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Post by Super Weak Machine on Nov 11, 2013 22:15:54 GMT -5
I also never understood why someone in the Anaconda Vice doesn't just use his free hand to punch the other guy in the head until he lets go of the hold. Tenzan remedied that when he invented the Anaconda Cross where he traps the other arm.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2013 23:59:22 GMT -5
The Rock Bottom is a heavily modified version of a Ura-nage judo throw. It either works with a height/leverage advantage; in that you, the taller judoka, can use that angle to simply fall forward with a controlled landing, and they, your opponent, will be carried downward via the momentum. The more traditional throws though are utilized by sweeping the back leg simultaneously, thus destroying any and all chance to block, or by using the Gi for extra leverage. Nope. All of this is wrong. Ura-Nage is closer to a backdrop suplex. than anything else, it looks nothing like a Rock Bottom. Hell, Osoto-Gari is the closest thing to a rock bottom and that's an STO. I've been doing judo a few years and whenever a wrestling fan says a rock bottom is basically a ura-nage I sort of wonder if they've ever actually SEEN a ura-nage. You don't see a lot of guys sweeping a leg for it either, because then you're doing more of a tani otoshi. Though you sometimes see dude's fire a quick kick up to load them onto the hips, but I wouldn't call it a sweep. In competition (hard to see the technique in most of this): www.youtube.com/watch?v=C02lKP24XhEA traditional demonstration: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI1obnWrTdI
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 0:02:27 GMT -5
The "missing a dropkick messes you up" thing has always made sense to me. Just like it's easy to fall down from a standing up position but tripping sucks I'd never considered this before. Great explanation.
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Post by jjdash on Nov 12, 2013 0:17:14 GMT -5
The Rock Bottom is a heavily modified version of a Ura-nage judo throw. It either works with a height/leverage advantage; in that you, the taller judoka, can use that angle to simply fall forward with a controlled landing, and they, your opponent, will be carried downward via the momentum. The more traditional throws though are utilized by sweeping the back leg simultaneously, thus destroying any and all chance to block, or by using the Gi for extra leverage. Nope. All of this is wrong. Ura-Nage is closer to a backdrop suplex. than anything else, it looks nothing like a Rock Bottom. Hell, Osoto-Gari is the closest thing to a rock bottom and that's an STO. I've been doing judo a few years and whenever a wrestling fan says a rock bottom is basically a ura-nage I sort of wonder if they've ever actually SEEN a ura-nage. You don't see a lot of guys sweeping a leg for it either, because then you're doing more of a tani otoshi. Though you sometimes see dude's fire a quick kick up to load them onto the hips, but I wouldn't call it a sweep. In competition (hard to see the technique in most of this): www.youtube.com/watch?v=C02lKP24XhEA traditional demonstration: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI1obnWrTdII'm trying to figure this out... So a RB is definitely not a Ura-Nage. It is a side slam. In a judo Ura-Nage (like in those videos) you wouldn't really get your head over the guys arm like if you are setting up a RB. In pro wrestling I would call this a Saito Suplex.. Thoughts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 0:20:25 GMT -5
Saito Suplex would be pretty good for the most common types of ura-nage, yeah. You can see it pretty well in that second video.
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Chip
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Post by Chip on Nov 12, 2013 0:26:27 GMT -5
Code Blue never really made much sense, I'm sure if you got a hold that gave you more leverage it'd make sense but it always just looked like the guy would flip over his opponent for no reason.
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SEAN CARLESS
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More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 12, 2013 0:30:51 GMT -5
The Rock Bottom is a heavily modified version of a Ura-nage judo throw. It either works with a height/leverage advantage; in that you, the taller judoka, can use that angle to simply fall forward with a controlled landing, and they, your opponent, will be carried downward via the momentum. The more traditional throws though are utilized by sweeping the back leg simultaneously, thus destroying any and all chance to block, or by using the Gi for extra leverage. Nope. All of this is wrong. Ura-Nage is closer to a backdrop suplex. than anything else, it looks nothing like a Rock Bottom. Hell, Osoto-Gari is the closest thing to a rock bottom and that's an STO. I've been doing judo a few years and whenever a wrestling fan says a rock bottom is basically a ura-nage I sort of wonder if they've ever actually SEEN a ura-nage. You don't see a lot of guys sweeping a leg for it either, because then you're doing more of a tani otoshi. Though you sometimes see dude's fire a quick kick up to load them onto the hips, but I wouldn't call it a sweep. In competition (hard to see the technique in most of this): www.youtube.com/watch?v=C02lKP24XhEA traditional demonstration: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI1obnWrTdIThanks for the clarification, man. I appreciate it.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Nov 12, 2013 3:22:58 GMT -5
I always hated the playmaker/play of the day/overdrive. The whole set up just looks silly.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Nov 12, 2013 7:11:23 GMT -5
The Rock Bottom is a heavily modified version of a Ura-nage judo throw. It either works with a height/leverage advantage; in that you, the taller judoka, can use that angle to simply fall forward with a controlled landing, and they, your opponent, will be carried downward via the momentum. The more traditional throws though are utilized by sweeping the back leg simultaneously, thus destroying any and all chance to block, or by using the Gi for extra leverage. Nope. All of this is wrong. Ura-Nage is closer to a backdrop suplex. than anything else, it looks nothing like a Rock Bottom. Hell, Osoto-Gari is the closest thing to a rock bottom and that's an STO. I've been doing judo a few years and whenever a wrestling fan says a rock bottom is basically a ura-nage I sort of wonder if they've ever actually SEEN a ura-nage. You don't see a lot of guys sweeping a leg for it either, because then you're doing more of a tani otoshi. Though you sometimes see dude's fire a quick kick up to load them onto the hips, but I wouldn't call it a sweep. In competition (hard to see the technique in most of this): www.youtube.com/watch?v=C02lKP24XhEA traditional demonstration: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI1obnWrTdIWow, I didn't know that. With Samoe Joe doing a similar move ( ST-Joe) to the Rock Bottom and with the commentators always calling it an Ura-nage (unless they're calling it an ST-Joe) I always presumed that was the real name for the move. Had no idea that it's not really anything like that and is actually more like a backdrop suplex!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 7:53:10 GMT -5
It's like, my biggest nerdy pet peeve in wrestling. It doesn't make a little bit of sense. Ura-nage means something close to "throw to behind" dagnabbit. I blame wrestling commentators.
