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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 19, 2013 16:05:52 GMT -5
They deserved that bad number. Everything from the build to the actual show was rotten.
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Post by KobashiChop on Dec 19, 2013 16:47:01 GMT -5
You had a guy get incredibly hot to the point where he won the title clean on Summerslam. They took the belt away from him, screwed him over repeatedly, and then took him away from the title picture without getting clean retribution at any point.
In NO WRESTLING PROMOTION EVER does this make sense. Forget whether he is an internet darling or not. Imagine Hogan being booked like this, Macho, Bret, HBK, Stone Cold, Rock. It's a shitty way to book an up and coming main eventer, and there is no counter debate. They deserve shitty buyrates for the insufferable "we know whats best" mentality.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Dec 19, 2013 16:47:14 GMT -5
Plus the screwy finishes haven't helped, I know they've been using them to try and get heat, but too many PPV's in a row didn't need screwy finishes, then the one where a screwy finish would have worked had a clean finish. Agreed. Screwy finishes belong on TV and definitive results/clean endings should be on PPV.
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 41,015
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Dec 19, 2013 18:42:51 GMT -5
"Big Show, knock yourself out!"
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Dec 19, 2013 18:50:17 GMT -5
So, where's all the talk about how it's unfair to blame declining PPV buyrates on any individual performers?
See, people, this is why Daniel Bryan's "burial" involves him still being heavily featured in the main event angle even though he isn't actually headlining PPVs, while Big Show has instantly vanished into a midcard tag team act.
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Post by Andy Martin on Dec 19, 2013 18:53:08 GMT -5
I think the overall product is to blame. WWE have really shifted this year from a variety sketch show with wrestling on it to a show with only Wrestling and nothing else. People don't want to see a toned down version of 80's NWA crossed with WCW circa 1998 no matter how much Triple H is a fan of the NWA. Hell they only seem to run like 1 storyline at a time now (if you're not involved in the Authority storyline you don't get a storyline), they are far too event driven at the moment, WWE seems to of forgotten the importance in characters. Plus the screwy finishes haven't helped, I know they've been using them to try and get heat, but too many PPV's in a row didn't need screwy finishes, then the one where a screwy finish would have worked had a clean finish. I think you're bang on the money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 19:05:04 GMT -5
You had a guy get incredibly hot to the point where he won the title clean on Summerslam. They took the belt away from him, screwed him over repeatedly, and then took him away from the title picture without getting clean retribution at any point. In NO WRESTLING PROMOTION EVER does this make sense. Forget whether he is an internet darling or not. Imagine Hogan being booked like this, Macho, Bret, HBK, Stone Cold, Rock. It's a shitty way to book an up and coming main eventer, and there is no counter debate. They deserve shitty buyrates for the insufferable "we know whats best" mentality. I'm going to be the one with the counter debate They're having him rise up only to fall short/get screwed over to build sympathy for him so that when he does finally win the title and hold it the moment is made that much sweeter. It's working as evident by the fact the fans chant Bryan's name during segments he's not involved in. And people forget when Stone Cold started getting over he wasn't pushed to the moon, they let it organically grow (albeit alot faster than Bryan, but you have to bear in mind in them days everything was accelerated compared to nowadays when they do things a bit slower) Plus it kind of makes the fans feel a part of Bryans success as they have been chanting for him through all his downs, so once he hits an up everyone is going to feel so proud of the person they believed in and rooted for. I think Bryan along with the tag team divison are the two things WWE are handling correctly at the moment. I didn't word this very elegantly but I think the gist of it is there.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 19, 2013 19:11:51 GMT -5
And people forget when Stone Cold started getting over he wasn't pushed to the moon, they let it organically grow (albeit alot faster than Bryan, but you have to bear in mind in them days everything was accelerated compared to nowadays when they do things a bit slower) I think this is a great argument to make like, in June 2010, when he got fired but people assumed he would come back. Like Stone Cold around Summer 1996, he had a cult following in the company, had been around for like 6 months, was recognized for his talent by a growing number of fans, and seemed to be unrecognized/mistreated. But Bryan has been really really over since Wrestlemania 28/the Punk/AJ stuff, and this argument is crazy to make now, imo.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Dec 19, 2013 19:18:02 GMT -5
"PERSONAL ISSUES DRAW MONEY."
