tms
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,901
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Post by tms on Mar 23, 2015 22:50:07 GMT -5
Dude just isn't that great. Bottom line.
I don't see what he has in terms of talent over guys with 1/10th of his push and similar size like Swagger, Cesaro, Harper, Rowan, etc. aside from "the look."
This has to be the most transparent forced push in such a short span of time I've ever seen, especially for a babyface.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Mar 23, 2015 22:51:00 GMT -5
Also at the time there was a brand split and the other young guys billed as the future of the company were Batista, Orton, and maybe Edge. Reigns doesn't have a brand split and there is Daniel Bryan, Ziggler, and Ambrose as more universally liked babyfaces from the crowd. Also in ring talent is more important then it is now and since WWE embraced social media, the IWC is a way bigger fanbase now then it was 10 years ago. Those night after mania crowds could of never existed ten years ago Yeah, and the WWE embraces social media in such a way, that the collective outrage expressed against Reigns is being seen by virtually EVERYONE who follows WWE through the same social media platforms that the WWE wants you to connect with. It's inescapable. At least in '05, wrestling discussion didn't filter through Reddit and Twitter and Youtube. It's remarkably different than those days. When people in the biz scoffed at the IWC ten years ago, it was because it was a fraction of the audience. Ten years later, they literally forced the WWE to change the main event of their Super Bowl just a month before it occurred. It's not fraction-sized anymore, it's much larger and getting louder by the year.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,060
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 23, 2015 22:51:22 GMT -5
Were you living under a rock since John Cenas been around? Cena was and is over, no matter which way you spin it. And hate if you want, but at least Cena can work far better than Reigns can. Only thing they share in common is the WWE's need to constantly make them look stronger than any and everyone. I'm not a Roman hater, but he's never had a reaction quite like Cena did when he was drafted to Raw. Never.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 22:54:50 GMT -5
Were you living under a rock since John Cenas been around? For reals I wasn't even watching when he became the man. But my understanding is that he was at least over when he won the damn title. But with Reigns, why? Do kids even like him? Does he sell a lot of merch? How many wishes has he granted? There's all these great business reasons with Cena, with Reigns there's...well? He's the Rock's cousin, he has a good look but he has potential, that's it. The problem is that they thought Reigns could be like Rock, you know, a guy who could rise to the occasion out of nowhere but he's not, Rock's special. It didn't work out.
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Post by Racksman on Mar 23, 2015 22:56:02 GMT -5
Cena was and is over, no matter which way you spin it. And hate if you want, but at least Cena can work far better than Reigns can. Only thing they share in common is the WWE's need to constantly make them look stronger than any and everyone. I'm not a Roman hater, but he's never had a reaction quite like Cena did when he was drafted to Raw. Never. I...didn't say he did? I'm supporting Cena in this.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 22:56:30 GMT -5
This Reigns deal is solid evidence that the old "The IWC is a very small, insignificant segment of the audience" and "fans don't care about workrate" adages are done.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,060
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 23, 2015 22:56:41 GMT -5
I'm not a Roman hater, but he's never had a reaction quite like Cena did when he was drafted to Raw. Never. I...didn't say he did? I'm supporting Cena in this. I know. I was just pointing out a fact.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Sparkybob on Mar 23, 2015 22:57:20 GMT -5
He also still sold a shitload of merchandise even when people were booing against him. Reigns doesn't have that. That's true too. We always hear from former wrestlers/agents/personnel that Vince can be stubborn. This has potential to be a textbook example of such. And it's a damn shame for Roman. I don't actually think he's being stubborn at all. If there is one thing I know about Vince, is when he gets behind a guy for a superstar push, he spares no expense to get them over. That just hasn't been the case post fast-lane. I've mention this in other threads but it wouldn't surprise in the slightest if Vince has soured on Roman since the Rumble and no longer sees him as 1-A babyface material anymore.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 22:57:58 GMT -5
For reals I wasn't even watching when he became the man. But my understanding is that he was at least over when he won the damn title. But with Reigns, why? Do kids even like him? Does he sell a lot of merch? How many wishes has he granted? There's all these great business reasons with Cena, with Reigns there's...well? He's the Rock's cousin, he has a good look but he has potential, that's it. The problem is that they thought Reigns could be like Rock, you know, a guy who could rise to the occasion out of nowhere but he's not, Rock's special. It didn't work out. I guess the whole thing was a big gamble and they busted, but they're riding it out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 23:01:35 GMT -5
He's the Rock's cousin, he has a good look but he has potential, that's it. The problem is that they thought Reigns could be like Rock, you know, a guy who could rise to the occasion out of nowhere but he's not, Rock's special. It didn't work out. I guess the whole thing was a big gamble and they busted, but they're riding it out. They only have to get through with the Lesnar match in order to see so we've got less than a week to go.
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Post by gnr123 on Mar 23, 2015 23:03:25 GMT -5
Either Brock retains, or Rollins cashed in. That's how I see WrestleMania ending.
I can't see anyway that Reigns win clean and that's it, I just can't. They've f***in' screwed this kid up so bad, that there's no way he's their next top guy. At least with when Cena was chosen as the top guy, he was massively over and sold a shit-ton of merchandise to warrant never turning heel. Reigns though, he's mid-card over, not main event over. That's the problem, he get's marginally good pops, but guys like Bryan and Ziggler, even the supposed monster heel Lesnar, get bigger pops.
