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Post by rybackrulez on Sept 24, 2013 1:10:09 GMT -5
I just want to know how the hell it's taken ten months for someone to think to do that to the Shield. I liked how ambrose and reigns tried to save Rollins. Honor among thieves. Stephanie and Hhh having a change of heart for 1 week..interesting
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 1:41:26 GMT -5
I eagerly await the thread decrying that Stephanie is being bullied when she gets her comeuppance later on. It's nothing to do with being mad the bad guys getting comeuppance. It's the psychology of it. The babyfaces had the odds ridiculously stacked in their favor...by the heel COO! If it just happned as a big brawl in the ring and all those guys came out and owned the Shield, that would've been just fine, even awesome. But this was a match made by Triple H. We've already seen a 3 man team beat The Shield straight up, hell I think Christian and The Usos did it before. Bryan and The Usos almost beat The Shield on their own last week on Smackdown. So it was them, plus Ziggler, Truth, Gabriel, and Ryder, and those are just the guys that hadn't already wrestled that night. Plus The Shield was attacked by Goldust and Cody Rhodes before the match. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Sure if you look at it completely surface level "Shield got what they deserved" it's great. But there's a lot more to it, as laid out above, and to brush all that off and just say "it's not hard to understand, you guys" doesn't fly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 1:43:35 GMT -5
I eagerly await the thread decrying that Stephanie is being bullied when she gets her comeuppance later on. It's nothing to do with being mad the bad guys getting comeuppance. It's the psychology of it. The babyfaces had the odds ridiculously stacked in their favor...by the heel COO! If it just happned as a big brawl in the ring and all those guys came out and owned the Shield, that would've been just fine, even awesome. But this was a match made by Triple H. We've already seen a 3 man team beat The Shield straight up, hell I think Christian and The Usos did it before. Bryan and The Usos almost beat The Shield on their own last week on Smackdown. So it was them, plus Ziggler, Truth, Gabriel, and Ryder, and those are just the guys that hadn't already wrestled that night. Plus The Shield was attacked by Goldust and Cody Rhodes before the match. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Sure if you look at it completely surface level "Shield got what they deserved" it's great. But there's a lot more to it, as laid out above, and to brush all that off and just say "it's not hard to understand, you guys" doesn't fly. Hell, it wasn't even an "almost" - Bryan and the Usos did beat them. I dunno, I have no problem with the faces exploiting the situation, but it sure made Triple H look like an idiot and if the faces were going to do that they should done that seven guys sooner.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 24, 2013 1:46:48 GMT -5
But it kind of made the lower carders look weak. Ryder, Gabriel, Titus, and R-Truth all looked like bitches. The only non main eventers that looked good were the Usos and Darren Young for...reasons. Titus had a match earlier, and took the vicious clothesline during it. So I wouldn't say it made Titus look bad. Ryder and Gabriel aren't exactly the biggest guys, so it would be believable that Reigns would destroy them with a spear. And Truth was caught because of a blind tag. Like was mentioned in the Raw thread, the Shield has always been built up as a team, that's always about the team over the individual. So it makes sense they could do damage to a group that isn't an actual team. Plus it made Reigns looked like a f***ing beast. I just had hopes that Ryder and Gabriel's inclusion in this angle meant they were getting elevated. I guess not.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Sept 24, 2013 1:50:23 GMT -5
Titus had a match earlier, and took the vicious clothesline during it. So I wouldn't say it made Titus look bad. Ryder and Gabriel aren't exactly the biggest guys, so it would be believable that Reigns would destroy them with a spear. And Truth was caught because of a blind tag. Like was mentioned in the Raw thread, the Shield has always been built up as a team, that's always about the team over the individual. So it makes sense they could do damage to a group that isn't an actual team. Plus it made Reigns looked like a f***ing beast. I just had hopes that Ryder and Gabriel's inclusion in this angle meant they were getting elevated. I guess not. Clutching at straws it may be, but I think the fact that they ARE included is sort of an elevation in itself. It's more than what Yoshi Tatsu is getting, that's for sure.
