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Post by botchingitup on Aug 30, 2013 3:01:16 GMT -5
So...basically a repeat of the last time they had a match at Wrestlemania? No, you're WRONG. You can make it completely fresh. For example, then HHH would come out and talk about how Cena can't wrestle. And then Cena would talk about while he has a limited skill set, no one can deny his heart! And then HHH would laugh about how his fans are all children. And then Cena could---wait, crap. More on topic, can someone explain to me why the hell John Cena needs an "unambiguously heroic" story to maintain his "legacy?" For starters, crowd reaction should dictate a lot of the direction story should go in if it's that consistent and that powerful. The reality is that adhering to something just because it's some kind of 90s cartoon ideal doesn't change the fact that people have their own opinions and beliefs and they should have some amount of influence. This is not me saying "John Cena should turn heel" or anything, but I am saying that the division and the constant need to remind everyone that Cena gets mixed reactions exists for a god damn reason. He does. He will. He likely will for a very, very long time, and that's not going to change. Why should Cena get protection from this when everyone else who has ever received negative reactions has eaten it and had the announcers join in jeering the crap out of them? Whether I think Cena should turn heel or not? The reality is that anyone else would've been turned ages ago. So to break down the point in plain English: Radio Clash wants the WWE to shill John Cena yet again in a high profile angle he doesn't need to be in in an attempt to get people to cheer him in order to "improve his legacy." Because it's worked so well before. (Protip: When little Hall of Fame packages air for heels at their coronations? No one plays the crowd reactions they got in their careers unless it's deliberate. Instead it's edited to make them look as good as possible regardless. Cena's "legacy" has nothing to worry about. But for the present, people will respect John Cena infinitely more when he stops being Poochie the Radical Dog derailing us from the fireworks factory. Is that his fault? No. Cena is a hell of a performer, in ring and out, and I'm sure he has a tremendous range. But people will still use his name rather than complain about "the WWE" because one needs to be specific about these things.)
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 30, 2013 5:36:19 GMT -5
So...basically a repeat of the last time they had a match at Wrestlemania? No, you're WRONG. You can make it completely fresh. For example, then HHH would come out and talk about how Cena can't wrestle. And then Cena would talk about while he has a limited skill set, no one can deny his heart! And then HHH would laugh about how his fans are all children. And then Cena could---wait, crap. More on topic, can someone explain to me why the hell John Cena needs an "unambiguously heroic" story to maintain his "legacy?" For starters, crowd reaction should dictate a lot of the direction story should go in if it's that consistent and that powerful. The reality is that adhering to something just because it's some kind of 90s cartoon ideal doesn't change the fact that people have their own opinions and beliefs and they should have some amount of influence. This is not me saying "John Cena should turn heel" or anything, but I am saying that the division and the constant need to remind everyone that Cena gets mixed reactions exists for a god damn reason. He does. He will. He likely will for a very, very long time, and that's not going to change. Why should Cena get protection from this when everyone else who has ever received negative reactions has eaten it and had the announcers join in jeering the crap out of them? Whether I think Cena should turn heel or not? The reality is that anyone else would've been turned ages ago. So to break down the point in plain English: Radio Clash wants the WWE to shill John Cena yet again in a high profile angle he doesn't need to be in in an attempt to get people to cheer him in order to "improve his legacy." Because it's worked so well before. (Protip: When little Hall of Fame packages air for heels at their coronations? No one plays the crowd reactions they got in their careers unless it's deliberate. Instead it's edited to make them look as good as possible regardless. Cena's "legacy" has nothing to worry about. But for the present, people will respect John Cena infinitely more when he stops being Poochie the Radical Dog derailing us from the fireworks factory. Is that his fault? No. Cena is a hell of a performer, in ring and out, and I'm sure he has a tremendous range. But people will still use his name rather than complain about "the WWE" because one needs to be specific about these things.) the problem with altering Cena's dynamic is the way fans react these days and for years past the most likely alteration would be the pitch of "Let's go Cena/Cena Sucks" because male fans would probably end up cheering the new heel character, they end up cheering every heel character who is over at all it seems, and the women and kids would end up booing him for changing. And it's not a case of seeing Cena as being shilled. He is a performer who is going to be paid, therefore he should be in an angle and probably a big one. The biggest angle going is the Corporation thing, a group that attacks people en masse and Cena's character is consitently someone who doens't like that sort of stuff. Frankly I'm sick of no one running in to make saves these days and it's time to change that anyway
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Post by botchingitup on Aug 30, 2013 6:23:17 GMT -5
