Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2012 14:28:27 GMT -5
The only thing I don't like about this deal is the fact that they're most definitely suspending him for corporate reasons, not because they think what he did was wrong.
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Post by CubsFan71 on May 25, 2012 14:31:11 GMT -5
While I can't stand hypersensitivity, I think a lot of people are making a big deal because this is Jericho, and lots of guys here worship the dirt he walks on. If this were Khali or Big Show or some other guy the IWC hates there would be a lot more understanding for the Brazilians but since this is Jericho it's nothing but BS and nonsense. I would've said the exact same thing if it were HORNSWOGGLE this had happened to. The point being, what happened is pure bullshit no matter who it would have happened to |
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
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Post by Lancers on May 25, 2012 14:39:11 GMT -5
If there were plenty of bulls*** laws in Canada I would definitely stand up against them. This is a bit of an extreme example, but what about Rosa Parks. She rode on the bus where a white person should sit and got arrested for it. Am I xenophobic for saying that law was bulls***? And brought by a Brazillian, to them it was entertainment, boo that heel, but the bulls*** law was almost enforced and Jericho was forced to apologize. What about Martin Luther King Jr, going to jail for violating unjust laws. The freedom riders, black and white students standing up against the bulls*** laws of segregation. Should he have apologized to the white cops wanting to throw him in an Alabama jail? Is it ok to stone women who got raped because that's the punishment for an unjust law. f*** unjust laws and this is one of them. Going to jail for kicking a flag, the fact people accept this blows my mind.  |
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babyfootball
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Post by babyfootball on May 25, 2012 14:49:08 GMT -5
Think about the wrestling world this time yesterday. Pre-Jericho Booted from Brazil.
Would anybody (at that time) have been able to come up with this story off the top of their head? Such weirdness.
I think it's quite strange that WWE is levying him with such a harsh penalty. What happened to JBL when he goosestepped in Germany? That was probably even lower in terms of disrespect to a nation of people.
I don't really blame Jericho that much for this. It's different here in America where we generally are allowed to exhibit ineffectual, meaningless forms of offensive free speech (see our popular music, movies and other forms of entertainment), but nobody in a "serious" setting would ever think about doing that to the American (or any other) flag. It's easy to forget that a lot of the rest of the world doesn't have quite the sense of disconnect when it comes to "real life" vs. "fake life."
Though now that I think about it, when HBK did this in Canada many moons (pun intended) ago I thought it was extremely cheap and low (although it at least made sense in the realm of a huge angle). I think this is pretty indicative of where Jericho's at creatively right now. He's been really stale and bad lately (though his in-ring work is still above average). He can be so much more creative than this.
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Post by Richard on May 25, 2012 14:54:30 GMT -5
CHRIS JERICHO SUSPENSION UPDATE
by Dave Scherer @ 3:46 PM on 5/25/2012
WWE has announced that Chris Jericho's suspension will last for 30 days, which would mean he won't appear at the No Way Out PPV unless they make an exception.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on May 25, 2012 14:56:27 GMT -5
Allow me to quote Eric Bischoff here:
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on May 25, 2012 15:05:47 GMT -5
CHRIS JERICHO SUSPENSION UPDATE by Dave Scherer @ 3:46 PM on 5/25/2012 WWE has announced that Chris Jericho's suspension will last for 30 days, which would mean he won't appear at the No Way Out PPV unless they make an exception. Randy Orton better be damn glad! Now he won't have to face a man that IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD AT WHAT...HE...DOES! |
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paywindah
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He's goin' to da paywindah here on da muddaship TBS.
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Post by paywindah on May 25, 2012 15:10:09 GMT -5
Works out for Jericho as he would have been bouncing back and forth between WWE and his Fozzy gigs for the next 3-4 weeks (including a UK tour) anyway. Less travel back and forth and he'll be back for the July PPV if they need him before leaving in August again for another tour.