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Post by rybackrulez on Sept 24, 2013 1:51:12 GMT -5
Shield were very protected here
Pre-match brawl and an 11-3 unfair advantage
I love how the shield are not cowards
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 1:53:15 GMT -5
The OP is trolling or making satire.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Sept 24, 2013 3:44:31 GMT -5
Now, I am very much on board the 'Babyfaces need to be more Babyface-y' train. I was a big critic of Sheamus' jokey run where he was a total prick and hate it, HATE IT, when the face does something for no reason to a heel and the feud revolves around that rather than them getting revenge for a heel's action.
Having said THAT...
The Shield basically ran roughshot over the roster for almost a year, kicking everyone's head in and talking about 'justice' when doing it. Screwing people out of title shots, ambushing people, powerbombing everyone in sight. So after 10 MONTHS of this stuff, the faces FINALLY get their revenge by beating the stuffing out of the guys who beat the stuffing out of them. As many, MANY others have said, THAT'S pro wrestling. That's the kind of stuff they SHOULD be booking instead of Sheamus making fun out of Barrett for *shock horror* acting in a movie.
It's not even 'An Eye for an Eye', it's 'Turnabout is Fair Play'.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Sept 24, 2013 6:37:42 GMT -5
That beatdown on Rollins was just like the beatings the Shield do every week. I don't see the issue. Two wrongs don't make a right. a vicious lie made to keep people from retaliating against wrongs. Remember, treat others as you wish to be treated. Now apply that philosophy to the Shield
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 6:52:03 GMT -5
That beatdown on Rollins was just like the beatings the Shield do every week. I don't see the issue. Two wrongs don't make a right. Only if you believe that punishing thugs by using brute force is "wrong." Also pro wrestling, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 7:51:34 GMT -5
Wrestling is akin to an action movie in that people want to see the faces unmercifully kicking the asses of the guys who deserve it. That's how it should work, but for some reason it doesn't right now. Would people really prefer heels who do dastardly things and faces who just continue to play by the rules no matter what, even when they've seen that doing otherwise has no consequences? Wrestling has evolved in such a way that getting a win in a wrestling match isn't considered comeuppance enough anymore. I keep coming back to that Cole/Lawler example, but Michael Cole tormented Jerry Lawler for what seemed like months. A win isn't enough anymore when you've built it that much, the fans want to see the heel utterly humiliated.
Sheamus was a pretty good example of a face done right, but the problem is that he was booked completely wrong. A face absolutely should be a jerk to the heels, but the heel should be much more of a jerk to deserve it. The odds need to be against the face, and that's why the gloves come off, so to speak. If Daniel Bryan suddenly started being a jerk like Sheamus to HHH, no one would think that it was undeserved, but when it's between Sheamus and Del Rio and Sheamus is the bigger bully, that's when it comes off wrong.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Sept 24, 2013 8:06:01 GMT -5
Wrestling is akin to an action movie in that people want to see the faces unmercifully kicking the asses of the guys who deserve it. That's how it should work, but for some reason it doesn't right now. Would people really prefer heels who do dastardly things and faces who just continue to play by the rules no matter what, even when they've seen that doing otherwise has no consequences? Wrestling has evolved in such a way that getting a win in a wrestling match isn't considered comeuppance enough anymore. I keep coming back to that Cole/Lawler example, but Michael Cole tormented Jerry Lawler for what seemed like months. A win isn't enough anymore when you've built it that much, the fans want to see the heel utterly humiliated. Sheamus was a pretty good example of a face done right, but the problem is that he was booked completely wrong. A face absolutely should be a jerk to the heels, but the heel should be much more of a jerk to deserve it. The odds need to be against the face, and that's why the gloves come off, so to speak. If Daniel Bryan suddenly started being a jerk like Sheamus to HHH, no one would think that it was undeserved, but when it's between Sheamus and Del Rio and Sheamus is the bigger bully, that's when it comes off wrong. It wasn't too long ago that we had consecutive shows where Shield beat the crap out of Bryan with HHH watching on, so Daniel getting a bit of revenge on them along with his Rebel friends was something that absolutely needed to happen. Yeah, he's been winning fairly against Shield, but added comeuppance for the group destroying everyone was also needed.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Sept 24, 2013 8:06:07 GMT -5
