Glitch
Grimlock
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,787
|
Post by Glitch on Oct 20, 2013 19:07:50 GMT -5
But would the wwe still be able to do the same if they weren't back by millions? They can get away with pushing certain guys because their audience will bitch but will still continue to watch. You can't really do that in an indy fed. When Vince bought the company from his dad, it wasn't exactly some no name indy(and it was a different time as well). He had a little bit of room already to work with, versus an indy fed today who has to fight through astronomical odds for any attention. Likewise, if millions of dollars and a tv deal fell on PWG's lap, would they still not grow? You make it sound as if all indy companies are small because they are buffoons who have no idea what they are doing. Could a company work with no money,well WWE did when they were in the red in 95-96 and when they werent much to start with in 60s,70s Vincent Kennedy McMahon put the whole company and finances on the line to support the First WM. He saw talent and brought them to one place and he did what no other promotion thought to do,expand. He was the first with a national tv deal leading to expansion and the growth of professional wrestling from Hulkamania,Hart,DX,Attitude Era to a multi-hundred million dollar revenue family corporation. Contrary to your "Indyz great,WWE Sucx and is only there bc of money", Vince Jr took the reigns from Sr and made this company and professional wrestling what it is. Without the WWE,without Vinces genius,will,creativity There would be no Austin,Rock,Wrestlemania,attitude era,no message boards to speak of. Professional wrestling would have been what it was before Vince Jr took over,a regional promotion,indies all over and different companies spanning different states none nationally Much less Globally. Now I realize you hate WWE and indyz,attitude era hur dur,and you dont wtch it and clntribute to WWEs dupport or bottom line so why are you here? Oh, you got me. I am totally blind to how the wwf first got built. It started as a wrestling stand (same way a hot dog cart or taco stand works) and with his own two hands built his empire. Vince took simple auto parts, and somehow with his own ingenuity built Hulk Hogan. He built a great wrestler from just stuff he found at the junk yard! How awesome! Non of us really like the indies(just look at that boring shit). We just watch it out of anger because we hate the wwe. Mostly because we're jealous that we don't have the grape fruits that Vince McMahon has. Thanks for setting me right, my friend.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 19:08:21 GMT -5
This thread kinda proves OP's point....kinda. Unless the point was to troll, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Oct 20, 2013 19:08:35 GMT -5
This thread kinda proves OP's point....kinda. He didn't really make a point, he just attacked people for enjoying something that he didn't personally enjoy himself.
|
|
Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,372
|
Post by Push R Truth on Oct 20, 2013 19:11:16 GMT -5
I like over-the-top wrestling and I don't need to apologize for it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 19:11:42 GMT -5
This thread kinda proves OP's point....kinda. He didn't really make a point, he just attacked people for enjoying something that he didn't personally enjoy himself. I don't really see where he attacked anyone. He just said that he doesn't understand why people defend WWE so vehemently.
|
|
|
Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Oct 20, 2013 19:15:15 GMT -5
|
|
SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 20, 2013 19:17:00 GMT -5
Could a company work with no money,well WWE did when they were in the red in 95-96 and when they werent much to start with in 60s,70s Vincent Kennedy McMahon put the whole company and finances on the line to support the First WM. He saw talent and brought them to one place and he did what no other promotion thought to do,expand. He was the first with a national tv deal leading to expansion and the growth of professional wrestling from Hulkamania,Hart,DX,Attitude Era to a multi-hundred million dollar revenue family corporation. Contrary to your "Indyz great,WWE Sucx and is only there bc of money", Vince Jr took the reigns from Sr and made this company and professional wrestling what it is. Without the WWE,without Vinces genius,will,creativity There would be no Austin,Rock,Wrestlemania,attitude era,no message boards to speak of. Professional wrestling would have been what it was before Vince Jr took over,a regional promotion,indies all over and different companies spanning different states none nationally Much less Globally. Now I realize you hate WWE and indyz,attitude era hur dur,and you dont wtch it and clntribute to WWEs dupport or bottom line so why are you here? The hell is your problem? 1). A seeming inability to properly operate the "Enter" key.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Oct 20, 2013 19:18:08 GMT -5
He didn't really make a point, he just attacked people for enjoying something that he didn't personally enjoy himself. I don't really see where he attacked anyone. He just said that he doesn't understand why people defend WWE so vehemently. I saw it as a mean-spirited attack, but even if you're right, I don't think it counts as a "point"
|
|
|
Post by Bear Skin Rug on Oct 20, 2013 19:21:54 GMT -5
I see a ton of people defend the product with the usual "Don't watch it if you don't like it" I agree with the OP here. An annoying variation is "well you're still going to watch next week." People can criticize things because they enjoy them want them to be better. The love it or leave it sentiment is really baffling.
