RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Oct 20, 2013 14:04:59 GMT -5
Every time I see a thread that calls out WWE on their falsities and horrible mistakes, these days, I see a ton of people defend the product with the usual "Don't watch it if you don't like it", "be patient", or even "WWE's not perfect. Don't be so hard on them!" (that one really gets me).
Yes, nothing is perfect, but why the hell should anyone defend a major corporation if it screws up, or in WWE's case, consistently screws up? Yeah, people have differing opinions about what's good, but there's always the general consensus that one could say is the "right" opinion (although people can have another opinion). Michael Jackson was one of the best music artists ever, Forrest Gump is a very emotionally appealing movie, and for wrestling, it was good in the past. As for now, it's awful. Sure, the "roster's better than it's ever been" because there are so many good wrestlers, but they aren't doing anything with it! It's a misinterpretation of quantity vs. quality. Back in the mid-late 90s, you had 4-8 top guys that were consistently good (HBK, Hart, Undertaker, Stone Cold), and even with some bad shows or stories, the overall good was there. WWE is awful now, and has been for years.
You now have tons of "great wrestlers", but only 1-3 top guys WWE does anything with, and they're not consistent (i.e. Punk's heel run in 2012 vs. dragging storyline with Paul Heyman in 2013). Hell, after seeing the garbage WWE spewed in the past 3 months, I've learned to really like Cena. Too bad they book him horribly and get fans annoyed with him because he is a good wrestler and really is the star of the company. Even with some good like the rise of Cody Rhodes, Daniel Bryan, or the Pipebomb, there's more bad than good. Plus, WWE always screws it up in the end these days. The Punk/HHH/Nash storyline ended with Del Rio winning the title and Triple H stealing the spotlight, Bryan vs. Orton jumped too many guns and made too many mistakes (NOC and Battleground), and lord knows what will happen to Cody Rhodes. Shut up about Dolph Ziggler, Drew McIntyre, Fandango, Bray Wyatt, and all the rest being amazing, because regardless of what good they can do, they're being booked to garbage right now. And what about NXT? It's like it's own thing from WWE. No way that bastard Vince would let that stuff fly on the big shows.
The reason why I dislike WWE is not because it's "bad", but it's because they come so close to doing amazing things these days but come up short. It's more of a disappointment to see something I want to enjoy screw itself over. I'm not a "Cena hater" or a "PG hater", it's just that I feel WWE's had too many chances to get it right in the past few years. I don't hate anyone for differing opinions, but I sincerely want to know how someone can defend WWE these days.
Please don't give me the usual "quit whining" or "don't watch", because I really don't watch anymore, I don't buy anything from WWE (never really have anyways), I have no intentions of ever seeing a live event, I don't even stream PPVs anymore, and the only wrestling I watch is older stuff. Don't tell me to watch the indies because I'm not that interested, but that's just my opinion. This is about WWE, so keep it about WWE. How can anyone defend it? I know I'm not alone in being so disdained about WWE. How can people defend it? Why do people defend it? Please explain in the comments.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 14:08:04 GMT -5
Oh God, you're the same guy who made that long winded post about "settling" for WWE's product aren't you?
For the last time....SOME PEOPLE ENJOY IT. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE "SETTLE". THAT IS WHY PEOPLE DEFEND WWE.
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Post by JTG Fan on Oct 20, 2013 14:08:12 GMT -5
Because it's just your damn opinion. Prince was better than MJ and Forrest Gump sucked.
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Post by Larryhausen on Oct 20, 2013 14:11:58 GMT -5
I defend it because I'm highly entertained by the product.
And Michael Jackson bored the hell out of me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 14:12:19 GMT -5
It comes down to a simple realisation that quality is not set in stone as a fact, our own perceptions decide what is positive and/or negative.
You raise many good points to why WWE is a frustrating watch, but for those who may dislike the story & often inconsistent and aimless writing, if they watch for wrestling this roster is having consistently brilliant matches like nobodies business, the best WWE has ever been in ring for my money.
If people say "quit whining/stop watching" as a means of defending their enjoyment of the product, yes it's a jerk move, especially if they can't raise a valid argument for why they enjoy it.
However you cast the same negative shadow by inferring that you can not explain why you may enjoy said product.
If people enjoy it and can give valid reasons (see: D-Bry being a main eventer, refreshing stories that seem to be making fans support faces continually, match quality, interesting developmental talent coming up, generally consistent PPVs, big nostalgia moments with Goldust) then they don't need to prove anything.
General opinion isn't the only opinion. As long as people can give valid points for why they enjoy/dislike the product right now then they have every right to enjoy/dislike the show.
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Post by molson5 on Oct 20, 2013 14:13:03 GMT -5
Why are you so offended that people want to watch this show? It doesn't impact you in any way.