Big Show didn't have a feud with Orton. It was with Triple H. But yeah, don't make them wrestle. That's too logical.
And Cena vs Del Rio? Um yeah, nobody will ever care about that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 19:19:46 GMT -5
And people forget when Stone Cold started getting over he wasn't pushed to the moon, they let it organically grow (albeit alot faster than Bryan, but you have to bear in mind in them days everything was accelerated compared to nowadays when they do things a bit slower) I think this is a great argument to make like, in June 2010, when he got fired but people assumed he would come back. Like Stone Cold around Summer 1996, he had a cult following in the company, had been around for like 6 months, was recognized for his talent by a growing number of fans, and seemed to be unrecognized/mistreated. But Bryan has been really really over since Wrestlemania 28/the Punk/AJ stuff, and this argument is crazy to make now, imo. From the birth of Austin 3:16 in June 1996. he Didn't win the title till the Mania in 1998. They did give him a title shot at Mania 1997 and he came close to winning it, but he was made to look strong, refusing to tap out and losing because he passed out. Granted he was the main attraction and the most over star on the roster before he won the title, but he wasn't given the ball to roll with until 98. In fact Austin had a tag time title run and IC title (the equivalent of the WHC at the time) in between KOTR 96 and WM 98, sound familiar? So that's almost 2 years between Austin 3:16 and his title win, we're hitting the 2 year anniversary of 18 seconds (the birth of the fans getting behind "Yes") in April.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 19, 2013 19:24:01 GMT -5
I think this is a great argument to make like, in June 2010, when he got fired but people assumed he would come back. Like Stone Cold around Summer 1996, he had a cult following in the company, had been around for like 6 months, was recognized for his talent by a growing number of fans, and seemed to be unrecognized/mistreated. But Bryan has been really really over since Wrestlemania 28/the Punk/AJ stuff, and this argument is crazy to make now, imo. I was on about the birth of Austin 3:16 in June 1996. he Didn't win the title till the Mania in 1998. They did give him a title shot at Mania 1997 and he came close to winning it, but he was made to look strong, refusing to tap out and losing because he passed out. Granted he was the main attraction and the most over star on the roster before he won the title, but he wasn't given the ball to roll with until 98. In fact Austin had a tag time title run in between KOTR 96 and WM 98, sound familiar? So that's almost 2 years between Austin 3:16 and his title win, we're hitting the 2 year anniversary of 18 seconds (the birth of the fans getting behind "Yes") in April. Could also be worth bringing up that Austin spent most of that time being a crazy badass one step ahead of everyone (except for when he was overcoming incredible obstacles and still fighting to the end), and Bryan's been presented as an idiot doofus who gets laid out every week and needs John Cena to talk for him and fight his battles. If they go ahead and actually put Bryan over, great, that's awesome. Even if they do, that still doesn't excuse the complete bullshit and counterproductive booking of him on the way there. What they've done with Bryan has been a lot different than, say, having Austin beat Bret via DQ at the IYH after WM13 or drawing with Shawn at KOTR, or fighting through a legit neck injury.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 19:26:53 GMT -5
Could also be worth bringing up that Austin spent most of that time being a crazy badass one step ahead of everyone (except for when he was overcoming incredible obstacles and still fighting to the end), and Bryan's been presented as an idiot doofus who gets laid out every week and needs John Cena to talk for him and fight his battles. If they go ahead and actually put Bryan over, great, that's awesome. Even if they do, that still doesn't excuse the complete bullshit and counterproductive booking of him on the way there. Yeah Bryan's been made to look nowhere near as strong as Austin was. But that was a different time and a different character. Bryan works better as an underdog and is being booked accordingly, Austin's character was never meant to be an underdog so he wasn't booked like one.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 19, 2013 19:29:04 GMT -5