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Post by Brian Suntan on May 25, 2012 15:18:08 GMT -5
Yes, hence the "that's illegal" chants. I doubt there were coppers around or that they were that bothered. There are differences in enforcement in things like that - if someone makes a complaint then they might act, but otherwise they're not going to send the massed forces of Scotland Yard after you. Also, enough of the idiot xenophobic comments. I bet there are plenty of laws in your country that others think of as backwards! While it's not the sort of thing that offends me, you obey the laws of the country you visit. When in Rome and all that. Or you deal with getting arrested. William Regal tweeted me this story a while back: "In the old coliseum in Jackson Fl in 94 there was an American flag hanging on the wall and after a match with Larry Z I went to pull it down and a cop stuck a gun to my head and said"I suggest you don't do that sir".I went completely out of character and said"I'm dreadfully sorry" and just walked back to the dressing room like a muppet" So, legal or not, plenty of people your supposed civilised countries get uppity at things like that. If there were plenty of bulls*** laws in Canada I would definitely stand up against them. This is a bit of an extreme example, but what about Rosa Parks. She rode on the bus where a white person should sit and got arrested for it. Am I xenophobic for saying that law was bulls***? And brought by a Brazillian, to them it was entertainment, boo that heel, but the bulls*** law was almost enforced and Jericho was forced to apologize. What about Martin Luther King Jr, going to jail for violating unjust laws. The freedom riders, black and white students standing up against the bulls*** laws of segregation. Should he have apologized to the white cops wanting to throw him in an Alabama jail? Is it ok to stone women who got raped because that's the punishment for an unjust law. f*** unjust laws and this is one of them. Going to jail for kicking a flag, the fact people accept this blows my mind. I think the point is, it's up to people who live in Brazil to decide the laws they abide by, as opposed to a bunch of foreigners just turning up and doing what they like. If anything that attitude is more disrespectful than the flag kicking itself. If enough Brazilians feel strongly enough that they rise up and get that law changed, more power to them. Until then, if you want to go to their country, you live by their laws. FWIW, I doubt Vince really cares, and Jericho will be back sooner than later. It's a global company and they'd do well not to piss off one of the biggest countries in the world in any way. |
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on May 25, 2012 15:21:54 GMT -5
It's time for another edition of...  Good idea...  Posing with the flag of your host nation. Bad idea...  Playing football with the flag of your host nation. THE END |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on May 25, 2012 15:23:46 GMT -5
CHRIS JERICHO SUSPENSION UPDATE by Dave Scherer @ 3:46 PM on 5/25/2012 WWE has announced that Chris Jericho's suspension will last for 30 days, which would mean he won't appear at the No Way Out PPV unless they make an exception. Randy Orton better be damn glad! Now he won't have to face a man that IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD AT WHAT...HE...DOES! I dunno, I've seen some really good trolls in my day. |
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Post by Urfarkendarf on May 25, 2012 15:29:53 GMT -5
Jericho's Fozzy break is coming as well. May not see him back til fall.
Total overreaction. Understandable with the corporate aspect. The apology out of character should have sufficed.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on May 25, 2012 16:33:32 GMT -5
I don't even necessarily think Y2J apologizing on the threat of incarceration was an anti-heel thing to do. It's just like Big Show breaking down and crying on the threat of getting future endeavored-- self-preservation trumps a person's own pride, and Jericho just didn't want to go to jail. He didn't necessarily 'learn his lesson'.
In that way, this could still be a work, especially since it conveniently frees up the Fozzy band dates and gives RKO someone more 'hot' to feud with for the PPV than the guy with the light-up jacket who's been on a serious losing-streak for months.
And there's that controversy = cash thing I mentioned earlier, too. This could be the thing to get the IWC back on Jericho's side, or at least talking about him more.
