Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 22:26:09 GMT -5
I think they're James Storming the shit out of Bryan right now, and it's going to get the point where fans stop caring as much (imo they already have), which will give WWE cold feet and they don't follow through with the big Bryan win, if that ever was the plan to begin with. I want to think like you, and I did for a time, but I think they're running this into the ground. Not helping is that they're having Triple H and everyone else put Bryan down on the mic, and his mic work/what he's scripted to say has not been strong enought combat it. I want to be optimistic, but I think Bryan's ship is close to sailing. If you bought the last 3 PPVs wanting to see Bryan win the belt, he's "had it won" but not come out as champion every time. They've been too heavy-handed with it. I get what you mean, tonight's progression of the story was sloppy, it seemed like it was going somewhere interesting, then Big Show's music hit for some reason and the show ended on a sour note. But if James Storm is the comparison, A: James Storm isn't half as good as Daniel Bryan, and B: A lot of what went wrong with James Storm was they wrote him to give up and go home and that was dumb as hell. I have to give WWE some leeway because they've committed far more energy into this than any of the other big angles that got everyone's hopes up and I think booking wrestling in the 2010s has got to be some of the hardest shit to pull off. We're all very fickle, he wins the title now and it's too soon, he wins it later it's too late, he wins the title and wins too much we've seen enough. I get it, we've been beaten down by what we've had to go through to remain wrestling fans, but like I said, the energy of the shows and the improved (though again, admittedly imperfect) writing has me giving them the benefit of the doubt so far. This isn't over yet, I'm still certain Bryan's moment is coming, Daniel Bryan might fade into the background for a little bit but when his time comes it'll still be magical. I don't disagree, booking wrestling these days is super-tough. It's easy for me to sit back and say "they should've done this"...but, that's kind of my role as a fan I guess. I hate to say it, but my interest in Daniel Bryan is waning. And I figure if my interest is waning, a lot more fans feel the same way, because I've been rooting for the guy hard since he got to WWE, he's made big a connection with me. Fans that were a little more on the fence are probably ready to move on. The James Storm comparison for me is that they built to the biggest match of his career, fans were so ready for him to win the title, and whoops he lost! Many thought it was just a bump in the road and Storm would have his road to redemption and it would be that much sweeter when he did win the belt, but it never came to be. That Summerslam victory for Bryan was PERFECT. He was on a huge hot streak and his fan support was through the roof, and he beat the biggest star in the company clean as a sheet, it was the right time to pull the trigger. They tried to tell a more complicated story, and I thought it was cool but I'm starting to think it's the same situation all over again.
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Post by kamero00 on Oct 6, 2013 22:26:38 GMT -5
PPV are not Raw or SD. People pay to see them, b/c the specifically want results. 2nd time in a row a PPV offered no conclusion or winner.
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Post by celticjobber on Oct 6, 2013 22:28:16 GMT -5
Yeah, everything else kind of sucks. But I'm just glad AJ Lee is still the Divas Champion.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 6, 2013 22:30:09 GMT -5
This angle feels less like building a star in Bryan and more like awful filler until Cena comes back. So yeah, I think the potential of it has been more than ruined. Yeah, it's getting there. I don't see why they couldn't have just kept the title on Bryan or Orton. People will argue that Bryan will FINALLY win at Wrestlemania. That's a long time from now and NOTHING is guaranteed there. Plus, I think it's a fantasy to believe that someone gets their moment at Wrestlemania. That may have been the case 15 years ago, but we haven't really gotten it since Wrestlemania 22. They had their moment with Summerslam. They could have screwed Bryan at the next PPV and then gone from there. Instead, it's a bunch of farce endings where no one benefits, except for this "evil authority" realm. Guess what? The way they're treating the storyline is becoming less about Bryan winning the title and more about Bryan finally getting his hands on Triple H. Which makes me believe he isn't going to win the WWE title again, at least nothing significant...maybe a one month reign...tops. Instead, I see him facing Trips at Mania, where somehow Trips gets ahold of his magic hammer after a ref bump and wins the match. Oh joy.
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Scooterdust
ALF
I'm in the center of the epicenter of the pandemic!
Posts: 1,102
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Post by Scooterdust on Oct 6, 2013 22:30:16 GMT -5
I already posted this in the Battleground thread, but I'll put here too.
This is an idea I posted on Facebook for the WWE to salvage the booking after tonight's debacle:
This entire angle seems to be a replay of Austin's chase for the belt in the Fall of 1998.
If they want to salvage this, the most logical choice is for Triple H to say that Daniel Bryan blew his chance at the title, and order a tournament for the title at Hell In A Cell, and make Bryan go through a long process just to get a spot in the tournament. When Bryan gets in, Triple H makes it even more difficult for Bryan to advance, but he does it despite the odds. The semi-finals should consist of Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Randy Orton, and The Big Show. The Big Show should actually lay down for Daniel Bryan in the semi-finals, and Orton can go over Rhodes with no harm to Cody's new push; the finals are inside the Cell. Orton wins the match through some convoluted means, only for the deus ex machina, the return of Vince, who says he isn't going to make the same mistakes he did 15 years ago, restarts the match and Bryan finally beats Orton clean, with Vince realizing that Daniel Bryan proved to him that he had what it took be the face of the company.
