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Post by Red Impact on May 19, 2013 19:49:48 GMT -5
Thing is, I doubt he's performing in front of 3 distinct crowds Friday, Saturday, and Sunday every week all year long, and even if he has some 8x10s, I doubt they're selling enough at a high enough price to give him twice his booking price over the course of a weekend. I'm sure he got some boost by being in TNA (and I don't know if TNA still gets a cut of the booking fees like they used to, so that $200 may be even lower).
I really do think you're overestimating his earning power quite a bit, I don't think it's nearly as realistic as you think for him to be making that much money. He's not a big name, he's a low-carder who sometimes appears on the distant #2 wrestling promotion in the country, and I doubt someone who is sleeping in a car on his travel trips is just so horribly bad with money that he couldn't have saved enough for live-saving medical bills.
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Post by Rick Springfield's Heart on May 19, 2013 20:10:00 GMT -5
Zema Ion kind of sounds like an energy+booze drink.
that said,I hope he gets the money he needs from one place or another. TNA disappoint me here.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on May 19, 2013 20:13:14 GMT -5
Most 20 somethings could have 30k in the bank by their mid 20's here but they just don't save, As for indy guys, Someone said Ion makes 200 a night but if you figure he works a weekend of shows that's 600 bucks. He's probably going to walk away with 400 in merch over the weekend because he's a TV guy. The promoter usually covers travel and hotel so Zema is probably paying for food, gym and general travel costs. Throw in TNA money which is probably around the 200-300 range and it's not a bad living. Not a millionaire but most of that money would be tax free. ... Where is your logical basis for this? Your life experience, while certainly valid, does not necessarily replicate across everyone else's. The average mid-20s American, with college education, is SWIMMING in debt. The average college debt out of 4 year college in the U.S. would be in the $40,000 and up range. That isn't counting that he is a trained wrestler, so he had to pay for that as well. Entry level is a vague term, but an average entry level job in the U.S. depends on field/location. In most places that is $35,000 before taxes, this will be inflated for places like L.A., NYC, and other large cities. Assume that most 'living expenses' (rent/mortgage, food, car, utilities, phone) end up eating 60-70% of your take home, the remaining amount you will have to devote to paying down the Student Loans, and then you have your 'play' or 'savings' money. So the average 25 year old, who has been out of college 2-3 years will likely not have $10,000 in the bank, and really cannot accrue any real amount in the bank unless they have gotten rid of student debt. As all of those calculations assume there are no health issues or other emergencies. Now all of this are extraneous datapoints meant to examine the average, let's look at Zema Ion specifically. 1) He is a Journalism student, NOT a graduate, as such likely wont have anything beyond an unpaid internship. 2) Students and regular citizens do not have subsidized health coverage, so he is on the hook for all of it. 3) His primary source of income that is public knowledge is Professional Wrestling, of which he is an Independent Contractor, and is paid per appearance. This, along with merchandise sales is TAXABLE income. I don't understand where you got the information/understanding that pro-wrestling earnings aren't taxable, the Promoters have to report their earnings and payouts to talent, the talent will have to report their earnings as well. Further as independent contractors he has to cover all expenses: gyms, food, travel (again, I don't know the structure of the contracts, so they MIGHT cover the international flights, but who knows) And realistically his cut of Merch isn't going to be great. Do we know if TNA allows for talent to sell self-produced merch at their events? If they do not, then they will get a fractional amount of sales. Let's say Zema Ion does push $400, if his contract indicates 25%, then he gets $100 of that. But then, when is the merch paid out? Is it monthly? Per event? Assume monthly, and assume $200 per appearance. So we'll do 3 events a week, that's 12 for the month, totaling $2400, plus $400 for merch, at the 25% rate, so before taxes that is $2800. Well let's do taxes, assume 35%. So take home of that is now: $1820. And we'll be stingy and do 70% of his paychecks being eaten by expenses and such. So... $546. But here is where the math fails, he got sick. So during this he has been earning closer to $0. But he still will have other expenses, like rent, food, all that other stuff still happening while he had surgery and all that. So when he isn't bringing in money to mitigate a huge outbound expenditure then he drops sharply to the red. |
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on May 19, 2013 20:32:40 GMT -5