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 25, 2012 16:34:58 GMT -5
If there were plenty of bulls*** laws in Canada I would definitely stand up against them. This is a bit of an extreme example, but what about Rosa Parks. She rode on the bus where a white person should sit and got arrested for it. Am I xenophobic for saying that law was bulls***? And brought by a Brazillian, to them it was entertainment, boo that heel, but the bulls*** law was almost enforced and Jericho was forced to apologize. What about Martin Luther King Jr, going to jail for violating unjust laws. The freedom riders, black and white students standing up against the bulls*** laws of segregation. Should he have apologized to the white cops wanting to throw him in an Alabama jail? Is it ok to stone women who got raped because that's the punishment for an unjust law. f*** unjust laws and this is one of them. Going to jail for kicking a flag, the fact people accept this blows my mind. Oh my giddy aunt.... Did you seriously just compare whiny wrestling fans to MLK? I think that has to be a whole new iteration of Godwin's Law really.... Incidentally (god I can't believe I'm actually engaging in this), MLK and co were actually US citizens and had a bit of a clue about the laws they were engaging with, no? Complete with a legal case being argued. As opposed to "Waa waa waa stupid cheap heat is so much more important than laws I don't understand in a completely different country". Hehe, "Chris Jericho - Civil Rights Crusader".... I think really they showed they were being quite reasonable to say "Er look mate, that's illegal here. You really need to apologise now and explain you didn't mean offence or we're really going to have to take you into custody". Hardly deserving of the scorn on here. Incidentally, I may stand corrected on the UK smoking thing. In Scotland, which implemented the ban first, it was illegal even in cases of performance, because there was a big hoohah about Mel Smith planning to defy the ban when playing Churchill at the Fringe, but the law will no doubt be different in England and Wales. Back. I had a break at work. Anyway, the reason I went the civil rights route was based in MLK Jr.'s letter from jail and one quote from it. "It is one's moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." I need to read the whole thing though soon. I first heard that quote though I haven't read the whole thing yet, but should. It doesn't matter if it's civil disobedience or by accident. An unjust law is bulls*** either way. I enjoy the mocking tone, hilarious of course, but it's all based on principle. It doesn't matter if it was for cheap heat, a rebellion against the system or whatever. It's a bad law and Jericho shouldn't have had to apologize. What if a protestor from Rio did it? I would still be just as outraged, likely more because of the circumstances. I also obviously know the difference between this and the civil rights examples I mentioned, but I base it all on an underlying principle of free speech and free expression. Earlier on I said the Brazillians were backward and I was passionate and thought of a certain State that recently had an unjust law enacted. Not everyone in that State is backward, well, 69% are if I read the poll right. That's why I over generalized and I was wrong in that. I did that on page 7 according to my phone. |
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 25, 2012 16:38:44 GMT -5
If there were plenty of bulls*** laws in Canada I would definitely stand up against them. This is a bit of an extreme example, but what about Rosa Parks. She rode on the bus where a white person should sit and got arrested for it. Am I xenophobic for saying that law was bulls***? And brought by a Brazillian, to them it was entertainment, boo that heel, but the bulls*** law was almost enforced and Jericho was forced to apologize. What about Martin Luther King Jr, going to jail for violating unjust laws. The freedom riders, black and white students standing up against the bulls*** laws of segregation. Should he have apologized to the white cops wanting to throw him in an Alabama jail? Is it ok to stone women who got raped because that's the punishment for an unjust law. f*** unjust laws and this is one of them. Going to jail for kicking a flag, the fact people accept this blows my mind. I think the point is, it's up to people who live in Brazil to decide the laws they abide by, as opposed to a bunch of foreigners just turning up and doing what they like. If anything that attitude is more disrespectful than the flag kicking itself. If enough Brazilians feel strongly enough that they rise up and get that law changed, more power to them. Until then, if you want to go to their country, you live by their laws. So if a country says it's not ok for a woman to walk around unsupervised, that's ok? How about killing someone for being gay? This is why I get up in arms about this stuff. Just because it's ok in one country doesn't mean I or anyone else should respect that law or the people who feel that law is just. By the way, I'm at work and can't keep coming back to respond but please don't lock the thread, I find discussions like this interesting. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2012 16:45:18 GMT -5
He had better stay gone, if he comes back Vince is going to give him some grade A crap angles(with (Brazilian)Kane)
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Post by notonyourradar on May 25, 2012 17:07:34 GMT -5
This is so stupid.
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zing
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Talk about him more!
