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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 23:01:51 GMT -5
It's like they know that they can't lean on him anymore, so they're stepping their game up creatively and giving a lot of different people time to shine. This is the best the alignments have been in a long time, none of the faces are getting substantial boos, and none of the heels are getting heavily cheered. I can't help but think if Cena was involved in this, that split crowd dynamic would be mucking it up. I love Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels, but their absence let the product breathe and evolve, and this may just be a similar situation.
Bottom line, I love how things are going and really hope things don't change when Cena comes back.
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Post by BorneAgain on Sept 16, 2013 23:03:50 GMT -5
The big thing is that its like they've re-learned how to actually build sympathy on the babyfaces and put the odds against them, instead of the faux-odds they do with Cena all the time.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Sept 16, 2013 23:06:32 GMT -5
Well, they DID fire Gewirtz. And supposedly started hiring writers who are fans of the product. (Like Dave Kreizman, whom I suspect may not have left after SummerSlam after all.)
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Post by "American Nightmare" B.B. Bart on Sept 16, 2013 23:09:36 GMT -5
We had Raw end with the fans going nuts for non-main eventers as if they were top guys. They must be doing something right with the booking.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 16, 2013 23:09:54 GMT -5
It's always been beneficial long term for over-pushed top acts to disappear for awhile, thus forcing Vince's hand to stop just going to the same well over and over and develop new top acts instead. We saw it in '93 when Hogan left. We saw it again in '98 with Stone Ciold after Bret & HBK were history. And again in '99 when Austin went down and Rock and HHH stood up. And now we're seeing it with Bryan in Cena's (much needed) absence.
The company only ever seems to grow or evolve when given no other option. Sometimes it works, (most times), sometimes it doesn't. But there is no growth in backing the same horse for eternity. Having all your eggs in just one basket never lasts forever.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 16, 2013 23:21:32 GMT -5
I can understand fans being happy that Cena's absence is allowing them to use different story dynamics. But if the sentiment is "ding dong the witch is dead till January", then I couldn't disagree more. His omnipresent dominance is one thing, but an able Cena is not something you want to willingly pass up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 23:25:22 GMT -5
I can understand fans being happy that Cena's absence is allowing them to use different story dynamics. But if the sentiment is "ding dong the witch is dead till January", then I couldn't disagree more. His omnipresent dominance is one thing, but an able Cena is not something you want to willingly pass up. Ehhhhhhhhhhh... I wanna agree with you but...I am so feeling the "**** John Cena" vibe. I'd be fine if he never came back to a wrestling ring again, but since that ain't gonna happen... |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 16, 2013 23:32:03 GMT -5
I can understand fans being happy that Cena's absence is allowing them to use different story dynamics. But if the sentiment is "ding dong the witch is dead till January", then I couldn't disagree more. His omnipresent dominance is one thing, but an able Cena is not something you want to willingly pass up. Ehhhhhhhhhhh... I wanna agree with you but...I am so feeling the "**** John Cena" vibe. I'd be fine if he never came back to a wrestling ring again, but since that ain't gonna happen... So you'd be happy if one of the best wrestlers and talkers in the industry never appeared in a ring again? Not my view, but to each their own. |
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Mista T
Unicron
THAT'S HARDCORE!!!1
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Post by Mista T on Sept 16, 2013 23:34:15 GMT -5
I have never been a huge Cena hater but I agree the whole product feels fresh and interesting lately in Cena's absence...now I'll have to see what happens when he returns.
It's almost like when a superstar on a Sports team goes down with an injury and then all of a sudden the team heats up and goes on a winning streak without the star...
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Post by BorneAgain on Sept 16, 2013 23:34:40 GMT -5
If we can bring Cena's ring work back without much of Cena's booking that'd be ideal.
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Jonathan Michaels
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Here since TNA was still kinda okay
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Sept 16, 2013 23:37:37 GMT -5
Have you noticed how they rarely bring him up?
