BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BigWill on Jun 7, 2012 11:54:02 GMT -5
Actually, as Jim Cornette would say, being a MANAGER requires talent. A valet? Not really. The ones you listed? I consider them managers. And I consider a valet to be a female manager. A job that requires talent just like being a wrestler or commentator. A valet and a female manager are not the same thing. Rosa Mendes is a valet. Vickie Guerrero is a manager. Two women doing very different jobs.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
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Post by Push R Truth on Jun 7, 2012 11:58:52 GMT -5
i sad kelly2 is gud akshelly is dolan deva plz
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 12:00:18 GMT -5
And I consider a valet to be a female manager. A job that requires talent just like being a wrestler or commentator. A valet and a female manager are not the same thing. Rosa Mendes is a valet. Vickie Guerrero is a manager. Two women doing very different jobs. They have the same job, to add to an act. The difference is that Vickie does just that while Rosa's presence does nothing besides give WWE a reason to keep her.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Jun 7, 2012 12:01:31 GMT -5
Yay!
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Abdullah on Jun 7, 2012 12:02:30 GMT -5
If the WWE had a proper Valet/Manager system, bot Kelly Kelly and Maryse would have worked. The problem is, the WWE wants them to be "wrestlers" for whatever reason, even when it's clear neither was that good at it. Being a valet requires talent. Sherri had that talent. Sunny had that talent. Maryse didn't, and Kelly never showed anything that suggested she did. You have to admit that regardless of talent, it's up to the writers at the end of the day. I'm not marking for Maryse. I just dislike this idea that if they wanted to, the talent could out there and release a series of wet farts. We all know how meticulous WWE is about what it scripts at least, about what it wants to get across. So... saying she needs 'talent' to be a valet kind of ignores the fact that WWE didn't actually do much with the DiBiase pairing. I mean , what do you think of Rosa Mendes? Is she good, is she bad? I'd say she's neither. She's there to look hot. She's never really done much to get heat for her 'boys', as they get called. It's about her, if anything. And that's what WWE gets across when she has promos on TV and Epico/Primo don't have a single one. That's what they get across when the announce team spends half the time talking about her. How could Maryse have been a better valet, how could Rosa be better, in the context of what the writers want? Which is mostly, again, just to look hot.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jun 7, 2012 12:10:14 GMT -5
A valet and a female manager are not the same thing. Rosa Mendes is a valet. Vickie Guerrero is a manager. Two women doing very different jobs. They have the same job, to add to an act. The difference is that Vickie does just that while Rosa's presence does nothing besides give WWE a reason to keep her. "To add to an act" is a little too vague of a job description. If that's all it took to be considered a manager, you could make an argument for every superstar/diva in the WWE. A manager hypes up the talent and is often used as a mouthpiece for those with bad mic skills. A valet just stands around at ringside and looks pretty. Valets are also pretty much all women, while a manager could be either male or female. Saying they're both the same is like saying in football a coach and a waterboy are the same thing because they both do their job on the football field.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 12:20:56 GMT -5
Being a valet requires talent. Sherri had that talent. Sunny had that talent. Maryse didn't, and Kelly never showed anything that suggested she did. You have to admit that regardless of talent, it's up to the writers at the end of the day. I'm not marking for Maryse. I just dislike this idea that if they wanted to, the talent could out there and release a series of wet farts. We all know how meticulous WWE is about what it scripts at least, about what it wants to get across. So... saying she needs 'talent' to be a valet kind of ignores the fact that WWE didn't actually do much with her pairing with DiBiase. I mean , what do you think of Rosa Mendes? Is she good, is she bad? I'd say she's neither. She's there to look hot. She's never really done much to get heat for her 'boys', as they get called. It's about her, if anything. And that's what WWE gets across when she has promos on TV and Epico/Primo don't have a single one. That's what they get across when the announce team spends half the time talking about her. How could Maryse have been a better valet, how could Rosa be better, in the context of what the writers want? Which is mostly just to look hot. Maryse was either clueless or specifically ordered to not do anything that might add to the match or help DiBiase, which I would assume was the whole point of their pairing. Rosa does the things she should. It just doesn't translate into the crowd caring anymore than they would without her. It's kind of like Laycool in that they did everything they should have, but the crowd was still dead for their matches.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Jun 7, 2012 12:25:33 GMT -5
