amaron
Samurai Cop
I yam what I yam.
Posts: 2,212
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Post by amaron on Sept 13, 2013 12:52:29 GMT -5
I think the first line is what rubs a lot of people the wrong way. It has a somewhat condescending tone linking fans' like of AJ to having a crush on her. I like Meltzer. He's a good guy and he's been very important in his field for decades now. His problem, in my eyes, is that he can't separate his journalism from his op-ed pieces. That and he has never invested in an editor for his work. Sounds like one thing that has been irritating me for years: musicians littering their concerts with political drivel.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 13:01:46 GMT -5
What I find interesting is that some people have commented that AJ has risen above the divas division, and therefore if you're a good worker you can reach higher levels than just the divas division - but when you really look into the history of the WWE, they've only really pushed one woman at a time outside of the division. And instead of using that one woman to make the divas division look better, they've actually done the complete opposite.
For example, when Lita was getting pushed after her heel turn in 2005, she joined up with Edge and immediately stopped wresting. It wasn't until over a year later that the WWE thought to actually have her 'lower' herself to wrestle against the other women on the roster. So even though Mickie and Trish were fighting for the title, Lita was actually the most pushed woman on the show. When Trish turned heel at Wrestlemania 20, she went months without competing in the women's division. One of the best examples is in 2000 when Stephanie McMahon won the women's title and then held it for over three months without defending it, making the other women on the roster (e.g. Ivory, Jacqueline, Miss Kitty) look completely irrelevant. The second Stephanie won the title, every woman wrestler except Lita was taken off TV because they had nothing for them.
Then of course you had AJ last year, who was so far and beyond every other women in the company that she didn't wrestle for months and didn't even appear in one segment with the divas champion/s at the time (Layla, then Eve). When a woman gets pushed above the division, people think that it elevates the women's division, but the truth is that it elevates just that one person whilst every other woman is made to look more irrelevant because of it.
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Post by bootytea on Sept 13, 2013 13:10:45 GMT -5
If AJ Lee was given the title during its heydays, the tattoo would not be as silly
Her being champion is a bit of a joke considering how frail she looks and the fact that there are skilled workers such as Natalya and Naomi who are stuck doing stupid things because they do not fit the WWE's perception of beauty.
AJ Lee is the biggest reason I stopped watching WWE. That stupid scandal and her being shoved into the main event, pun intended, turned me off watching.
The less AJ, the better.
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Post by Clueless Steve on Sept 13, 2013 14:47:39 GMT -5
skilled workers such as Natalya and Cameron... ![](http://i41.tinypic.com/t7lhmg.jpg)
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Post by bootytea on Sept 13, 2013 14:51:03 GMT -5
skilled workers such as Natalya and Cameron... ![](http://i41.tinypic.com/t7lhmg.jpg) That is hilarious, I meant Naomi. What an epic mistake!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 15:05:24 GMT -5
If AJ Lee was given the title during its heydays, the tattoo would not be as silly Her being champion is a bit of a joke considering how frail she looks and the fact that there are skilled workers such as Natalya and Naomi who are stuck doing stupid things because they do not fit the WWE's perception of beauty. AJ Lee is the biggest reason I stopped watching WWE. That stupid scandal and her being shoved into the main event, pun intended, turned me off watching. The less AJ, the better. Yeah I wish WWE was more like in 00's when guys like Malenko and Noble held the World titles for years because they were great workers. Can't believe that isn't the case anymore in the legitimate world of Pro-wrestling. If this status quo continues, people might stop watching wrestling because it might come off as, I don't know sports entertainment. Yuck. I pray to gods that Tyson Kidd wins the world title again and not that jabroni Randy Orton. All that new age attention to characters and storylines, what has happened of our sport.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Sept 13, 2013 15:48:24 GMT -5
That is hilarious, I meant Naomi. What an epic mistake! Again, Ariane not Cameron.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 13, 2013 16:23:42 GMT -5
I think a tat is a bit excessive, but that's just a personal feeling. I do have a quesiton, and maybe it's already been asked, but what IS the proper level of "passion for dis business"?
If you get excited about holding a title, you're a "belt mark", but if you're a guy who says "I want to be a solid, safe worker who does my job exceptionally well and I don't give a damn about titles" then you don't have enough "passion".
Where is the middle ground, and I really wish someone in t he industry would explain it. Is it ok to have actual human emotions if you clear them ahead of time with everyone?