I'm not saying I'm against his participation. The Corporation angle should be bigger than Bryan, frankly, and should be a "battle" fought on multiple fronts by multiple people. I miss large stories like that. I'm saying the participation existing entirely to improve his "legacy" is freaking ridiculous in concept, and he shouldn't derail Bryan as the primary lead at the front of it. As far as no one making a save, someone should DEFINITELY do a run-in save long, long before Cena returns, so that should solve it for you. This is a completely ridiculous generalization and I'm sick of it. Everyone is booing the Corporation, including Triple H, who has a legacy of being a badass legend even among some of the smarkier types, despite what you see here. Bryan doesn't fit the archetypal anti-hero at all (in the early-90s swearing/Batman mold, anyway) - he's a traditionally pretty nice guy and a straight up face, and yet he's very much over with that same population. It's true that older viewers commonly get behind heels and go against faces, but it's not for the reasons of alignment, it's for the reasons of being desperate for something semi-fresh.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Aug 30, 2013 13:08:07 GMT -5
Radio Clash playing up Cena and trying to turn him into the main hero of the story? Well I never! I didn't even mind all that much until you spoke of making Bryan his "Zack Ryder-like buddy." Even if not deliberate, if there's even the faintest chance, it shouldn't happen. This should not be Cena's story. Period. Say whatever you want about kayfabe, but one cannot shake that Cena is exactly the corporate face that the company wants in kayfabe. His rebellion feels if nothing else like an intent on the part of the non-kayfabe version of the same company acting as the villains to ploy people into continuing liking Cena against all odds. John Cena's schtick is that he bleeds and breathes WWE. It's who he is. What that means is literally anyone's guess. Does he like management? No. He hates Vince McMahon because it will get him the greatest amount of crowd support and it's scientifically manipulated to work that way. Does it mean he likes fans? Well sure. But that can mean pretty much any kind of wrestling fan, as he's an entertainer. It's not exclusive to the WWE other than it's the WWE that employs him. So now that the curtain is drawn back and we see that the WWE is literally, in story, consisting of wrestlers who are manipulated at every last turn by the evil management that has an iron grip on every facet of what it does, why the hell does John Cena live and breathe WWE? World Wrestling Entertainment is full of evil overlords. It shouldn't make any more sense for it to be the same Cena anymore as it is. Do a story based around that hit to his self-concept. That would actually be interesting. Don't make him the protagonist. Don't connect him to Bryan anymore than you'd connect anyone else fighting the regime. Give him his own time. Can Cena participate and stay face? Sure. Should he be the primary face? No. Should he be a mentor to Bryan who knows more than he does? No. Oh no, I don't think Cena should be the protagonist in this angle either. But if the regime is still intact by January, not having him help Bryan would be very bizarre given his character up until this point. And yeah, it would make perfect sense for him to be a mentor to Bryan given he's four years older and has had to deal with authority figures targeting him in the past. My main point is that it's perfectly possible for Cena to join the fight against the Corporation without Bryan losing any thunder, especially given that Bryan's already bested Cena one-on-one. That's not to say WWE couldn't do something really stupid down the road (say, Cena beating Orton for the belt), but Cena merely assisting Bryan en route to Bryan winning back the title would not automatically ruin the angle. I only mentioned the scenario of Bryan as Cena's little buddy in the context that it occuring would be impossible, as Ryder never pinned Cena clean as a sheet. For that matter, Savage never got to look like Hulk's equal before Hulk helped him at WMIV, which makes Bryan's current position look somehow even less fragile.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 30, 2013 13:13:50 GMT -5
This storyline will have to involve Cena at some point, and I think it should.
The Corporation should be expansive in how they abuse their power. Not only targeting DB, but also Punk, AJ, Ziggler, Usos, PTP, Big Show etc...on a regular basis in favour of their preferred performers.
This will lead to a widespread rebels vs corporatists feud, where practically everyone in the WWE takes a side, giving them all something useful to do, except for Ryback because he's crap
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Post by "American Nightmare" B.B. Bart on Aug 30, 2013 23:01:55 GMT -5
This storyline will have to involve Cena at some point, and I think it should. The Corporation should be expansive in how they abuse their power. Not only targeting DB, but also Punk, AJ, Ziggler, Usos, PTP, Big Show etc...on a regular basis in favour of their preferred performers. This will lead to a widespread rebels vs corporatists feud, where practically everyone in the WWE takes a side, giving them all something useful to do, except for Ryback because he's crap I honestly can't see Cena taking a backseat in this angle once he's cleared to return. Being "Mr. WWE", it's an inevitability that he'll get involved in a potential "war" that encompasses the entire company. He's going to have make his presence known. Either bring down the Facgime that threatens to destroy WWE with their corporate idiocy, or side with the establishment.
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