|
|
|
Post by celticjobber on Oct 20, 2013 19:23:49 GMT -5
As long as AJ Lee is on every show, WWE is great IMO.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 19:24:23 GMT -5
I don't really see where he attacked anyone. He just said that he doesn't understand why people defend WWE so vehemently. I saw it as a mean-spirited attack, but even if you're right, I don't think it counts as a "point" Attack on who? I really don't see where he attacked anyone.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Oct 20, 2013 19:27:42 GMT -5
I see a ton of people defend the product with the usual "Don't watch it if you don't like it" I agree with the OP here. An annoying variation is "well you're still going to watch next week." People can criticize things because they enjoy them want them to be better. The love it or leave it sentiment is really baffling. I don't know what kinds of stuff (tv, films, music), you're a fan of, but wouldn't you find it baffling if someone hounded you over and over again (OP does this all the time) demanding to know why you like what you like, with the implication that there's something wrong with you due to your preferences? Is that a guy you'd want to hang out with?
|
|
|
Post by Bear Skin Rug on Oct 20, 2013 19:33:31 GMT -5
I agree with the OP here. An annoying variation is "well you're still going to watch next week." People can criticize things because they enjoy them want them to be better. The love it or leave it sentiment is really baffling. I don't know what kinds of stuff (tv, films, music), you're a fan of, but wouldn't you find it baffling if someone hounded you over and over again (OP does this all the time) demanding to know why you like what you like, with the implication that there's something wrong with you due to your preferences? Is that a guy you'd want to hang out with? I quoted a small portion of the post on purpose. I didn't come here to argue about the guy who posted it.
|
|
|
Post by WorkingInAColeMine on Oct 20, 2013 19:34:28 GMT -5
I like what they do?
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on Oct 20, 2013 19:34:35 GMT -5
I agree with the OP here. An annoying variation is "well you're still going to watch next week." People can criticize things because they enjoy them want them to be better. The love it or leave it sentiment is really baffling. I don't know what kinds of stuff (tv, films, music), you're a fan of, but wouldn't you find it baffling if someone hounded you over and over again (OP does this all the time) demanding to know why you like what you like, with the implication that there's something wrong with you due to your preferences? Is that a guy you'd want to hang out with? That happens everywhere on the internet, it's nothing special to WWE. If it bothers you, you ignore it. Honestly, I just feel like some of fans have a chip on their shoulder with the "love it or get out" mentality. I swear you can't ever be critical of WWE without some form of "you'll be here next week," or "why do you even watch(?)" popping up.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Oct 20, 2013 19:40:08 GMT -5
I don't know what kinds of stuff (tv, films, music), you're a fan of, but wouldn't you find it baffling if someone hounded you over and over again (OP does this all the time) demanding to know why you like what you like, with the implication that there's something wrong with you due to your preferences? Is that a guy you'd want to hang out with? That happens everywhere on the internet, it's nothing special to WWE. If it bothers you, you ignore it. Honestly, I just feel like some of fans have a chip on their shoulder with the "love it or get out" mentality. I swear you can't ever be critical of WWE without some form of "you'll be here next week," or "why do you even watch(?)" popping up. Everybody likes and dislikes certain stuff. That's what can be interesting about message boards. OP appears to be personally offended that anyone likes this product ever, at all. And he's expressing this on a WWE message board. Kinda weird. But it also makes me glad that I have the ability to spend my time on stuff I'm a fan of, rather than trolling the Twlight films message board, or something.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Oct 20, 2013 19:42:57 GMT -5
I don't know what kinds of stuff (tv, films, music), you're a fan of, but wouldn't you find it baffling if someone hounded you over and over again (OP does this all the time) demanding to know why you like what you like, with the implication that there's something wrong with you due to your preferences? Is that a guy you'd want to hang out with? That happens everywhere on the internet, it's nothing special to WWE. If it bothers you, you ignore it. Honestly, I just feel like some of fans have a chip on their shoulder with the "love it or get out" mentality. I swear you can't ever be critical of WWE without some form of "you'll be here next week," or "why do you even watch(?)" popping up. well, a lot of net criticism, for everything not just wrestling, has this hint of not just "I don't like this" but "I don't like this and no one else should either."