It's completely unreasonable to expect him to have 30k saved up at his age. Like, completely. I can't believe anyone would even suggest that. However, dude should have insurance. He'll get the money though, be it from fans, friends, or some benefit shows. I don't think it's TNA's responsibility that his appendix burst or whatever, any money they give him would be over and above what they should be expected. If I broke my leg on my way to work, my employer would not pay for it, and I wouldn't expect it. It doesn't matter that he's on tv. It's like people who go to college for an arts degree. If they create something, even though they worked really hard, they aren't entitled for people's money. They should have gotten a degree in something they could get a job in. The market is going to dictate if something is valuable enough to pay for. If they have a page to donate, but they aren't getting enough money, I guess they aren't doing a very good job. In the real world, that's when a company has to change or go under. But don't put that on the consumer, that's bogus. What I see happening is people like this like what they are doing, and get a small following, and think that entitles them to not have to work like most other people, and if they aren't making enough, it's a guilt trip. We'd all probably love to get paid for doing what we love to do in whatever niche it is, but it isn't always possible, and instead of guilting and complaining, they should suck it up like grown men/women and use their heads to figure out a better way to do it, or do something else. But, to sum it up- if his job ain't cutting the mustard, it's time to do something else. It's common sense. |
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SOR
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Post by SOR on May 19, 2013 22:11:59 GMT -5
I guess Ion's merch would come down to how much the show is drawing but I don't think it's that odd to suggest he might sell 10-15 8X10's a night considering he used to be TNA X-Division Champion. He really isn't booked though every night though and not everyone want's a Ion 8x10 though. He hasn't been on tv in almost two months and may not have even done shows. Also not all promoters pay for a wrestler's lodgings or travel or food. Most promoters will pay interstate travel that's apart of the deal for a lot of these guys as is a hotel. That's why most promoters skip on using "name" guys because it can get pretty pricey. I don't know how he does merch wise but Sonjay Dutt did pretty well over here in terms of merch and he's not a huge star either. Kizarny also did well and he'd be on the same level as Zema. Most 20 somethings could have 30k in the bank by their mid 20's here but they just don't save, As for indy guys, Someone said Ion makes 200 a night but if you figure he works a weekend of shows that's 600 bucks. He's probably going to walk away with 400 in merch over the weekend because he's a TV guy. The promoter usually covers travel and hotel so Zema is probably paying for food, gym and general travel costs. Throw in TNA money which is probably around the 200-300 range and it's not a bad living. Not a millionaire but most of that money would be tax free. ... Where is your logical basis for this? Your life experience, while certainly valid, does not necessarily replicate across everyone else's. The average mid-20s American, with college education, is SWIMMING in debt. The average college debt out of 4 year college in the U.S. would be in the $40,000 and up range. That isn't counting that he is a trained wrestler, so he had to pay for that as well. Entry level is a vague term, but an average entry level job in the U.S. depends on field/location. In most places that is $35,000 before taxes, this will be inflated for places like L.A., NYC, and other large cities. Assume that most 'living expenses' (rent/mortgage, food, car, utilities, phone) end up eating 60-70% of your take home, the remaining amount you will have to devote to paying down the Student Loans, and then you have your 'play' or 'savings' money. So the average 25 year old, who has been out of college 2-3 years will likely not have $10,000 in the bank, and really cannot accrue any real amount in the bank unless they have gotten rid of student debt. As all of those calculations assume there are no health issues or other emergencies. Now all of this are extraneous datapoints meant to examine the average, let's look at Zema Ion specifically. 1) He is a Journalism student, NOT a graduate, as such likely wont have anything beyond an unpaid internship. 2) Students and regular citizens do not have subsidized health coverage, so he is on the hook for all of it. 3) His primary source of income that is public knowledge is Professional Wrestling, of which he is an Independent Contractor, and is paid per appearance. This, along with merchandise sales is TAXABLE income. I don't understand where you got the information/understanding that pro-wrestling earnings aren't taxable, the Promoters have to report their earnings and payouts to talent, the talent will have to report their earnings as well. Further as independent contractors he has to cover all expenses: gyms, food, travel (again, I don't know the structure of the contracts, so they MIGHT cover the international flights, but who knows) And realistically his cut of Merch isn't going to be great. Do we know if TNA allows for talent to sell self-produced merch at their events? If they do not, then they will get a fractional amount of sales. Let's say Zema Ion does push $400, if his contract indicates 25%, then he gets $100 of that. But then, when is the merch paid out? Is it monthly? Per event? Assume monthly, and assume $200 per appearance. So we'll do 3 events a week, that's 12 for the month, totaling $2400, plus $400 for merch, at the 25% rate, so before taxes that is $2800. Well let's do taxes, assume 35%. So take home of that is now: $1820. And we'll be stingy and do 70% of his paychecks being eaten by expenses and such. So... $546. But here is where