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 13, 2013 17:03:29 GMT -5
I think a tat is a bit excessive, but that's just a personal feeling. I do have a quesiton, and maybe it's already been asked, but what IS the proper level of "passion for dis business"? If you get excited about holding a title, you're a "belt mark", but if you're a guy who says "I want to be a solid, safe worker who does my job exceptionally well and I don't give a damn about titles" then you don't have enough "passion". Where is the middle ground, and I really wish someone in t he industry would explain it. Is it ok to have actual human emotions if you clear them ahead of time with everyone? The sad thing is, most of it is just crap. If Vince (or whomever) takes a liking to a guy, he won't give a crap what the guy's "love for THIS BUSINESS" is like. People have brought up names like Hogan, Nash, Michaels, and Lesnar in this thread, and all four of them were, at one point or another, guys that Vince put his entire company behind. If Vince or whomever is in charge feels he can make money off a guy, he'll put the entirety of the WWE machine to work to push the guy to the moon, even to the point that he could risk his entire company should the guy leave (e.g. Hogan's departures in the early 90's hurt business, Nash started the nWo, Lesnar bailed during his prime, Michaels always threatening walking to WCW, etc.). Then look at the years and years of Vince going "hoss chasing" trying to find big guys who then used WWE as a springboard to get into movies or something. It's all the same: money is the bottom line, end of story. And yet, what do we constantly hear rumblings of whenever certain guys aren't getting really big pushes despite having tons of talent and ability? "Oh, he doesn't pester Vince enough, he's too quiet, Vince says he doesn't have any passion, he shouldn't be content being a midcard title-holder, if he really cared he's show how badly he wants to be champ", blah blah blah blah blah.It's all nonsense, and again, it's an indictment on the mindset of those who tend to be in charge in the industry. Whether you're "passionate" or not doesn't matter, because it all comes down to popularity contests and how much they figure you'll draw.
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Post by misconduct was wrong on Sept 13, 2013 18:48:48 GMT -5
So AJ set a life goal that a journalist has declared is misguided. She can set anything she wants as her benchmark for success and celebrate it any way she chooses with no judgment from me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 20:25:57 GMT -5
I think a tat is a bit excessive, but that's just a personal feeling. I do have a quesiton, and maybe it's already been asked, but what IS the proper level of "passion for dis business"? If you get excited about holding a title, you're a "belt mark", but if you're a guy who says "I want to be a solid, safe worker who does my job exceptionally well and I don't give a damn about titles" then you don't have enough "passion". Where is the middle ground, and I really wish someone in t he industry would explain it. Is it ok to have actual human emotions if you clear them ahead of time with everyone? A middle ground between a mark (Bret Hart) and someone who doesn't care (Brock Lesnar)? I'd say The Rock is probably the best example. He clearly cares about the business but left at his peak to pursue something else and when active he didn't seem to put much value in winning the title or jobbing, so his priorities were pretty level headed from a business standpoint. Again, it's all up to interpretation though, and I'm not in the industry so this is just a guess on my part.
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Cry Baby
Bubba Ho-Tep
"I got all the numbers!"
Posts: 646
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Post by Cry Baby on Sept 13, 2013 21:09:31 GMT -5
When it comes to the Diva's title - it may be viewed as an undercard title, nothing compared to the WWE Title or even the WHC, but it's still the only title for women in the WWE. The guys have six title positions that they can aim for and achieve, whereas the women have only one. One freakin' title.
So if you're a girl or a young woman watching the WWE and wanting to become a wrestler, the dream is to become Diva's champion, right? Just like for guys it would be to become WWE Champion? I seriously don't get why marking out for the Diva's title is seen as any less than the WWE Championship.
I agree with what many have said in this thread about the WWE being capable of only pushing one female at a time, and putting them ahead on the Diva's title - like AJ last year. I just wish they took female wrestlers seriously. If they're trying to attract a new audience of female viewers, as shown by Total Divas, maybe try devoting a little more time and effort and care to the women on your show at the same time. It doesn't matter if you're watching KUWTK, Ellen or Newsnight, most women are very aware of how their sex is represented and portrayed and do genuinely take offence to little things like that.
The majority of women don't watch wrestling just to drool over Cena or Orton. It'd be nice to have female wrestlers to cheer. My sister would love a female wrestler her daughter could get just as caught up in as me and her did over Lita and Trish.
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Post by bootytea on Sept 13, 2013 21:37:44 GMT -5
If AJ Lee was given the title during its heydays, the tattoo would not be as silly Her being champion is a bit of a joke considering how frail she looks and the fact that there are skilled workers such as Natalya and Naomi who are stuck doing stupid things because they do not fit the WWE's perception of beauty. AJ Lee is the biggest reason I stopped watching WWE. That stupid scandal and her being shoved into the main event, pun intended, turned me off watching. The less AJ, the better. Yeah I wish WWE was more like in 00's when guys like Malenko and Noble held the World titles for years because they were great workers. Can't believe that isn't the case anymore in the legitimate world of Pro-wrestling. If this status quo continues, people might stop watching wrestling because it might come off as, I don't know sports entertainment. Yuck. I pray to gods that Tyson Kidd wins the world title again and not that jabroni Randy Orton. All that new age attention to characters and storylines, what has happened of our sport. I have no idea how your sarcasm relates to my post at all. Those guys you mentioned did not get those titles because they are smaller and do not have enough to justify a reign, which only further proves my point. AJ Lee is an average worker with decent skills allround that is being put in an angle that would be better suited by people who would make that role more believable and less grating. If you can explain how your post has anything to do with what I wrote, I would love to know!