|
|
Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
|
Post by Chip on Oct 20, 2013 19:48:24 GMT -5
The hell is your problem? 1). A seeming inability to properly operate the "Enter" key. I actually kinda have to give him props for typing all that shit out on a mobile device, if that was me I'd have gone insane and just not bothered.
|
|
RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
|
Post by RIHT on Oct 20, 2013 19:54:14 GMT -5
|
|
Glitch
Grimlock
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,787
|
Post by Glitch on Oct 20, 2013 19:57:11 GMT -5
But would the wwe still be able to do the same if they weren't back by millions? They can get away with pushing certain guys because their audience will bitch but will still continue to watch. You can't really do that in an indy fed. When Vince bought the company from his dad, it wasn't exactly some no name indy(and it was a different time as well). He had a little bit of room already to work with, versus an indy fed today who has to fight through astronomical odds for any attention. Likewise, if millions of dollars and a tv deal fell on PWG's lap, would they still not grow? You make it sound as if all indy companies are small because they are buffoons who have no idea what they are doing. Where did they get the millions? Wasn't it from running this "terrible" wrestling product? Many, many wrestling promotions have died off in the last 30 years. A few, like WCW, had some success and made a lot of money. That's no guarantee of being around forever. As WCW learned, it's no guarantee of being around another year or two. If you subscribe to the general cynical view, the WWE was terrible in the mid-90s, had a few good years in the late 90s, and then have been terrible ever since. Generally in the entertainment industry or business generally, a couple of good years more than a decade ago doesn't guarantee your survival forever. They're clearly doing something right. How long do we have to wait for another company to be relevant? I hear so often on this board about how stupid the WWE is, about how they miss the "obvious" booking that the indies would always get right. If the wrestling business is so easy to succeed in, if message board posters are smarter than the WWE, why can nobody make money at this? And I'm definitely not saying all indy companies are buffons, they obviously do stuff that entertains their fans, which is great. I just think in 2013, it's just about impossible to make significant money with a wrestling company, and somehow, the WWE does it year after year, and they've been the only one who has for close to 15 years now, and they deserve at least some credit for that. I think the "indy smugness" that some have, isn't really warranted (and I don't think most indy fans, or most working for indy promotions have that smugness, I think the majority of those fans just prefer that kind of product, which is great....but I see no evidence in the bottom line that the WWE business plan is terrible, that they're a bunch of bafoons, and that all the real wrestling geniuses are out in the indies - if that was the case, at SOME point there's going to be some kind of real-life market correction). Ring of Honor or whoever can have the greatest booking, most exciting matches, best character development, but that formula does not, and has not ever, equaled actual real world business success, which is what the WWE's motive is (and which they've been successful at for many years). Vince did take a small company and make it worth millions. But keep in mind that the original wwf owned by his father was not an indie fed. It was a fairly successful regional promotion and, it was during a time when there weren't that many forms of entertainment to compete with. It was also during a time when it was new to see wrestling on a national level. A good question is if ROH or PWG had that same type of environment, would they have better luck? For that matter would they give the wwe a run for it's money if they competed? At the moment we don't truly know if their shows are marketable to a mass audience because they have not been marketed as such. Like wise, if McMahon lost his company and had to start with a low budget indie promotion today, would he be able to grow to the size of the wwe? Now I'm not saying Vince is an idiot who got lucky. He knew what to do to get ahead in the 80's and how to survive wcw, but he doesn't always get it right, and at times has simply prevailed because his competition was run by idiots(AWA and WCW). That's also the reason the company can coast off their previous accomplishments. As long as wwe doesn't sink to awa/wcw levels, they are safe.
|
|