And ya, "and for wrestling, it was good in the past", that's been a pretty loud expressed opinion about wrestling since the internet was around, and if you go back to the old newsgroups, and dirt sheets, they were crapping on it in the 80s and talking about how much better it used to be in the past then too. I think a lot of other entities in entertainment, like music, and Saturday Night Live, get the same kind of knocks on it. It's just a part of human nature that I'm sure someone could break down the psychology of. And maybe it's true, maybe everything sucks now, but what can I tell you, I like checking out RAW on occasion (If I'm not into the main storylines, I might not pay as much attention, but I don't get angry over it, I've been watching for 28 years and there's always something new soon enough), and Saturday Night Live, and if that angers you, sorry, I'd rather spend time with stuff I enjoy than stuff I don't, that's all there is to it. I don't really feel the need to "defend" myself any more than that.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Oct 20, 2013 14:13:35 GMT -5
Every time I see a thread that calls out WWE on their falsities and horrible mistakes, these days, I see a ton of people defend the product with the usual "Don't watch it if you don't like it", "be patient", or even "WWE's not perfect. Don't be so hard on them!" (that one really gets me). Yes, nothing is perfect, but why the hell should anyone defend a major corporation if it screws up, or in WWE's case, consistently screws up? Yeah, people have differing opinions about what's good, but there's always the general consensus that one could say is the "right" opinion. Michael Jackson was one of the best music artists ever, Forrest Gump is a very emotionally appealing movie, and for wrestling, it was good in the past. As for now, it's awful. Sure, the "roster's better than it's ever been" because there are so many good wrestlers, but they aren't doing anything with it! It's a misinterpretation of quantity vs. quality. Back in the mid-late 90s, you had 4-8 top guys that were consistently good (HBK, Hart, Undertaker, Stone Cold), and even with some bad shows or stories, the overall good was there. WWE is awful now, and has been for years. You now have tons of "great wrestlers", but only 1-3 top guys WWE does anything with, and they're not consistent (i.e. Punk's heel run in 2012 vs. dragging storyline with Paul Heyman in 2013). Hell, after seeing the garbage WWE spewed in the past 3 months, I've learned to really like Cena. Too bad they book him horribly and get fans annoyed with him because he is a good wrestler and really is the star of the company. Even with some good like the rise of Cody Rhodes, Daniel Bryan, or the Pipebomb, there's more bad than good. Plus, WWE always screws it up in the end these days. The Punk/HHH/Nash storyline ended with Del Rio winning the title and Triple H stealing the spotlight, Bryan vs. Orton jumped too many guns and made too many mistakes (NOC and Battleground), and lord knows what will happen to Cody Rhodes. Shut up about Dolph Ziggler, Drew McIntyre, Fandango, Bray Wyatt, and all the rest being amazing, because regardless of what good they can do, they're being booked to garbage right now. And what about NXT? It's like it's own thing from WWE. No way that bastard Vince would let that stuff fly on the big shows. Please don't give me the usual "quit whining" or "don't watch", because I really don't watch anymore, I don't buy anything from WWE (never really have anyways), I have no intentions of ever seeing a live event, I don't even stream PPVs anymore, and the only wrestling I watch is older stuff. Don't tell me to watch the indies because I'm not that interested, but that's just my opinion. This is about WWE, so keep it about WWE. How can anyone defend it? I know I'm not alone in being so disdained about WWE. How can people defend it? Why do people defend it? Please explain in the comments. how do you know all these problems with the WWE if you don't really watch anything. And your list of guys WWE did stuff with in the past, the only top thing Austin did while Hart was there was wrestle Hart. These guys technically overlapped but not as top guys
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Oct 20, 2013 14:15:37 GMT -5
However you cast the same negative shadow by inferring that you can not explain why you may enjoy said product. The reason why I dislike WWE is not because it's "bad", but it's because they come so close to doing amazing things these days but come up short. It's more of a disappointment to see something I want to enjoy screw itself over. I'm not a "Cena hater" or a "PG hater", it's just that I feel WWE's had too many chances to get it right in the past few years.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 20, 2013 14:16:31 GMT -5
If you don't watch, why do you care?
You wanna know why people defend WWE? Because this is a discussion board. That's what we do. We don't just say "THIS SUCKS" and leave it at that. We give our own opinions on the matter at hand. If you like it, say so! If you don't like it, explain why! If you disagree with someone, have a discussion with them!
Contrary to what some people think, this ain't no hivemind. We are a community made up of various people with various preferences. That's what makes this place so fun.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Oct 20, 2013 14:18:43 GMT -5
I want to know why you're so obsessed with other peoples opinions of something that you don't watch at all.
