Legion
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Post by Legion on Jun 10, 2012 8:24:57 GMT -5
can't say I'm surprised. as much as Bendis tried, Norman Osborne's never going to be anything other than a Spider-man villain (and that's how it should be IMO). And your opinion is wrong  It's likely due to him still being owned by Sony. Norman has been elevated to an all heroes threat now, and it's one of the few things Bendis has done with the Avengers that I really, really like. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 10:02:46 GMT -5
Oh, more War Machine. Joy. Is it wrong I half hope he winds up being used to make the villain look good?
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 10, 2012 10:18:13 GMT -5
can't say I'm surprised. as much as Bendis tried, Norman Osborne's never going to be anything other than a Spider-man villain (and that's how it should be IMO). And your opinion is wrong It's likely due to him still being owned by Sony. Norman has been elevated to an all heroes threat now, and it's one of the few things Bendis has done with the Avengers that I really, really like. I totally disagree. it was so forced and stupid. you expect me to believe that a man whose publicly known to be a mass murdering psychopath would ever be given that job? Norman Osbourne is a rich scientist who screwed up one of his own experiments and lost everything. and then he suddenly has it all back even though the american government KNEW DAMN WELL he was nuts and had buried him in the Thunderbolts program to get rid of him. he's NOT some expert espionage spy on par with Nick Fury, he's a mad scientist wit delusions of grandeur. the whole story required us to suddenly believe Norman was some kind of military genius even though he never had been before. they grafted a bunch of skills and abilities onto him he never had before and never explained it. if they wanted a character to be a poor man's Lex Luthor, they already had Justin Hammer, who already had history with Iron Man and would have meant a lot more as the Iron Patriot than Norman did. or hell, Count Nefaria. trying to make Norman anything other than the Green Goblin was a stupid idea and I'm glad Bendis is leaving Avengers because that whole story was a hot piece of nonsense. |
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by Legion on Jun 10, 2012 10:24:53 GMT -5
Except it wasnt in the whole world that had been set up by Civil War and then Secret Invasion.
Civil War left the world unable to trust its heroes, and then Secret Invasion left you unable to trust your neighbour. Then here comes a guy, he's done wrong, he doesn't even deny it, but look, he killed the Skrull Queen when all the heroes were fighting amongst themselves. And now he says he can protect us?
Of course the public would go for that, the public, in times of fear and uncertainty ALWAYS follow the strong voice.
Norman was the strong voice. The people flocked to that and politicians want to get re-elected. If the people love a guy, then you promote the hell out of that guy, you put him front and centre and then, when he crashes and burns you cut all ties. Exactly what happened to Norman.
The character has evolved beyond Green Goblin, but is still clearly Green Goblin inside. He's still fixated on Spiderman, but now he hates the rest of them as well.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 10, 2012 10:29:43 GMT -5
Except it wasnt in the whole world that had been set up by Civil War and then Secret Invasion. Civil War left the world unable to trust its heroes, and then Secret Invasion left you unable to trust your neighbour. Then here comes a guy, he's done wrong, he doesn't even deny it, but look, he killed the Skrull Queen when all the heroes were fighting amongst themselves. And now he says he can protect us? Of course the public would go for that, the public, in times of fear and uncertainty ALWAYS follow the strong voice. Norman was the strong voice. The people flocked to that and politicians want to get re-elected. If the people love a guy, then you promote the hell out of that guy, you put him front and centre and then, when he crashes and burns you cut all ties. Exactly what happened to Norman. The character has evolved beyond Green Goblin, but is still clearly Green Goblin inside. He's still fixated on Spiderman, but now he hates the rest of them as well. so they trust a mass murderer who bombed his own arraignment hearing. not trusting heroes doesn;'t mean you trust a guy whose a known psychopath. it'd be like making Charles Manson the director of homeland security. it was like they pretended the character had no history before Dark Reign, and actively ignored other characters who'd have made much better choices for the role. and they also gave him skills he never had before and never explained it. sorry, man this isn't something I'm gonna change my mind about. |
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jun 10, 2012 10:41:17 GMT -5
How much of Norman's past do the public actually know though?
Not to mention, as a Spider-Man villain, Marvel have always had this weird thing about making the public hate Spider-Man. So would they care he was a Spider-Man enemy?
Not to mention clones. In Spider-Man's universe, whenever anything goes tits up, blame it on a clone.
I just like Norman Osbourne, I think he is a great character and works much better in the role he's in now than he had as Green Goblin since he killed Gwen.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 10, 2012 10:53:02 GMT -5
as I said before, HE BOMBED HIS OWN ARRAIGNMENT HEARING! a few years before the Dark Reign arc (which for the record I did enjoy mostly, I just thought Norman was a bad choice) he got outted as the Green Goblin by Luke Cage and when he got convicted he had a breakdown and started throwing goblin bombs everywhere. I think they were going to do a "Osborne has really screwed the pooch, can't use any plausible deniability and will be on the run for the rest of his llife" story but then Warren Ellis got ahold of him and wrote him so well in Thunderbolts they changed their minds. they just never explained it.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jun 10, 2012 11:05:01 GMT -5
So what?