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 24, 2013 8:38:41 GMT -5
This is what happens when the Be A Star meme kept going unchecked. People forget the heels are suppose to get their lumps now and then. The Shield played the numbers game for over a year and few cried foul then. The roles are reversed and now they are the victims? Even with the odds supposedly against them (RVD, Kofi ,the PTP entered the match bruised up), the Shield still used the tactics that made them a dominant force. Remember these are the same people who defeated Cena, Orton, Undertaker, Kane, Bryan, Big Show, and numerous others. So they are not helpless victims. The Shield finally felt what it's like on the other side of a swarm attack. The thing that is being forgotten is Hunter sacrificing the Shield for the good of the BUSINESS. By serving the Shield on a platter to Bryan and his allies, he took heat off himself and made it seem like he being a fair and balanced boss.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 24, 2013 8:41:48 GMT -5
the Shield have had that coming for a very long time. hell I'm surprised it took that long. but it was just silly booking. I mean the Shield look fine because they still somehow managed to eliminate 7 of the 11 guys they were facing, but the faces look like rubes because it took so long for them to win, aside from D-Bry and Ziggler they all got their asses kicked when it was their turn to wrestle, and R-truth looked especially like crap because even after it was 5-1 Seth Rollins still managed to eliminate him. plus it makes Trips look like a moron for booking his hired goons to get their asses kicked with no apparent ulterior plan at all. like I said in the Raw thread, unless their goal is to make him like some sort of Caligula figure whose too crazy and stupid to make a coherent decision, that was just terrible all around.
still, Kudos to D-bry and Roman Reigns for both coming out of that looking like beasts.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 8:48:10 GMT -5
I swear some people would rather watch a version of Die Hard with John McClaine shooting the bad guys knee caps and shoulders then later hugging and forgiving them.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 24, 2013 8:50:25 GMT -5
I just figure it was like the Z Warriors from Dragon Ball Z fighting Nappa and Vegeta during the Saiyan Saga. Two-Thirds of the team had no shot against the Shield in the ring but, with the extra numbers, and Bryan, Ziggler, and the Usos, they could win. Ryder, Truth, and Kofi were merely extra bodies out there. I made the exact same omparison in the Raw thread. but that's not a good thing, because having Goku be the guy who won every important fight made everyone else look incidental.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Sept 24, 2013 8:55:49 GMT -5
Suggestion: perhaps the point here is to turn The Shield face? They get so outraged by Triple H putting them in such a situation that they abandon his Corporate stable? Or perhaps it was also to set us up for the good guys getting another massive beating next week-Steph and Trips try to smooth things over with The Shield by hand feeding them the rest of the locker room-and thereby escalating the storyline even more. This is a long term thing, not just one week only.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 8:58:06 GMT -5
I mean, really no one deserves a gang attack. That doesn't prove anything either. Oh the we three lost to 11 guys? OF COURSE WE DID. Now, when they lost on SD in a six man tag - that felt like a more legit comeuppance. This was just HHH showing the faces that they're no better than the Shield because when they had the opportunity to take the high road and fight a fair fight, they chose to go the exact same route as HHH, Steph, Orton and the Shield.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Sept 24, 2013 9:01:41 GMT -5
I mean, really no one deserves a gang attack. That doesn't prove anything either. Oh the we three lost to 11 guys? OF COURSE WE DID. Now, when they lost on SD in a six man tag - that felt like a more legit comeuppance. This was just HHH showing the faces that they're no better than the Shield because when they had the opportunity to take the high road and fight a fair fight, they chose to go the exact same route as HHH, Steph, Orton and the Shield. Yeah, I was at Smackdown, and that did feel better. But you know, no one cares about the blue show. The faces stomached that crap for a year. I don't think it's them sinking low, but it's fire vs. fire. Then again, we just sound like JBL and Cole now.
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