the math fails, he got sick. So during this he has been earning closer to $0. But he still will have other expenses, like rent, food, all that other stuff still happening while he had surgery and all that. So when he isn't bringing in money to mitigate a huge outbound expenditure then he drops sharply to the red. 1. Wikipedia states that he is a Journalism Major. Not a student but that doesn't really matter either way because nobody knows for sure if that is even true. 2. The fact he wrestles is public knowledge but not what he makes. It's illegal to lie but the IRS would never be able to prove it. Most indy guys get paid cash in hand they could claim they made 50 bucks working for an indy and really pocket 200 and a hundred in merch sales. Of course the promoters have to tell the IRS what they earned but again, most money for the event is cash they could simply lie and say they lost money. The IRS could never prove they were lying and if they somehow got tape of the event the promoter again could just say "All those people were let in for free" I don't encourage tax evasion but I strongly believe a lot of smaller indies pay nothing in the way of tax. Hell, A lot of them don't even have insurance. 3. TNA would allow self made merch for the guys working in the indies. Probably not on their shows though. I think the only income that would be taxed for Ion would be his TNA money and he's probably not making enough to be taxed that heavily. Once again not saying he's a millionaire or even wealthy but he would of been doing okay before the incident in my opinion. |
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Post by Dan Gerous on May 19, 2013 22:14:03 GMT -5
?WPDW Why did you quote me multiple times from different threads?
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on May 19, 2013 22:33:09 GMT -5
... Where is your logical basis for this? Your life experience, while certainly valid, does not necessarily replicate across everyone else's. The average mid-20s American, with college education, is SWIMMING in debt. The average college debt out of 4 year college in the U.S. would be in the $40,000 and up range. That isn't counting that he is a trained wrestler, so he had to pay for that as well. Entry level is a vague term, but an average entry level job in the U.S. depends on field/location. In most places that is $35,000 before taxes, this will be inflated for places like L.A., NYC, and other large cities. Assume that most 'living expenses' (rent/mortgage, food, car, utilities, phone) end up eating 60-70% of your take home, the remaining amount you will have to devote to paying down the Student Loans, and then you have your 'play' or 'savings' money. So the average 25 year old, who has been out of college 2-3 years will likely not have $10,000 in the bank, and really cannot accrue any real amount in the bank unless they have gotten rid of student debt. As all of those calculations assume there are no health issues or other emergencies. Now all of this are extraneous datapoints meant to examine the average, let's look at Zema Ion specifically. 1) He is a Journalism student, NOT a graduate, as such likely wont have anything beyond an unpaid internship. 2) Students and regular citizens do not have subsidized health coverage, so he is on the hook for all of it. 3) His primary source of income that is public knowledge is Professional Wrestling, of which he is an Independent Contractor, and is paid per appearance. This, along with merchandise sales is TAXABLE income. I don't understand where you got the information/understanding that pro-wrestling earnings aren't taxable, the Promoters have to report their earnings and payouts to talent, the talent will have to report their earnings as well. Further as independent contractors he has to cover all expenses: gyms, food, travel (again, I don't know the structure of the contracts, so they MIGHT cover the international flights, but who knows) And realistically his cut of Merch isn't going to be great. Do we know if TNA allows for talent to sell self-produced merch at their events? If they do not, then they will get a fractional amount of sales. Let's say Zema Ion does push $400, if his contract indicates 25%, then he gets $100 of that. But then, when is the merch paid out? Is it monthly? Per event? Assume monthly, and assume $200 per appearance. So we'll do 3 events a week, that's 12 for the month, totaling $2400, plus $400 for merch, at the 25% rate, so before taxes that is $2800. Well let's do taxes, assume 35%. So take home of that is now: $1820. And we'll be stingy and do 70% of his paychecks being eaten by expenses and such. So... $546. But here is where the math fails, he got sick. So during this he has been earning closer to $0. But he still will have other expenses, like rent, food, all that other stuff still happening while he had surgery and all that. So when he isn't bringing in money to mitigate a huge outbound expenditure then he drops sharply to the red. 1. Wikipedia states that he is a Journalism Major. Not a student but that doesn't really matter either way because nobody knows for sure if that is even true. 2. The fact he wrestles is public knowledge but not what he makes. It's illegal to lie but the IRS would never be able to prove it. Most indy guys get paid cash in hand they could claim they made 50 bucks working for an indy and really pocket 200 and a hundred in merch sales. Of course the promoters have to tell the IRS what they earned but again, most money for the event is cash they could simply lie and say they lost money. The IRS could never prove they were lying and if they somehow got tape of the event the promoter again could just say "All those people were let in for free" I don't encourage tax evasion but I strongly believe a lot of smaller indies pay nothing in the way of tax. Hell, A lot of them don't even have insurance. 