I mean, they mention him more than Sheamus, who at this point may as well have been a figment of our imaginations.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Sept 16, 2013 23:47:39 GMT -5
So I was just thinking about how much I enjoy the current big storyline in WWE, even though I'm not a fan of Daniel Bryan at all (nor of Orton/Triple H, so it's not about getting a vicarious thrill out of seeing Bryan getting the crap beaten out of him either), and I realized it has a lot to do with what a breath of fresh air it feels like to have this big Cena-less vacuum at the top of the card, in spite of the fact that I'd typically rather watch Cena than any of these guys. I think it's because this situation actually reminds me of the New Generation, the pro wrestling era I look back on with the most nostalgic fondness, where there was this rotating annual cast of top babyfaces. Luger in '93, Bret in '94, Diesel in '95, Shawn in '96, a clusterf*** in '97, finally stabilizing with Austin in '98... it had this fun feel of progression, because you'd see guys rising and falling through the ranks relatively quickly. Looking back on it, I know the main reason for it was that no one between Hogan and Stone Cold was successful enough to really be the company figurehead that Vince was looking for, and I'll assume it's better for business when there's a massively popular guy on top, but I still missed the format in the modern era. It meant you could enjoy it even when you got bland losers like Bret Hart and now Daniel Bryan as the top faces, because everything felt like it was in a permanent state of flux and you could expect new developments soon. So even though I know this is only a temporary stretch until Cena comes back from surgery, and even though it's built around a bunch of guys who suck, this is still a great angle that I'm having a great time watching. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 16, 2013 23:49:03 GMT -5
One problem that I'm seeing is that not everyone is getting the chance to step up. Cena's absence should cause a trickle down effect and everyone should be bumped up a level to the point where we're seeing the likes of Yoshi, Hawkins, and Riley wrestling on screen a bit more often, even on just the C-shows. But instead they're stretching out the screen time of everyone who was getting featured anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 23:54:33 GMT -5
I can understand fans being happy that Cena's absence is allowing them to use different story dynamics. But if the sentiment is "ding dong the witch is dead till January", then I couldn't disagree more. His omnipresent dominance is one thing, but an able Cena is not something you want to willingly pass up. Unfortunately, it sort of is a "ding dong the witch is dead" feeling. But it's really not him, it's that he's become so hard to book effectively. When he gets beat up people cheer, when he overcomes the heels people yawn or boo (which is worse?), and in my view it really hurts the storytelling, especially the catharsis factor that comes with seeing the good guy prevail. He's had such a long, and frankly weird run at the top that it's a relief to see the product back to normal in a way. Pro wrestling is a weird animal in that it's scripted but there's a live crowd reacting immediately to everything that's happening, and it can really screw with things if that crowd is reacting in a way that contradicts the story being told. It can make for a novel atmosphere, but that's been done to death over the years out of necessity. The only way they've been able to figure out how to maximize Cena is playing into that split reaction, and I'm tired of that. I'm digging the clear-cut good guys vs. bad guys thing right now, feels good. If they can figure out how to integrate him into what's going on right now and get the whole crowd to feel the same way about him one way or another, he's obviously a huge asset. Otherwise, it's just back to LETS GO CENA/CENA SUCKS. I have my doubts that they can Rise Above (the) Hate, they've been trying for a long, long time. |
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Sept 17, 2013 0:01:16 GMT -5
One problem that I'm seeing is that not everyone is getting the chance to step up. Cena's absence should cause a trickle down effect and everyone should be bumped up a level to the point where we're seeing the likes of Yoshi, Hawkins, and Riley wrestling on screen a bit more often, even on just the C-shows. But instead they're stretching out the screen time of everyone who was getting featured anyway. I'm usually with you on the "book the midcard, give the lower midcarders a chance, ect" kick that you're always on but this time you're... well... wrong. Zack Ryder and Justin Gabriel were part of RAW's big ending tonight. The lower midcarders ARE getting involved. Again I'm with you on the WWE needing to have better roster utilization and trying to use the Yoshis, Hawkinses, Rileys, and JTGs better. But this is actually fairly quality roster utilization right now. |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 17, 2013 0:12:37 GMT -5
