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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 1, 2014 10:25:39 GMT -5
I wonder if it's just the latest in a new fad of revisionism of female villains.
The Wicked Witch was made sympathetic in "Wicked". The Evil Queen was made evil because men exploited her in "Snow White and...Thor" and now Maleficient gets a reimagination along the same lines.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Jun 1, 2014 12:27:37 GMT -5
The Evil Queen was made evil because men exploited her in "Snow White and...Thor" TBF, Snow would be a better love interest than Natalie Portman. I want to say the whole "anti-hero"/"shades of grey" thing was a product of the '90s that never went away. Or am I using wrestling's timeline on everything?
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Jun 1, 2014 12:28:27 GMT -5
Maleficent invented Chris Jericho.
Maleficent won the WHC at WM20.
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Post by Cela on Jun 1, 2014 14:49:41 GMT -5
I wonder if it's just the latest in a new fad of revisionism of female villains. The Wicked Witch was made sympathetic in "Wicked". The Evil Queen was made evil because men exploited her in "Snow White and...Thor" and now Maleficient gets a reimagination along the same lines. Don't forget the Wicked Witch only turning evil because James Franco slept with her in Oz:TGAP. And Once Upon a Time making the Evil Queen more sympathetic, but still waaaaaaaaaaaaay overreacting, and at the wrong people, and still f***ing evil! But with a soft heart. And GAH! KILL HER ALREADY! (note: only saw two seasons on netflix)
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jun 1, 2014 15:04:44 GMT -5
Every villain has a sympathetic backstory.
Even bloody Satan has a sympathetic backstory if read in the right light.
That's what makes them a worse villain - that they went so evil for something anyone else would just get drunk over and then move on.
Granted, this film is poor in it's treatment of the villain for other reasons, but had they just added a reason for her being evil (and not then gone on to make her a hero and all the rest) and then played out the normal Sleeping Beauty story, that wouldn't really have been an issue.
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Post by Red Impact on Jun 1, 2014 15:45:21 GMT -5
Every villain has a sympathetic backstory. Even bloody Satan has a sympathetic backstory if read in the right light. That's what makes them a worse villain - that they went so evil for something anyone else would just get drunk over and then move on. Granted, this film is poor in it's treatment of the villain for other reasons, but had they just added a reason for her being evil (and not then gone on to make her a hero and all the rest) and then played out the normal Sleeping Beauty story, that wouldn't really have been an issue. Freddy Krueger? I mean, yeah, he was burned alive, but he was burned alive for being a sexual predator on children.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jun 1, 2014 15:49:06 GMT -5
Every villain has a sympathetic backstory. Even bloody Satan has a sympathetic backstory if read in the right light. That's what makes them a worse villain - that they went so evil for something anyone else would just get drunk over and then move on. Granted, this film is poor in it's treatment of the villain for other reasons, but had they just added a reason for her being evil (and not then gone on to make her a hero and all the rest) and then played out the normal Sleeping Beauty story, that wouldn't really have been an issue. Freddy Krueger? I mean, yeah, he was burned alive, but he was burned alive for being a sexual predator on children. The funny thing is the reboot looked like it was going to make him sympathetic, cause until the very end of the film where he essentially goes, "Nah, I really did kill those kids and I'm evil as f***." the film was making it look like he was just a misunderstood creepy guy who was wrongly killed for the deaths of the little kids.
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Legion
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Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Jun 1, 2014 15:50:43 GMT -5
Every villain has a sympathetic backstory. Even bloody Satan has a sympathetic backstory if read in the right light. That's what makes them a worse villain - that they went so evil for something anyone else would just get drunk over and then move on. Granted, this film is poor in it's treatment of the villain for other reasons, but had they just added a reason for her being evil (and not then gone on to make her a hero and all the rest) and then played out the normal Sleeping Beauty story, that wouldn't really have been an issue. Freddy Krueger? I mean, yeah, he was burned alive, but he was burned alive for being a sexual predator on children. That revenge element is still a sympathetic backstory, it isn't going to make you sympathetic towards him unless you happen to be a child abuser, but it is still a step up from just being a naturally evil being.
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Post by Red Impact on Jun 1, 2014 15:54:31 GMT -5
Freddy Krueger? I mean, yeah, he was burned alive, but he was burned alive for being a sexual predator on children. That revenge element is still a sympathetic backstory, it isn't going to make you sympathetic towards him unless you happen to be a child abuser, but it is still a step up from just being a naturally evil being. Only if you consider revenge happening to a terrible person who did far worse as the basis of something sympathetic. It's different for a villain who was innocent and twisted to becoming evil, but for a guy who made that leap on his own, it's not really so much.
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Injustice45
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Post by Injustice45 on Jun 1, 2014 16:02:28 GMT -5
Maleficent's lips became the norm for DSL. She also told Peter Parker that "With great power, comes great responsibility."