I am not unhappy with this news. Get the models out.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Abdullah on Jun 7, 2012 12:30:30 GMT -5
You have to admit that regardless of talent, it's up to the writers at the end of the day. I'm not marking for Maryse. I just dislike this idea that if they wanted to, the talent could out there and release a series of wet farts. We all know how meticulous WWE is about what it scripts at least, about what it wants to get across. So... saying she needs 'talent' to be a valet kind of ignores the fact that WWE didn't actually do much with her pairing with DiBiase. I mean , what do you think of Rosa Mendes? Is she good, is she bad? I'd say she's neither. She's there to look hot. She's never really done much to get heat for her 'boys', as they get called. It's about her, if anything. And that's what WWE gets across when she has promos on TV and Epico/Primo don't have a single one. That's what they get across when the announce team spends half the time talking about her. How could Maryse have been a better valet, how could Rosa be better, in the context of what the writers want? Which is mostly just to look hot. Maryse was either clueless or specifically ordered to not do anything that might add to the match or help DiBiase, which I would assume was the whole point of their pairing. Rosa does the things she should. It just doesn't translate into the crowd caring anymore than they would without her. It's kind of like Laycool in that they did everything they should have, but the crowd was still dead for their matches. So. Just screaming, apparently not very well in Spanish, makes the cut as far as being good? Not a knock to her specifically - it's just an outdated mentality to think that something so minuscule would translate into anything. It's just scapegoating the workers for the writers failing and I don't agree with that. Hell, when Primo was given some freedom in a match on Superstars, the dude actually got a 'Primo sucks' chant going for a good while. I couldn't believe it. It begins and ends with the creative team and what they'll allow, I feel. As far as Maryse, a good portion of that angle was her not being impressed with DiBiase and being above him. I wouldn't be surprised if she was told to do nothing but roll her eyes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 12:39:44 GMT -5
They have the same job, to add to an act. The difference is that Vickie does just that while Rosa's presence does nothing besides give WWE a reason to keep her. "To add to an act" is a little too vague of a job description. If that's all it took to be considered a manager, you could make an argument for every superstar/diva in the WWE. A manager hypes up the talent and is often used as a mouthpiece for those with bad mic skills. A valet just stands around at ringside and looks pretty. Valets are also pretty much all women, while a manager could be either male or female. Saying they're both the same is like saying in football a coach and a waterboy are the same thing because they both do their job on the football field. A valet that's not going to make a bit of difference just stands around ringside looking pretty. An effective valet will do more than that. I have a hard time believing WWE would book a valet just to look pretty unless they don't care at all if the wrestler/valet pairing gets over or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 12:48:02 GMT -5
Maryse was either clueless or specifically ordered to not do anything that might add to the match or help DiBiase, which I would assume was the whole point of their pairing. Rosa does the things she should. It just doesn't translate into the crowd caring anymore than they would without her. It's kind of like Laycool in that they did everything they should have, but the crowd was still dead for their matches. So. Just screaming, apparently not very well in Spanish, makes the cut as far as being good? Not a knock to her specifically - it's just an outdated mentality to think that something so minuscule would translate into anything. It's just scapegoating the workers for the writers failing and I don't agree with that. Hell, when Primo was given some freedom in a match on Superstars, the dude actually got a 'Primo sucks' chant going for a good while. I couldn't believe it. It begins and ends with the creative team and what they'll allow, I feel. As far as Maryse, a good portion of that angle was her not being impressed with DiBiase and being above him. I wouldn't be surprised if she was told to do nothing but roll her eyes. Rosa isn't a good valet. I just meant I don't think it's due to any lack of effort on her part. She tries to add something, but she doesn't. With Maryse, it's bad either way. If it was a work, then WWE wanted them to fail. If she just legit didn't like being a valet, then she was unprofessional for outwardly showing it instead of trying to be good at it.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Jun 7, 2012 13:04:39 GMT -5