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Post by molson5 on Oct 20, 2013 14:18:56 GMT -5
If you don't watch, why do you care? I know the OP didn't want "this answer", but I just don't understand how anything else is relevant. If I saw a movie I didn't like, I wouldn't watch it a few more times and troll the imdb message board of the movie to attack people who liked it and demand they defend themselves. Or maybe a better example, TNA, I am not a fan of their show at all. I can't imagine spending a ton of time on the TNA board and asking the fans there what their problem is.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 14:20:12 GMT -5
However you cast the same negative shadow by inferring that you can not explain why you may enjoy said product. The reason why I dislike WWE is not because it's "bad", but it's because they come so close to doing amazing things these days but come up short. It's more of a disappointment to see something I want to enjoy screw itself over. I'm not a "Cena hater" or a "PG hater", it's just that I feel WWE's had too many chances to get it right in the past few years. ...you just said WWE sucks and has done for years. It seems like you're trying to get a reaction from people rather than actually putting across any decent points.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,003
Member is Online
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 20, 2013 14:21:48 GMT -5
If you don't like that people have different opinions than you, the door's on your left.
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Oct 20, 2013 14:22:08 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 14:22:26 GMT -5
However you cast the same negative shadow by inferring that you can not explain why you may enjoy said product. The reason why I dislike WWE is not because it's "bad", but it's because they come so close to doing amazing things these days but come up short. It's more of a disappointment to see something I want to enjoy screw itself over. I'm not a "Cena hater" or a "PG hater", it's just that I feel WWE's had too many chances to get it right in the past few years. I can respect that, but you're speaking in terms which makes it seem a fact that no one can possibly enjoy the product. That it must be due to delusional thinking or idiocy or similar notions. I've criticised the WWE a HELL of a lot lately, I feel they've ruined a lot, enough to make me lose enjoyment & interest in following the product properly. However I also realise that people watching it have reasons for it, and I know from glancing at the Raw threads (and participating every other week) that our posters watch the show because they largely enjoy it, not in an ironic or addict of media sense, but because it pleases them. I can respect you not enjoying the product and the fact you listed reasons why you and feel the WWE flush things down the toilet too regularly (not many of us will argue against that, in fact I feel most of us will agree wholeheartedly), but the notion that others can't find things to enjoy in a product that they do currently enjoy is where the problem lies in your opening post.
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Post by AnActualBear on Oct 20, 2013 14:22:46 GMT -5
10 page thread in 3,2,1...
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Oct 20, 2013 14:25:17 GMT -5
The reason why I dislike WWE is not because it's "bad", but it's because they come so close to doing amazing things these days but come up short. It's more of a disappointment to see something I want to enjoy screw itself over. I'm not a "Cena hater" or a "PG hater", it's just that I feel WWE's had too many chances to get it right in the past few years. ...you just said WWE sucks and has done for years. It seems like you're trying to get a reaction from people rather than actually putting across any decent points. WWE's been bad because it's screwed up so much. There's a difference between just being "bad" and having so much potential only to just squander it. The latter is what stings more.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Oct 20, 2013 14:26:35 GMT -5
The reason why I dislike WWE is not because it's "bad", but it's because they come so close to doing amazing things these days but come up short. It's more of a disappointment to see something I want to enjoy screw itself over. I'm not a "Cena hater" or a "PG hater", it's just that I feel WWE's had too many chances to get it right in the past few years. I can respect that, but you're speaking in terms which makes it seem a fact that no one can possibly enjoy the product. That it must be due to delusional thinking or idiocy or similar notions. I've criticised the WWE a HELL of a lot lately, I feel they've ruined a lot, enough to make lose enjoyment & interest in following the product properly. However I also realise that people watching it have reasons for it, and I know from glancing at the Raw threads (and participating every other week) that our posters watch the show because they largely enjoy it, not in an ironic or addict of media sense, but because it pleases them. I can respect you not enjoying the product and the fact you listed reasons why you and feel the WWE flush things down the toilet too regularly (not many of us will argue against that, in fact I feel most of us will agree wholeheartedly), but the notion that others can't find things to enjoy in a product that they do currently enjoy is where the problem lies in your opening post. I don't hate anyone for their opinion, I just can't see how people can defend the product, not just like the product.
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Post by Kayfabe FAN don't want none on Oct 20, 2013 14:28:20 GMT -5
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Oct 20, 2013 14:30:32 GMT -5
If you don't watch, why do you care? You wanna know why people defend WWE? Because this is a discussion board. That's what we do. We don't just say "THIS SUCKS" and leave it at that. We give our own opinions on the matter at hand. If you like it, say so! If you don't like it, explain why! If you disagree with someone, have a discussion with them! Contrary to what some people think, this ain't no hivemind. We are a community made up of various people with various preferences. That's what makes this place so fun. The second a forum becomes a hivemind and everyone agrees with everyone else is when a forum dies. I was staff of a site it happened to, threads never made it past two pages. It was kind of sad, nobody ever got to see a different side to anything or understand why people thought that way. A very strange and kinda boring experience seeing almost everyone say the same thing only in their unique little way. Oh, and whilst we are posting differing opinions. The Attitude Era mostly sucked and Rock n Wrestling era is really boring to watch past promos.
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