Could also be worth bringing up that Austin spent most of that time being a crazy badass one step ahead of everyone (except for when he was overcoming incredible obstacles and still fighting to the end), and Bryan's been presented as an idiot doofus who gets laid out every week and needs John Cena to talk for him and fight his battles. If they go ahead and actually put Bryan over, great, that's awesome. Even if they do, that still doesn't excuse the complete bullshit and counterproductive booking of him on the way there. Yeah Bryan's been made to look nowhere near as strong as Austin was. But that was a different time and a different character. Bryan works better as an underdog and is being booked accordingly, Austin's character was never meant to be an underdog so he wasn't booked like one. It was a different time alright, back when wrestling companies still minded some fundamental principles of wrestling booking. I think there's a difference between being an underdog and being a joke. I think Machine Gun Kelly said it best, "Tonight, millions are people around the world are tuning in to see one of the biggest egos get beat by one of the biggest underdogs. An underdog is a person in a fight who is not expected to win. That's me, an underdog is Machine Gun Kelly. An underdog is John Cena."
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MrBRulzOK
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Dec 19, 2013 19:31:34 GMT -5
A combination of factors at play here I imagine.
- Going from Daniel Bryan to the Big Show as the face in the main event program. - Being another show following the stretch of mediocre pay per views with horrible or meaningless finishes. - WWE just being no good at building non Wrestlemania pay per views nowadays, it seems.
Yeah, they really should've expected this.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 19, 2013 19:32:46 GMT -5
95,000 North America 84,000 International 179,000 total -F4W Well, that answers definitively whether its Bryan who caused the buyrate drop, or WWE's shitty booking of the Authority angle over all. They had Cena in a top slot, and Orton vs Show, and they *still* did this number. I think it's time to rethink the structure of that angle entirely; or maybe do something drastic, creatively. The status quo can't even draw anymore. Not a good sign.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Dec 19, 2013 19:37:09 GMT -5
Nah I foresee big things for this new era of not giving a shit about wins, losses, storylines, continuity, entertaining things or anything. Just keep everybody taking selfies during matches and doing a bunch of shit because and blah blah blah whatever the f*** and who knows where this could go. Let's wait and see, guys.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Dec 19, 2013 19:43:04 GMT -5
So could this have been the LAST Survivor Series?
It was originally taken off the 2013 PPV last year for a time IIRC. Certainly this buyrate won;t do the PPV any favors.
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Post by cool guy on Dec 19, 2013 19:43:33 GMT -5
95,000 North America 84,000 International 179,000 total -F4W Well, that answers definitively whether its Bryan who caused the buyrate drop, or WWE's shitty booking of the Authority angle over all. They had Cena in a top slot, and Orton vs Show, and they *still* did this number. I think it's time to rethink the structure of that angle entirely; or maybe do something drastic, creatively. The status quo can't even draw anymore. Not a good sign. The way that's phrased makes it seem like you're saying Orton vs. Show should have drawn if the angle was better. That's ridiculous, no one wants to see Big Show in the main event in 2013.
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Post by Instant Classic on Dec 19, 2013 19:46:00 GMT -5
99% of the time I hate when WWE does bad, but damn they deserve this.
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Post by JTG Fan on Dec 19, 2013 19:47:07 GMT -5
So could this have been the LAST Survivor Series? It was originally taken off the 2013 PPV last year for a time IIRC. Certainly this buyrate won;t do the PPV any favors. Honestly, I could care less if they get rid of all 'traditional' SS elimination matches, I just desperately want them to keep the PPV name. It would be like a knife in the heart to see it scrapped after 26 years in favor of "WWE Triple Threat" or some other bullshit.
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