So. Just screaming, apparently not very well in Spanish, makes the cut as far as being good? Not a knock to her specifically - it's just an outdated mentality to think that something so minuscule would translate into anything. It's just scapegoating the workers for the writers failing and I don't agree with that. Hell, when Primo was given some freedom in a match on Superstars, the dude actually got a 'Primo sucks' chant going for a good while. I couldn't believe it. It begins and ends with the creative team and what they'll allow, I feel. As far as Maryse, a good portion of that angle was her not being impressed with DiBiase and being above him. I wouldn't be surprised if she was told to do nothing but roll her eyes. Rosa isn't a good valet. I just meant I don't think it's due to any lack of effort on her part. She tries to add something, but she doesn't. With Maryse, it's bad either way. If it was a work, then WWE wanted them to fail. If she just legit didn't like being a valet, then she was unprofessional for outwardly showing it instead of trying to be good at it. I don't think she was being unprofessional - her entire gimmick was based around being conceited so it's hard to say if she was. Could have been though. I just disagree with the idea that WWE couldn't possibly book something and have no expectations. That's the bulk of what they do and I'd say the DiBiase/Maryse angle is included in that.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on Jun 7, 2012 13:06:03 GMT -5
Actually, as Jim Cornette would say, being a MANAGER requires talent. A valet? Not really. The ones you listed? I consider them managers. And I consider a valet to be a female manager. A job that requires talent just like being a wrestler or commentator. Some chick who's just going to come out with the wrestler and sit at ringside doing nothing during his match shouldn't be under contract. Just hire a local model for one night every week like they did with Triple H back in 1996. I don't even have a valet listed as a female manager. A female manager is a female manager. A valet is a valet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 13:26:50 GMT -5
Rosa isn't a good valet. I just meant I don't think it's due to any lack of effort on her part. She tries to add something, but she doesn't. With Maryse, it's bad either way. If it was a work, then WWE wanted them to fail. If she just legit didn't like being a valet, then she was unprofessional for outwardly showing it instead of trying to be good at it. I don't think she was being unprofessional - her entire gimmick was based around being conceited so it's hard to say if she was. Could have been though. I just disagree with the idea that WWE couldn't possibly book something and have no expectations. That's the bulk of what they do and I'd say the DiBiase/Maryse angle is included in that. If Maryse was scripted to be indifferent, it added nothing and just made her look bad. Some of the most arrogant, conceited valets in wrestling history were also incredibly into their guys' matches. I find it hard to believe that WWE would be stupid enough to think that the thing that would help Ted DiBiase, a guy they supposedly really like, rise was to put Maryse with him and have her just stand there looking bored out of her skull.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 13:46:38 GMT -5
And I consider a valet to be a female manager. A job that requires talent just like being a wrestler or commentator. Some chick who's just going to come out with the wrestler and sit at ringside doing nothing during his match shouldn't be under contract. Just hire a local model for one night every week like they did with Triple H back in 1996. I don't even have a valet listed as a female manager. A female manager is a female manager. A valet is a valet. Rosa can be called a valet and Vickie can be called a manager all day long, but they still cheer on their guys, taunt the other guys, and occassionally interfere. The biggest differences between them are how much heat Vickie gets and how the announcers, specifically Jerry Lawler, talk about them. In terms of what they do at ringside, they're not much different.