I just gave the WWE their way out, but nothing close to this will actually happen. It is a sad time to be a WWE fan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 22:32:40 GMT -5
I get what you mean, tonight's progression of the story was sloppy, it seemed like it was going somewhere interesting, then Big Show's music hit for some reason and the show ended on a sour note. But if James Storm is the comparison, A: James Storm isn't half as good as Daniel Bryan, and B: A lot of what went wrong with James Storm was they wrote him to give up and go home and that was dumb as hell. I have to give WWE some leeway because they've committed far more energy into this than any of the other big angles that got everyone's hopes up and I think booking wrestling in the 2010s has got to be some of the hardest shit to pull off. We're all very fickle, he wins the title now and it's too soon, he wins it later it's too late, he wins the title and wins too much we've seen enough. I get it, we've been beaten down by what we've had to go through to remain wrestling fans, but like I said, the energy of the shows and the improved (though again, admittedly imperfect) writing has me giving them the benefit of the doubt so far. This isn't over yet, I'm still certain Bryan's moment is coming, Daniel Bryan might fade into the background for a little bit but when his time comes it'll still be magical. I don't disagree, booking wrestling these days is super-tough. It's easy for me to sit back and say "they should've done this"...but, that's kind of my role as a fan I guess. I hate to say it, but my interest in Daniel Bryan is waning. And I figure if my interest is waning, a lot more fans feel the same way, because I've been rooting for the guy hard since he got to WWE, he's made big a connection with me. Fans that were a little mroe on the fence are probably ready to move on. The James Storm comparison for me is that they built to the biggest match of his career, fans were so ready for him to win the title, and whoops he lost! Many thought it was just a bump in the road and Storm would have his road to redemption and it would be that much sweeter when he did win the belt, but it never came to be. That Summerslam victory for Bryan was PERFECT. He was on a huge hot streak and his fan support was through the roof, it was the right time to pull the trigger. They tried to tell a more complicated story, and I thought it was cool but I'm starting to think it's the same situation all over again. Fair enough. I obviously have a little more faith than you but I can't disagree with your logic. At the same time, this outrage is similar to when Bobby Roode lost to Kurt Angle at BFG and he ended up having one of TNA's best title reigns ever. I think the Storm comparison also flies when you consider that though everyone thought Storm was gonna be the guy, all of a sudden Roode pops up and blows everyone away and it almost seems like the wind is blowing that direction with Cody Rhodes. But I'm still not worried a bit about Daniel Bryan personally, even if he doesn't become the face of the company the guy is just too talented to fail in the WWE at this point.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 17,312
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Post by Renslayer on Oct 6, 2013 22:33:25 GMT -5
I said a while back that we'd get the "Judgement Day" finish tonight. Next, we'll have a screwy ending at HIAC, which still will leave us w/ no Champion. Finally, we'll get a tournament for the belt at Survivor Series. I like the Judgment Day finish, but having a PPV before Survivor Series really complicates matters. I wish they'd just do away with the HIAC PPV.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
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Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 6, 2013 22:36:59 GMT -5
They're making me miss Cena, which I did not see happening. Big Show is just so damned boring.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Oct 6, 2013 22:37:16 GMT -5
At least it wasn't a simple double DQ or countout
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 6, 2013 22:41:47 GMT -5
At least it wasn't a simple double DQ or countout At least the realm of Hell didn't open up under the arena, sucking the ring, the participants and ref under into the depths of eternal torture, where you're forced to watch the end of this match on a continual loop for the rest of eternity. At least..
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Oct 6, 2013 22:45:09 GMT -5
They're making me miss Cena, which I did not see happening. Big Show is just so damned boring. You telling me that you weren't thrilled after he punched Orton and he did his little happy dance?!
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Post by sportatorium on Oct 6, 2013 22:50:00 GMT -5
I haven't liked any of this since SummerSlam, but have tried to be patient w/the angle. Nobody is getting over, Bryan is going to lose momentum, Orton already has.
HHH & Steph are getting heat, they just ended a Ppv with a guy standing tall who shouldn't be anywhere near the title.
Just decide if Daniel Bryan is SCSA 2013 defying authority, or if Randy is the evil face of the WWE. Either way is better than this.