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Post by jjdash on Nov 12, 2013 19:01:18 GMT -5
It's like, my biggest nerdy pet peeve in wrestling. It doesn't make a little bit of sense. Ura-nage means something close to "throw to behind" dagnabbit. I blame wrestling commentators. They are bad with moves with foreign names. Like when Cole says 'Enzuigiri to the back of the head'. By definition an Enzuigiri is an attack to the back of the head. It's like saying 'a spinebuster right to the spine.'
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Post by The Shareholder is nude on Nov 12, 2013 23:55:01 GMT -5
So if you had broke your friends neck or back or injured her permanently that would have been.......cool?.....hip?......funky?....or blindingly and utterly stupid?
There is a reason wrestlers are...ya know....trained...and why people with NO training at all should never attempt such lunacy...especially when drunk.
Disclosure: My best friends kid is paralyzed because his !@##% idiot friend pile drove him while they were goofing off. Crap like this really pisses me off.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 13, 2013 0:19:28 GMT -5
It's like, my biggest nerdy pet peeve in wrestling. It doesn't make a little bit of sense. Ura-nage means something close to "throw to behind" dagnabbit. I blame wrestling commentators. They are bad with moves with foreign names. Like when Cole says 'Enzuigiri to the back of the head'. By definition an Enzuigiri is an attack to the back of the head. It's like saying 'a spinebuster right to the spine.' Eh, Cole's Enzuigiri to the back of the head to me is the Sahara Desert of announcing, a redundancy that is ridiculous to the point of being almost indearing in a way.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Nov 13, 2013 0:48:51 GMT -5
The guy who splashes does get hurt some, but he bounces up to open air. THe victim is crushed between the attacker and the mat. any move with rotation uses centrifugal force I can buy the 450 adding momentum, but the SSP actually has the guy spinning AWAY from the person he is landing on. Look at how Billy Kidman does it. He's leading with his pectoral muscles so that the momentum and power of his entire body is thrusting them into his opponent. It makes sense.
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Nov 13, 2013 0:53:04 GMT -5
To whoever asked about Anaconda Vice, you can't really fight out of it because you're in a blood choke. IRL if someone got it in (Which itself suuspends disbelief if the defender has any submission training) you'd have to immediately start punching or you'd be too faint to break out.
As someone who used to do it as a kid to his friends who certainly weren't cooperating much, the Canadian destroyer is possible, but you're more likely to land on your tailbone.
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Post by Super Weak Machine on Nov 13, 2013 6:22:48 GMT -5
To whoever asked about Anaconda Vice, you can't really fight out of it because you're in a blood choke. IRL if someone got it in (Which itself suuspends disbelief if the defender has any submission training) you'd have to immediately start punching or you'd be too faint to break out. It's not that far-fetched to lock it in from kesa gatame, but even then, you're essentially just working an armlock since kesa gatame is usually just a pinning hold.
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Lt. Palumbo
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Post by Lt. Palumbo on Nov 13, 2013 7:33:53 GMT -5
When you guys are talking about catapults and slingshots are you talking about the same move? Sort of falling back and holding my opponents legs to launch him into the corner or whatever?
Yeah, that's fairly unbelievable, but what about that move (possibly what either catapult or slingshot referes to) where the opponent is on the apron and you bring them into the ring by.....pulling on the ring rope.
Even as a kid watching Hogan do it to Slaughter or whoever, it was fairly hard to buy/fathom.
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Post by rowdy426 on Nov 13, 2013 7:57:22 GMT -5
I like topics like this...
One thing that has been stressed on me in my training is to make the "fight" look as legit as possible. Therefore, we are discouraged from throwing too many punches. Why, you may ask? Punch someone in the face as hard as you can 3 times in a row. There's either a broken hand, a broken jaw or both. Punches belong on this list as much as anything else.
Irish whips can look convincing, but you have to do it right... guys like Konnan, who send them off to set up for his tumbling clothesline irk me. He maybe takes a baby step in an 18 ft ring to throw the guy, while he stays back so he can hit his side of the ropes and do his tumble. The idea is to follow through with the whip, not actually letting go and pushing off until half way across, and depending on the size of the ring, maybe even closer to 3/4, so you can be right there on the guy to hit him right as he comes off rather than hanging back and have him running several steps.
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