3. TNA would allow self made merch for the guys working in the indies. Probably not on their shows though. I think the only income that would be taxed for Ion would be his TNA money and he's probably not making enough to be taxed that heavily. Once again not saying he's a millionaire or even wealthy but he would of been doing okay before the incident in my opinion. Alright sweetness, I see you volleyed back, so here is my response: 1. You are incorrect, what Wiki says is: In the United States the statement of currently being a Major in a field means you are CURRENTLY a student of the University under a specific degree program. And being that he is 26, and has been a pro-wrestler for awhile (I have been aware of his career existing for 5 years or so) that makes sense in terms of timeline. 2. The promoter WILL HAVE to report how much they pay out to their talent to the IRS, and as an Independent Contractor, other wrestlers have spoken on this, but here: www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-(Self-Employed)-or-Employee%3FAs can be laid out: pro-wrestlers are not employees, they are independent contractors, as such they are self-employed and have to be fill out taxes as such. Again the promoters are in a similar boat, and will be reporting what they pay to any wrestlers they use. So yes, the IRS and state governments will have records of what they are earning. Also, you are asserting that he, and by extension other Indie wrestlers are lying to the IRS. 3. You don't know this, unless you know the terms of the contracts. I would imagine if they allow him to sell his Indie merch at their shows they will want a cut. And since TNA gets a cut of any Indie shows he does apart from them (non-filmed) it can be assumed that they would ask for a cut of his Indie show merch sales as well. Provided he is allowed to still make and sell merchandise independently. So as an incorporated small business he would still be on the hook to report earnings accurately, and to pay taxes. If he doesn't make enough he will get ALL of his taxed income back. The cut off varies state to state, but for the federal level it is around $7000 and some change, per year. Generally less for State. So And if he is pulling in, at your estimates, $2800 per month, he is exceeding that cut off, and will have to pay all of his taxes. If he was wise he wouldn't be claiming any dependents, which would get him taxed at a higher rate, and will get a larger tax return for a single person. In this instance you are using your experience as a sample, with which to project a narrative into a situation that does not necessarily fit that frame of reference. As such your suppositions are not based in logic. |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2013 12:11:51 GMT -5
Not to be mean about this but isn't it a little embarrassing for Ion himself? I mean the dude is in his mid 20's you'd expect he had at least 30k in a rainy day fund considering he probably had a job before signing with TNA who probably pay him semi decently considering he works most shows not to mention the indy dates he receives. I think this is more of a case of "Adults should be more financially secure" rather than "TNA should pay the bills!" what you guys don't think about is if TNA pays this medical bill they need to pay every medical bill. Suddenly all these injuries start popping up and wrestlers could completely screw the system and fake injuries for financial benefit and con TNA out of thousands of dollars. Not to mention that TNA isn't even responsible for the injury why should they pay it? Because he works there? If I break my arm at home should my boss at the office pay my medical bills for me? Of course not. It's great his friends are helping but anyone who thinks TNA should pay this is being biased and silly. Not everybody has 30k just lying around. Assuming TNA pays him semi decently is a big leap to make, especially with all the stories out there of TNA talent not being paid hardly anything and Zema ain't exactly a big name. Yeah this is kind of weird to me. I'm in my early 20s with lots of friends in their mid 20s, and none of us have that much money lying around. With the job market the way it's been for the last several years a lot of my friends, even college graduates, are stuck being underemployed and working jobs that don't allow them to save that much. Since Ion just graduated in like the last year,and TNA is rumored to pay very poorly, idk why he would be expected to have that much saved. It's not like supplementing a crappy TNA income with a restaurant or retail job is going to allow someone to stockpile a bunch of money. I see nothing wrong with him asking for help. No one is obligated or forced to give him anything. |