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 41,981
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Oct 6, 2013 22:50:08 GMT -5
I said a while back that we'd get the "Judgement Day" finish tonight. Next, we'll have a screwy ending at HIAC, which still will leave us w/ no Champion. Finally, we'll get a tournament for the belt at Survivor Series. I like the Judgment Day finish, but having a PPV before Survivor Series really complicates matters. I wish they'd just do away with the HIAC PPV. Yeah, they should only have 1 ppv in October, but that won't happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 22:53:20 GMT -5
"Screwed up?" No, not at all. The fact they actually had Daniel Bryan win over John Cena at SummerSlam puts this above a lot of the other failures. I'll even give them Night of Champions because Daniel Bryan HAD to win there. I think the problem is that this is obviously going to end up at WrestleMania and they have so much time to fill that they have to keep adding and adding to it and it gets diluted. Not to say it won't get better once it gets time for Survivor Series, but we still have Hell in a Cell to get through and it's pretty much always been a throwaway PPV. If they had started this at Royal Rumble, it might be different but I think it's still interesting enough to stick with. You just gotta give it time and see where it goes. Or wait for Cena to come back and f*** it up, who knows. How long ago does that win over Cena seem now though? They had a perfect storm in giving a guy the ball, Bryan was red hot, fans were clamoring for it, your top star has to leave for half a year, and he's willing to pass the torch by losing cleanly. Trying to stretch it all out to peak at Mania is kind of greedy when they had such a great situation fall into their laps. And it's not like it was at Over the Limit, it was at Summerslam, the biggest non-WM PPV they've got.
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Post by WorkingInAColeMine on Oct 6, 2013 22:59:30 GMT -5
A lot of people think WWE is always going to mess up and ruin everything in the end.
Which seems like terrible, not very fun way to watch something.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 6, 2013 23:00:33 GMT -5
That's the problem with this whole thing. Their argument against Bryan makes no sense. You don't look like a champion. And Bob Backlund, Yokozuna or JBL did? It borderlines on what exactly they're referring to, especially when they drop shit like "he can't draw" and all that. Are they implying that they only keep champions champion when they do draw? Is there some sort of scandal that maybe certain wrestlers in the past didn't get title shots or the ones that did, didn't last long because someone from the top made sure to take them down? This whole thing would make more sense if they shed light on certain things, or better yet...reevaluate how you're going to benefit this guy from it.
I hate to go back to Stone Cold, but at least there, the story was simple and easy to follow. Vince didn't want Stone Cold champion because he couldn't control Stone Cold like he could others. Easy effective story.
Triple H, Vince and Stephanie don't want Bryan champion because he looks funny. Yeah. I mean, it might make sense if Bryan was RVD and stoned out of his mind and the company saw him as a liability, but saying he looks funny and can't draw? The hell? You're shining a light on the notion that wrestling is predetermined.
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Post by SenorCrest on Oct 6, 2013 23:17:56 GMT -5
Wasn't the whole SummerSlam build a product of that soap opera writer? I thought he quit after SummerSlam which explains why it has gone to shit. I agree with everyone that Bryan winning was awesome same with the hhh and Orton heel turn. No
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Post by xCompackx on Oct 6, 2013 23:20:33 GMT -5
"Screwed up?" No, not at all. The fact they actually had Daniel Bryan win over John Cena at SummerSlam puts this above a lot of the other failures. I'll even give them Night of Champions because Daniel Bryan HAD to win there. I think the problem is that this is obviously going to end up at WrestleMania and they have so much time to fill that they have to keep adding and adding to it and it gets diluted. Not to say it won't get better once it gets time for Survivor Series, but we still have Hell in a Cell to get through and it's pretty much always been a throwaway PPV. If they had started this at Royal Rumble, it might be different but I think it's still interesting enough to stick with. You just gotta give it time and see where it goes. Or wait for Cena to come back and f*** it up, who knows. How long ago does that win over Cena seem now though? They had a perfect storm in giving a guy the ball, Bryan was red hot, fans were clamoring for it, your top star has to leave for half a year, and he's willing to pass the torch by losing cleanly. Trying to stretch it all out to peak at Mania is kind of greedy when they had such a great situation fall into their laps. And it's not like it was at Over the Limit, it was at Summerslam, the biggest non-WM PPV they've got. See, that's the tough thing. We'll probably never know what the pre-Cena's injury plans were for after SummerSlam or if Daniel Bryan would've even won if he hadn't of had to leave (I'd like to think he would've, but you never know). I agree that they had an awesome thing fall into their laps with Daniel Bryan being so popular and Total Divas being such a hit, but they already had the wheels in motion with Randy Orton being MITB.
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Post by Bear Skin Rug on Oct 6, 2013 23:24:36 GMT -5
Nobody is getting over, Bryan is going to lose momentum, Orton already has. Yeah, I'd say this has killed Orton more than anyone else
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Post by Starshine on Oct 6, 2013 23:28:52 GMT -5
Screw the "wait and see" crap. If it's bad now, it's bad NOW. Regardless whether it gets better, why should anyone have to put up with crap like this to get there?
Good shows are consistently good. They also don't crap on their fan base and deliver constant cop outs.
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