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,609
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Post by trollrogue on Sept 14, 2013 6:17:09 GMT -5
Meltzer is a moron but what else is new.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 14, 2013 10:09:22 GMT -5
When it comes to the Diva's title - it may be viewed as an undercard title, nothing compared to the WWE Title or even the WHC, but it's still the only title for women in the WWE. The guys have six title positions that they can aim for and achieve, whereas the women have only one. One freakin' title. So if you're a girl or a young woman watching the WWE and wanting to become a wrestler, the dream is to become Diva's champion, right? Just like for guys it would be to become WWE Champion? I seriously don't get why marking out for the Diva's title is seen as any less than the WWE Championship. I agree with what many have said in this thread about the WWE being capable of only pushing one female at a time, and putting them ahead on the Diva's title - like AJ last year. I just wish they took female wrestlers seriously. If they're trying to attract a new audience of female viewers, as shown by Total Divas, maybe try devoting a little more time and effort and care to the women on your show at the same time. It doesn't matter if you're watching KUWTK, Ellen or Newsnight, most women are very aware of how their sex is represented and portrayed and do genuinely take offence to little things like that. The majority of women don't watch wrestling just to drool over Cena or Orton. It'd be nice to have female wrestlers to cheer. My sister would love a female wrestler her daughter could get just as caught up in as me and her did over Lita and Trish. it'd also help if the women they were promoting were actually likeable. I don't think anyone watches Total Divas because they think the Bella twins are awesome.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 14, 2013 10:15:39 GMT -5
It never really had a heyday.
Natalya is stuck doing silly things because she seems to have little or no personality. Naomi is.....Naomi. A dancer. That's all. That's her niche. She should stick with it. As for AJ being frail, it doesn't apply. She's got a muscular physique. She's just not Chyna-esque freakish. She's a perfectly capable worker. Her selling is as good as Ziggler's
Only in the sense of not overexposing her. Putting her in the Punk/Bryan feud added a different dimension to it, and allowed both performers to show some depth beyond merely "I want to beat you" or "I'm the best" (which made Punk's character so dull during his title reign). She's the most capable and over Diva they've had in years. It makes sense to give her a sustained push.
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Post by Bootista on Sept 14, 2013 10:20:15 GMT -5
Why should Naomi stick with Dancing when She's arguably one of the most athletic divas on the roster?
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 14, 2013 10:28:10 GMT -5
Why should Naomi stick with Dancing when She's arguably one of the most athletic divas on the roster? Because she has more of a purpose as a Funkette. She can wrestle occasionally in tag matches with the other one, but I just don't see her as a regular singles title contender. She's got a gimmick that works (for now at least). No need to change it, until Brodus is released.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Sept 14, 2013 10:46:05 GMT -5
Why should Naomi stick with Dancing when She's arguably one of the most athletic divas on the roster? Because she has more of a purpose as a Funkette. She can wrestle occasionally in tag matches with the other one, but I just don't see her as a regular singles title contender. She's got a gimmick that works (for now at least). No need to change it, until Brodus is released. There is absolutely no reason the most athletic diva on the roster should be relegated to dancing valet. Naomi was putting on better matches than divas on the main roster her first year in FCW. With little over a year of actual wrestling under her belt entering NXT 3, Naomi was about on par with AJ who had years of experience on the independent circuit. Waiting until Brodus Clay is released (which may not happen for years down the line) to actually use Naomi's full potential would be a serious ball drop. Also, the "other one" is named Cameron.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 14, 2013 11:01:59 GMT -5
Because she has more of a purpose as a Funkette. She can wrestle occasionally in tag matches with the other one, but I just don't see her as a regular singles title contender. She's got a gimmick that works (for now at least). No need to change it, until Brodus is released. There is absolutely no reason the most athletic diva on the roster should be relegated to dancing valet. Naomi was putting on better matches than divas on the main roster her first year in FCW. With little over a year of actual wrestling under her belt entering NXT 3, Naomi was about on par with AJ who had years of experience on the independent circuit. Waiting until Brodus Clay is released (which may not happen for years down the line) to actually use Naomi's full potential would be a serious ball drop. Also, the "other one" is named Cameron. Her full potential can be explored later. For now, she's best doing what she's doing. Occasional wrestler, more frequent dancer. If they pushed her as a rival to AJ now, AJ would piss on her, especially in terms of mic work.
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