ing piss me off. I'm sorry you feel that way but unless there's a guy holding a gun to your head and making you sign up for and post on internet message boards I have a pretty simple solution to your predicament. |
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Post by PTBartman on Mar 15, 2012 21:18:52 GMT -5
Internet fans f***ing piss me off. I'm sorry you feel that way but unless there's a guy holding a gun to your head and making you sign up for and post on internet message boards I have a pretty simple solution to your predicament. Don't listen to him Dragonfire cause you know damn well I will pull this trigger. Put another post up. (click) Start typing. NOW! |
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Post by dragonfire1988 on Mar 15, 2012 21:22:00 GMT -5
I'm sorry you feel that way but unless there's a guy holding a gun to your head and making you sign up for and post on internet message boards I have a pretty simple solution to your predicament. Don't listen to him Dragonfire cause you know damn well I will pull this trigger. Put another post up. (click) Start typing. NOW! Dude, please dont do it! I got kids to feed! LOL I'd like to clarify my statement. I hate the kind of internet fan who falls into the category of the stereo type. |
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