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Post by zing on May 25, 2012 17:07:39 GMT -5
Oh my giddy aunt.... Did you seriously just compare whiny wrestling fans to MLK? I think that has to be a whole new iteration of Godwin's Law really.... Incidentally (god I can't believe I'm actually engaging in this), MLK and co were actually US citizens and had a bit of a clue about the laws they were engaging with, no? Complete with a legal case being argued. As opposed to "Waa waa waa stupid cheap heat is so much more important than laws I don't understand in a completely different country". Hehe, "Chris Jericho - Civil Rights Crusader".... I think really they showed they were being quite reasonable to say "Er look mate, that's illegal here. You really need to apologise now and explain you didn't mean offence or we're really going to have to take you into custody". Hardly deserving of the scorn on here. Incidentally, I may stand corrected on the UK smoking thing. In Scotland, which implemented the ban first, it was illegal even in cases of performance, because there was a big hoohah about Mel Smith planning to defy the ban when playing Churchill at the Fringe, but the law will no doubt be different in England and Wales. Back. I had a break at work. Anyway, the reason I went the civil rights route was based in MLK Jr.'s letter from jail and one quote from it. "It is one's moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." I need to read the whole thing though soon. I first heard that quote though I haven't read the whole thing yet, but should. It doesn't matter if it's civil disobedience or by accident. An unjust law is bulls*** either way. I enjoy the mocking tone, hilarious of course, but it's all based on principle. It doesn't matter if it was for cheap heat, a rebellion against the system or whatever. It's a bad law and Jericho shouldn't have had to apologize. What if a protestor from Rio did it? I would still be just as outraged, likely more because of the circumstances. I also obviously know the difference between this and the civil rights examples I mentioned, but I base it all on an underlying principle of free speech. Earlier on I said the Brazillians were backward and I was passionate and thought of a certain State that recently had an unjust law enacted. Not everyone in that State is backward, well, 69% are if I read the poll right. So, who are you to decide what is and is not unjust? MLK et al had and pursued a legal case as I said in my last post. What legal justification do you have for challenging Brazilian law in this way? Indeed, what right do you have as a non-Brazilian to interfere? Know where else has an issue with flag desecration? Austria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Portugal, to name but a few, even SWEDEN for goodness' sake! Are you claiming that all of these countries are also "backwards"? International diplomacy, whether through bodies like the UN or the efforts of individual countries, attempts to influence the policies of states whose laws go against the common morality to such an extent that it endangers life. Beyond that, there's this marvellous concept called democracy, where the people who actually live in a country get to decide what is and isn't law. But, you know, if you think having some guy from Canada decide how the rest of the world should be run is a better system, I'd really love to hear the case for it. As an example, in my country, it is possible to be prosecuted for singing certain songs, which probably sounds backwards to someone who is not from here and is completely ignorant of the context those laws were made in. If you actually live here, you would know that sectarianism is a major social problem and certain songs are designed to or used to antagonise other religious groups to the point of violence, in a context where people are getting letter bombed and the like over what football team they're involved in where sports are seen as a representation of religious identity. But, ya know, let's have Jericho singing The Sash to piss off folk next time they come to Glasgow. As for Jericho, it clearly wasn't any attempt at any sort of civil disobedience. It was just plain ignorance. They didn't do the research (if it was even something booked by WWE, which I doubt based on the reporting - it sounds like something Jericho did off his own bat) and were lucky to not have greater sanctions for breaking the law. It was not a conscious attempt to "disobey an unjust law". Nor would "I didn't know this was illegal and it's a stupid law anyway so FREE SPEECH! CIVIL RIGHTS!" fly as a defence in a court anywhere in the world. Maybe he should have buggered a small child in the middle of the ring? I mean surely that would have got some great heat! Yeah it's illegal, but obviously they're totally backwards and don't understand free speech. (look, I can do ridiculous fallacies too!)  Really, if he wanted great heat, he should have just insulted a Brazilian football shirt! I doubt that's illegal (though hey, they're pretty keen on the game, you never know). |
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Post by Red Impact on May 25, 2012 17:16:12 GMT -5
Canada probably considers it protected speech, as the US does. Brazil probably doesn't, and I'd be surprised if it ever did. So it's not a case of them getting more PC, it's a case of them never thinking it was OK. The differences between Canada and Brazil are true, but don't dismiss the point that WWE has changed a lot since 1997. Today's WWE is more likely to suspend someone for that kind of incident. It's very possible that in 1997, WWE would not have taken the extra step of suspending Jericho indefinitely. WWE was not a publicly traded company then. WWE was way more under the radar in 1997, though things would change very quickly as WWE would become massively popular a few months later. The only international incident from that time period I can think of to compare is when Vader assaulted a television personality in Kuwait. If I recall, Vader was temporarily in some form of custody and ended up being fined. This incident was not covered on TMZ (which probably didn't exist) and did not get a lot coverage in any mainstream media. WWE did not impose any additional punishments on Vader. Hell, they included clips of the incident in his Titan Tron. I'm not saying WWE hasn't changed, I'm just saying that you can't claim that the law is the result of people becoming more PC or similar bulls*** unless you know that the law really is the result of it. I hate the overuse of the PC argument when it's trotted out randomly like here. But yes, the corporate culture has changed. But I'd argue that it's not because they were interested in getting more PC, but because it makes better business sense to come down on Jericho than it does to do something that could piss off the Brazilian government and make working in that market more difficult. In this day and age, it's more important to keep these markets as viable as possible. |
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Post by Richard on May 25, 2012 17:18:23 GMT -5
Alright, the political and religious activism ends now. You want to talk about Jericho being gone 30 days, fine. Want to talk about WWE being too reactionary or not, fine. Good heat or bad heat, fine. This wannabe activism isn't.
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