My counter point is that I really don't see the average person giving a damn that he bombed his arraignment hearing. Civil War and Secret Invasion left Marvel Earth desperate, and there was Norman, picking up the pieces.
Had he bombed his hearing on the same day, maybe, but a few years later? Who cares?
If politics in the real world tells us anything it is that the public are idiots and will follow anything blindly as long as the person is telling them what they want to hear.
There are big plot holes, for sure, but Norman just worked, works, in that role.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 10, 2012 11:18:13 GMT -5
let's just agree to disagree then. I mean, I'm willing to buy a lot of things, but people suddenly forgetting Norman Osbourne's a mass murderer is like forgetting what Jeffrey Dahmer did. do you honestly believe that if an IRL serial killer suddenly ran for office everyone would forget just because he hasn't killed ayone lately?
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jun 10, 2012 11:20:53 GMT -5
let's just agree to disagree then. I mean, I'm willing to buy a lot of things, but people suddenly forgetting Norman Osbourne's a mass murderer is like forgetting what Jeffrey Dahmer did. do you honestly believe that if an IRL serial killer suddenly ran for office everyone would forget just because he hasn't killed ayone lately? In real life? No. In the Marvelverse, where the f***ing Red Skull became Secretary of Defense? Well... |
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jun 10, 2012 11:37:08 GMT -5
let's just agree to disagree then. I mean, I'm willing to buy a lot of things, but people suddenly forgetting Norman Osbourne's a mass murderer is like forgetting what Jeffrey Dahmer did. do you honestly believe that if an IRL serial killer suddenly ran for office everyone would forget just because he hasn't killed ayone lately? Yeah, we can agree to disagree, but this isn't the real world. The is the Marvel Universe. The people there are stupid. Really, really stupid. |
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Post by xCompackx on Jun 10, 2012 11:45:59 GMT -5
Wait, so i'm not "up-to-date" on the Marvel universe but when did Norman Osbourne become more than Spider-Man's enemy? Was him dying just a movie thing?
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jun 10, 2012 11:48:00 GMT -5
let's just agree to disagree then. I mean, I'm willing to buy a lot of things, but people suddenly forgetting Norman Osbourne's a mass murderer is like forgetting what Jeffrey Dahmer did. do you honestly believe that if an IRL serial killer suddenly ran for office everyone would forget just because he hasn't killed ayone lately? In real life? No. In the Marvelverse, where the f***ing Red Skull became Secretary of Defense? Well... To be fair, Red Skull did so under an alias, so that's a bit different than the Osborn deal. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 10, 2012 11:49:48 GMT -5
can't say I'm surprised. as much as Bendis tried, Norman Osborne's never going to be anything other than a Spider-man villain (and that's how it should be IMO). And your opinion is wrong It's likely due to him still being owned by Sony. Norman has been elevated to an all heroes threat now, and it's one of the few things Bendis has done with the Avengers that I really, really like. Nossir, his opinion is the correct one.  |
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Rhody Codes
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Post by Rhody Codes on Jun 10, 2012 11:50:34 GMT -5
Wait, so i'm not "up-to-date" on the Marvel universe but when did Norman Osbourne become more than Spider-Man's enemy? Was him dying just a movie thing? After the Secret Invasion storyline, Norman saved the world from Skrulls and was made "America's top cop" after Tony Stark's failure in stopping the Skrulls. Naturally, putting bad guys in charge of the defense of the U.S. wasn't really a good idea, and after Siege they made Steve Rogers top cop to replace the out-of-control Osborn. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 10, 2012 11:51:51 GMT -5
Wait, so i'm not "up-to-date" on the Marvel universe but when did Norman Osbourne become more than Spider-Man's enemy? Was him dying just a movie thing? It's really complicated. He died back in the seventies, they brought him back in the mid nineties, and he's been a miscast Lex Luthor clone for a few years now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 12:36:02 GMT -5
Not going to get too involved in this debate, but all I want to say is I love the Ellis/Bendis Norman Osborn and he's been one of my favourite characters since I started reading comics about 12 years ago.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 10, 2012 12:40:57 GMT -5
I like ELLIS' take on Osborn just fine. that guy was a barely restrained psycho who the government thought of as a joke. he spent all day muttering to himself about Spider-man. his own team constantly one-upped him, and whenever he DID get the upper hand something would happen to remind him of how small time he was. and then he went crazy in the most awesome fashion I've EVER seen a villain lose their mind.
then Bendis decided he was evil Nick Fury for no reason.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jun 10, 2012 12:50:19 GMT -5
But that right there is your reason!
He'd been made a joke, a loser, small time and nothing. But they let him in. They gave him the Thunderbolts, they gave him the base, they gave him an in. And he took it. He exploited it. It paid off for him.......and then he broke down again.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jul 14, 2012 20:49:16 GMT -5
Mark VIII armor  |
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