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Dat Dude on Jun 7, 2012 14:13:43 GMT -5
Honestly, I can't hate the girl. I mean, on one hand, she has literally no talent. She developed into a passable wrestler, but never, ever anything more than passable. She has more or less no charisma, and though she developed as a talker to the point where she wasn't embarrassing herself, I honestly can't remember a single promo she did, other than knowing in a general sense that she was on occasion given a live microphone and forced to speak. And even in terms of looks (obviously her singular reason for being there), she was just an unusually attractive co-ed. I live right next to a large college campus, and I can say with complete honesty that I see girls as well built and just as pretty as KK on a daily basis (not saying that they're getting with me or anything, but I do see them). But, she was given an amazing opportunity at a ludicrously young age, and she took it, and she made more of it than she had any reasonable or logical right to. She never came across as feeling entitled, or ungrateful to be making good money and traveling the world when most of her peers were eating ramen in dorms and/or doing soul-smashing unskilled laboring. Did she deserve the opportunity? Of course not, but that's the company's fault, not hers. Kudos to her for greatly overachieving, and being smart enough to escape while she's young and not become Tammy Sytch/Missy Hyatt. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Abdullah on Jun 7, 2012 14:29:50 GMT -5
I don't think she was being unprofessional - her entire gimmick was based around being conceited so it's hard to say if she was. Could have been though. I just disagree with the idea that WWE couldn't possibly book something and have no expectations. That's the bulk of what they do and I'd say the DiBiase/Maryse angle is included in that. If Maryse was scripted to be indifferent, it added nothing and just made her look bad. Some of the most arrogant, conceited valets in wrestling history were also incredibly into their guys' matches. I find it hard to believe that WWE would be stupid enough to think that the thing that would help Ted DiBiase, a guy they supposedly really like, rise was to put Maryse with him and have her just stand there looking bored out of her skull. But the storyline was that she was bored with him though. If you watch DiBiase's match with Brodus on one NXT, that was the whole point - it was a progressive thing until she couldn't be bothered with him. It could have been be the real Maryse Ouellet coming out, but it was probably just a storyline thing. More than though, I think you're giving WWE too much to think they really cared about a midcard angle. Almost every interview with an ex-writer, an ex-wrestler, and the evidence on screen points to the opposite.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 14:50:07 GMT -5
If Maryse was scripted to be indifferent, it added nothing and just made her look bad. Some of the most arrogant, conceited valets in wrestling history were also incredibly into their guys' matches. I find it hard to believe that WWE would be stupid enough to think that the thing that would help Ted DiBiase, a guy they supposedly really like, rise was to put Maryse with him and have her just stand there looking bored out of her skull. But the storyline was that she was bored with him though. If you watch DiBiase's match with Brodus on one NXT, that was the whole point - it was a progressive thing until she couldn't be bothered with him. It could have been be the real Maryse Ouellet coming out, but it was probably just a storyline thing. More than though, I think you're giving WWE too much to think they really cared about a midcard angle. Almost every interview with an ex-writer, an ex-wrestler, and the evidence on screen points to the opposite. If Maryse's apathy was not legit but instead was a plan in the way you're described it, that means WWE did care, they were paying attention, and planned it that way. That's a frightening thought. It's like treating someone like crap in hopes you become friends.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
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Post by Abdullah on Jun 7, 2012 15:30:39 GMT -5
But the storyline was that she was bored with him though. If you watch DiBiase's match with Brodus on one NXT, that was the whole point - it was a progressive thing until she couldn't be bothered with him. It could have been be the real Maryse Ouellet coming out, but it was probably just a storyline thing. More than though, I think you're giving WWE too much to think they really cared about a midcard angle. Almost every interview with an ex-writer, an ex-wrestler, and the evidence on screen points to the opposite. If Maryse's apathy was not legit but instead was a plan in the way you're described it, that means WWE did care, they were paying attention, and planned it that way. That's a frightening thought. It's like treating someone like crap in hopes you become friends. They cared enough to start something, not enough to follow up. Literally. After teasing an abusive Ted, that won't nowhere. They didn't even break-up on screen, I believe. Follow up. One of WWE's biggest issues.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jun 7, 2012 21:04:57 GMT -5
In regards to the Rosa/Vickie comparison, I am definitely in the camp of Vickie being a useful manager and Rosa being random eye candy. Sometimes they'll put random eye candy with a guy in hopes that will help get him over, though it ends up being that they are outshined. The best example is Alicia Fox and DJ Gabriel.
With Rosa, it does seem like an excuse to use her with Primo and Epico. Primo and Epico are both incredibly talented so they'll probably stick around in WWE, especially with the depleted roster, be they job guys or top guys. Rosa though isn't, and she seems to be just shoved into the position of a valet to hopefully add to Primo and Epico. Rosa also seems to have even less of a role if they plan on doing something with them and A.W. Because he is actually a manager.
Gorgeous George had a valet, a male valet, who would come to the ring and disrobe him, powder his nose, etc. Ricardo would be a valet if he wasn't simply Alberto's ring announcer (though they had something on FCW where they said Ricardo was apart of a management company and was hired by Del Rio). Sensational Sherri and Sunny were managers. Melina was a valet for MNM. Natalya was a valet for the Hart Dynasty.
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