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Post by salsashark on May 20, 2013 19:13:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but after Taylor Wilde admitted she was caught working at Sunglass Hut WHILE Knockouts champion, is anything a surprise? Well that was when TNA was running few House Shows and every show was out of Universal. These days I would think a TNA Wrestlers could survive on what TNA gives them considering TNA does at least 4 House Shows a month, 4 tapings and a PPV. It's notoriously difficult for pro wrestlers to get health insurance. There's probably more to it than "he just didn't want to bother." I'm not saying he should of had insurance I'm saying he should have 30k in the bank so that he doesn't have to come and ask the fans for money. He's been in the big time for 2 years and is apparently a Journalism major so the guy should be financially secure. It isn't TNA's fault that he isn't financially secure and can't afford medical bills. The post lives so high on some other plane of reality it's hilarious. Someone in their mid-20s should have 30K in the bank? What? Are you familiar with the American economy and how hard it is to get jobs right now not just for young people but for everyone? Are you aware of much money you would have to earn in a relatively short period of time to be in your mid-20s and have 30K stashed away? This is just so ludicrous and 1-percentery it boggles the mind. I don't know what industry you're in or what your financial background is, but I encourage you to read up on what millenials and the economy is going through. What makes this doubly hilarious for me is you saying that the guy should be financially secure if he's a journalism major. As a journalist myself, I can say that you're completely out of touch with today's journalism landscape if you're taking online or print (I don't think broadcast journalism would count here) if you expecting someone to have saved $30K (Hell even $15K or $10K) from journalism because: 1) It's 2013 and journalism is in the financial gutter; 2) The guy is in his mid-20s and unless he comes from an Ivy League school or created his own media empire, he will have a tough time finding any jobs that pay well; and 3) It's journalism. This is not an industry traditionally known for paying fat stacks anyway. As I'm so broke right now, reading your post and analysis of my industry makes me want to weep/laugh. |
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Post by usemeplease on May 20, 2013 19:34:33 GMT -5
SORPeople in their mid 20s in the US barely make 30k a year. The very few that make that coming out of college are either very lucky or well connected. Plus, Zema has been wrestling since the age of sixteen. Would not expect Zema to have 30k in saving lying around, especially if he attended college. The only way he could have escaped massive college debt if Zema had a scholarship. Assuming Zema didn't if he's being referred to as a Journalism Major at his current age. It's hard to screw the system if there is a working system in place. If a wrestler gets injured, have the doctor(s)/hospital submit their claims directly to the insurance company for payment, instead of said wrestler giving the bill to TNA management. With health insurance, even if Zema had it, there is no guarantee that his medical bill would be fully covered or he had the right "plan"to cover all his medical needs.
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Post by The Gambler Fan on May 21, 2013 12:18:46 GMT -5
Looking at how much money he was able to raise already, makes me proud to be a wrestling fan.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 12:39:10 GMT -5
Most people in their mid-20s, especially people who went to college, are more likely to have a spaceship in their garage than anything near $30k in savings.
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Post by CrazySting on May 21, 2013 16:44:57 GMT -5
Looking at how much money he was able to raise already, makes me proud to be a wrestling fan. You know, I think he would have gotten even more but most people are assuming TNA will be shamed into stepping in and taking care of it. Which, after four days, they still haven't. |
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Post by OGJB is Slender on May 21, 2013 17:16:44 GMT -5
Most promoters will pay interstate travel that's apart of the deal for a lot of these guys as is a hotel. No, they won't. Hell, the WWE doesn't even pay for every wrestler's travel & hotel. If they did, they'd be pissing money away like crazy. The big stars get that stuff comped. A guy on Zema Ion's level? Hardly. A great deal of wrestlers have to pay their own way to shows. |
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Post by ________ has left the building on May 21, 2013 22:08:16 GMT -5
Looking at how much money he was able to raise already, makes me proud to be a wrestling fan. You know, I think he would have gotten even more but most people are assuming TNA will be shamed into stepping in and taking care of it. Which, after four days, they still haven't. The only way TNA gets shamed nowadays is if someone contacts SPIKE management and/or TMZ. Then they care. |
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Talent Name
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway.
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Post by Talent Name on May 21, 2013 22:12:41 GMT -5
You know, I think he would have gotten even more but most people are assuming TNA will be shamed into stepping in and taking care of it. Which, after four days, they still haven't. The only way TNA gets shamed nowadays is if someone contacts SPIKE management and/or TMZ. Then they care. Does tweeting count because I just accidentally on purpose tweeted TMZ |
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Post by CrazySting on May 21, 2013 22:36:21 GMT -5
I sent it to Deadspin. No clue if they'll pick it up.
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Post by CrazySting on May 25, 2013 20:05:40 GMT -5
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