I can understand fans being happy that Cena's absence is allowing them to use different story dynamics. But if the sentiment is "ding dong the witch is dead till January", then I couldn't disagree more. His omnipresent dominance is one thing, but an able Cena is not something you want to willingly pass up. Unfortunately, it sort of is a "ding dong the witch is dead" feeling. But it's really not him, it's that he's become so hard to book effectively. When he gets beat up people cheer, when he overcomes the heels people yawn or boo (which is worse?), and in my view it really hurts the storytelling, especially the catharsis factor that comes with seeing the good guy prevail. He's had such a long, and frankly weird run at the top that it's a relief to see the product back to normal in a way. Pro wrestling is a weird animal in that it's scripted but there's a live crowd reacting immediately to everything that's happening, and it can really screw with things if that crowd is reacting in a way that contradicts the story being told. It can make for a novel atmosphere, but that's been done to death over the years out of necessity. The only way they've been able to figure out how to maximize Cena is playing into that split reaction, and I'm tired of that. I'm digging the clear-cut good guys vs. bad guys thing right now, feels good. If they can figure out how to integrate him into what's going on right now and get the whole crowd to feel the same way about him one way or another, he's obviously a huge asset. Otherwise, it's just back to LETS GO CENA/CENA SUCKS. I have my doubts that they can Rise Above (the) Hate, they've been trying for a long, long time. Sadly, the fact they've played into his split reactions for so long (with RVD, Punk, Rock, Bryan, even Batista to a degree at times, selling Cena Sucks shirts) is probably the main reason why he's become so difficult to book. But I think the solution to get him a more unanimous reaction is simple: just give him truly nasty heels to fight. He's a very righteous character, and righteous characters come off best when they're feuding with someone truly evil (Edge outside of Canada, Orton and Barrett may have given Cena some of his loudest pops as a face). Fortunately for him, the Corporation is unspeakably evil. And no, I'm not asking he take over the storyline- heck, maybe Bryan could rescue HIM from a Shield beatdown. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 0:18:24 GMT -5
I expected a bit of chaos in the Cena vacuum. Hopefully things level out in a few more weeks and they create their own environment for when Cena does come back.
I don't see him going away and he'd do better in a new sandbox to play in.
As far as creating new stars or elevating people, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yoshi being part of the dozen or so guys who ran out to help doesn't really mean anything for him other than he was a nonheel body in the back.
DBry is the only guy benefiting so far as guys like Ziggler and Miz were much better off before this storyline.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 0:21:37 GMT -5
Ehhhhhhhhhhh... I wanna agree with you but...I am so feeling the "**** John Cena" vibe. I'd be fine if he never came back to a wrestling ring again, but since that ain't gonna happen... So you'd be happy if one of the best wrestlers and talkers in the industry never appeared in a ring again? Not my view, but to each their own. "Happy" might be too strong of a word. Indifferent? Apathetic? Unmoved? Uncaring? I don't think he's entertaining nor do I care for 2/3s of his promos, so Cena can stay his monkey-ass at home. I wouldn't miss him. It'd be a shame because they could book Cena interestingly here, but I wouldn't bet on that. Although, I did give the WWE until last night's Raw and they did pretty much what they were supposed to do, so who knows? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 0:34:37 GMT -5
I expected a bit of chaos in the Cena vacuum. Hopefully things level out in a few more weeks and they create their own environment for when Cena does come back. I don't see him going away and he'd do better in a new sandbox to play in. As far as creating new stars or elevating people, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yoshi being part of the dozen or so guys who ran out to help doesn't really mean anything for him other than he was a nonheel body in the back. DBry is the only guy benefiting so far as guys like Ziggler and Miz were much better off before this storyline. Cody Rhodes is benefiting huge in this too. Ziggler was better off before, agreed. Miz had his best night in a while tonight, he wasn't doing much before so I can only see this doing good things for him. As for the guys that ran in at the end tonight, they'll all be "punished" or something so I think at least some of them will get some extra focus. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 0:49:57 GMT -5
I can understand fans being happy that Cena's absence is allowing them to use different story dynamics. But if the sentiment is "ding dong the witch is dead till January", then I couldn't disagree more. His omnipresent dominance is one thing, but an able Cena is not something you want to willingly pass up. Here's kind of the thing with Cena with me... I'm just tired of him. He's had a ton of great moments and matches, and I can always go back to those, but for the moment I'm just hoping January is a long, long time coming. Wish him a speedy recovery and all but I'm hoping he takes his sweet time about coming back afterward. |
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