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Legion
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Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Jun 1, 2014 16:08:02 GMT -5
That revenge element is still a sympathetic backstory, it isn't going to make you sympathetic towards him unless you happen to be a child abuser, but it is still a step up from just being a naturally evil being. Only if you consider revenge happening to a terrible person who did far worse as the basis of something sympathetic. It's different for a villain who was innocent and twisted to becoming evil, but for a guy who made that leap on his own, it's not really so much. I suppose that opens a can of worms on Freddie's psyche and whether him being a child molester makes him evil, or a tragic figure trapped by his sexual urges that he cannot conquer alone and cannot seek help for fear of the stigmata and prejudice that comes with admitting such a thing..... Yeah, that's a real stretch, but it still a valid point, and an interesting one from a psychological stand point in regards paedophiles and public condemnation....but that likely isn't a topic for FAN.
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Jun 1, 2014 16:09:42 GMT -5
Maleficent guided Luke to destroy the Death Star? I think somebody forgot a few things! She also taught him how to use the force (twice! But we'll talk sequels on another day) and saved his ass from Darth Vader when he was flying down that trench!
Maleficent also took Frodo to Mount Doom, using her wings, of course, and helped him drop the One Ring into it's fiery chasms. Right afterwards she singlehandedly defeated Sauron, Sauruman, Smaug, and the Balrog who'd all been resurrected by that jealous asshole, Gandolf. You see, Gandolf didn't actually have any magical powers, that was all Maleficent. He was just mad and jealous that Frodo liked Maleficent more than him so he resurrected four of the big evils of Middle Earth to show how big a man he was. Luckily, Maleficent beat them all, single handed.
After this, Maleficent taught Peter Parker that with Great Power, comes Great Responsibility, and she guided the radioactive spider to bite him. Little known fact, but over the decades, it's actually been Maleficent and her magic that has overcome all of Spider-man's foes.
Rambo didn't do crap to escape from that prison camp in Vietnam, he was actually saved by Maleficent.
Maleficent forged all of the Sailor Scouts equipment and taught the Sailor Moon's mother how to use them so that she could teach the Sailor Scouts how to use them. Maleficent also defeated Tuxedo Mask, because it turns out Queen Beryle was awesome and loving, and that Tuxedo mask was just pretending to love Sailor Moon so that he could steal her throne.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 1, 2014 16:10:33 GMT -5
Maleficient did all that shit that Brian Boitano did in South Park......but BETTER!
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Post by Red Impact on Jun 1, 2014 16:31:35 GMT -5
Only if you consider revenge happening to a terrible person who did far worse as the basis of something sympathetic. It's different for a villain who was innocent and twisted to becoming evil, but for a guy who made that leap on his own, it's not really so much. I suppose that opens a can of worms on Freddie's psyche and whether him being a child molester makes him evil, or a tragic figure trapped by his sexual urges that he cannot conquer alone and cannot seek help for fear of the stigmata and prejudice that comes with admitting such a thing..... Yeah, that's a real stretch, but it still a valid point, and an interesting one from a psychological stand point in regards paedophiles and public condemnation....but that likely isn't a topic for FAN. Actually, reading Koda's post made me realize that I mispoke on him. He was a straight up child murderer, so even if you wanted to open a discussion on sexual urges and the ability to control them, he still killed kids and escaped prosecution due to a loophole. I don't think there's any sort of psychological justification where that backstory would be considered sympathetic.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jun 1, 2014 16:38:42 GMT -5
I wonder if it's just the latest in a new fad of revisionism of female villains. The Wicked Witch was made sympathetic in "Wicked". The Evil Queen was made evil because men exploited her in "Snow White and...Thor" and now Maleficient gets a reimagination along the same lines. Yes but at least "Wicked" was good.
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andrew8798
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on 24/7 this month
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Post by andrew8798 on Jun 1, 2014 16:41:00 GMT -5
Movie did 70 million this weekend
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Jun 1, 2014 16:54:59 GMT -5
I wonder if it's just the latest in a new fad of revisionism of female villains. The Wicked Witch was made sympathetic in "Wicked". The Evil Queen was made evil because men exploited her in "Snow White and...Thor" and now Maleficient gets a reimagination along the same lines. Don't forget the Wicked Witch only turning evil because James Franco slept with her in Oz:TGAP. And Once Upon a Time making the Evil Queen more sympathetic, but still waaaaaaaaaaaaay overreacting, and at the wrong people, and still f***ing evil! But with a soft heart. And GAH! KILL HER ALREADY! (note: only saw two seasons on netflix) I will have no one hating on my sweet Lana Parrilla. Her tweener role = 100000x better than the cut-and-paste job they did to Maleficent. Question...do you think the movie could have been saved if somehow they revealed at the end that Mal was the narrator, and that she told her version of the story, meanwhile we see that she seized power and the kingdom is in ruins? (would be a minor mindf***, and could fit the "winners write history" trope)
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Jun 1, 2014 16:59:52 GMT -5
Speaking of Wicked, I Hope Kristin Chenoweth is good as Mal...but it's a Disney Channel kids' show, so.... ? As for unforgivable villains, like I said before: RED SKULL. Just as despicable as Hitler...and he didn't have a movie where people could humanize him with funny subtitles. /Crossbones is playing antics on me! /CROSSBONES! CROSSBONES!! CROSSBONES!!!!
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Jun 1, 2014 17:00:50 GMT -5
Maleficent gave Hulk Hogan vitamins, and was his personal trainer and spiritual advisor.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Jun 1, 2014 17:01:51 GMT -5
Movie did 70 million this weekend That's because Maleficent became president and saved our economy so we could spend more money going to movies!
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