They can try and stick with their guns like they did with Cena, but I don't think it's going to work out in the long-run.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,060
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 23, 2015 23:03:42 GMT -5
I guess the whole thing was a big gamble and they busted, but they're riding it out. They only have to get through with the Lesnar match in order to see so we've got less than a week to go. The problem I have is that Roman, even though I like him okay, just isn't believable enough to beat Lesnar. I just don't buy it. Though, Reigns winning with Heyman's help would make them the biggest heels in wrestling since Jericho in 2008.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Mar 23, 2015 23:09:46 GMT -5
Were you living under a rock since John Cenas been around? John Cena's rise was great. The aftermath was bad, and by that point, it was too late. God might as well smite Vince McMahon as he isn't getting the hint that Reigns is not right for any of this.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 23:10:17 GMT -5
They only have to get through with the Lesnar match in order to see so we've got less than a week to go. The problem I have is that Roman, even though I like him okay, just isn't believable enough to beat Lesnar. I just don't buy it. Though, Reigns winning with Heyman's help would make them the biggest heels in wrestling since Jericho in 2008. I agree, I just can't believe Reigns beating Lesnar without help. It doesn't make sense.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Mar 23, 2015 23:13:07 GMT -5
That's true too. We always hear from former wrestlers/agents/personnel that Vince can be stubborn. This has potential to be a textbook example of such. And it's a damn shame for Roman. I don't actually think he's being stubborn at all. If there is one thing I know about Vince, is when he gets behind a guy for a superstar push, he spares no expense to get them over. That just hasn't been the case post fast-lane. I've mention this in other threads but it wouldn't surprise in the slightest if Vince has soured on Roman since the Rumble and no longer sees him as 1-A babyface material anymore. That's what I mean though. Roman isn't 'The Guy' right now. But Vince created a world for him before he was ever ready. Lesnar's two year rampage was meant to be brought down by Reigns. Instead of rightfully calling an audible when it became clear his vision wasn't capable of being well-received, he stuck to it without concern of how it would be perceived. That to me is the textbook example of being stubborn. He's actually hurting his prize prospect by doing it his way. I look at it like this. If Roman is the guy Vince thinks he could be, then Roman has to prove it in the ring and on the mic. The contenders and pretenders are ALWAYS sorted out by the fans. To use Roman's swimming analogy he made the RAW after the Rumble, he's been thrown in the deep end of the pool. He's gonna have to learn how to swim real quick. If he's as good as we're told, he'll learn.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,060
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 23, 2015 23:13:10 GMT -5
The problem I have is that Roman, even though I like him okay, just isn't believable enough to beat Lesnar. I just don't buy it. Though, Reigns winning with Heyman's help would make them the biggest heels in wrestling since Jericho in 2008. I agree, I just can't believe Reigns being Lesnar without help. It doesn't make sense. I think Lesnar has been built up so much and is such a legit badass that anyone who beats him will need help. No one believes that anyone could beat him in a straight up fight without some kind of legit training that someone like Daniel Bryan has.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 23:17:38 GMT -5
I agree, I just can't believe Reigns being Lesnar without help. It doesn't make sense. I think Lesnar has been built up so much and is such a legit badass that anyone who beats him will need help. No one believes that anyone could beat him in a straight up fight without some kind of legit training that someone like Daniel Bryan has. I agree. It's just a new ballgame for Reigns right about now. I'm not sure what happened to him in the company's eyes but nah, this won't work out.
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Post by Neo: "The One" who CLAPS on Mar 23, 2015 23:23:13 GMT -5
I just watched the final segment of the go home Raw before WMXXX last year, where the crowd was super into Bryan.
I miss having a face who's super over, who deserves to main event 'Mania. And the thing is, if WWE had let Reigns character grow organically, and skipped doing the whole "YOU'LL LOVE HIM DAMMIT" thing, Reigns probably would have had strong reactions tonight, and would've still been over. But now, here we are, and Reigns is on the cusp of being the biggest failed push in WWE history. It's just sad, because Reigns looks like a star, and has a lot of potential, but it's all squandered thanks to idiotic booking. Just sad.
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Post by flowercity on Mar 23, 2015 23:25:45 GMT -5
I don't actually think he's being stubborn at all. If there is one thing I know about Vince, is when he gets behind a guy for a superstar push, he spares no expense to get them over. That just hasn't been the case post fast-lane. I've mention this in other threads but it wouldn't surprise in the slightest if Vince has soured on Roman since the Rumble and no longer sees him as 1-A babyface material anymore. I look at it like this. If Roman is the guy Vince thinks he could be, then Roman has to prove it in the ring and on the mic. The contenders and pretenders are ALWAYS sorted out by the fans. To use Roman's swimming analogy he made the RAW after the Rumble, he's been thrown in the deep end of the pool. He's gonna have to learn how to swim real quick. If he's as good as we're told, he'll learn. How long does he have though? Hasn't he been trying to swim since he came back from injury? The most telling thing about Reigns was the promo he did while he was out for injury on one of the PPVs. He had WEEKS to prepare for a minute or so spot and it was terrible. I have never thought Roman was too bad in the ring (better than Cena in 2005) but he is just not successful in the promo department. While I agree with many who say he should be booked as a silent ass-kicker, that can only go so far.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 23:34:07 GMT -5
I can appreciate that WWE are at least finishing what they started. Vince started on this road thinking that his unending genius would wriggle his way through to the finish line with everyone having to eat crow but it's not working. Roman might have the match of his life on Sunday, part of me still thinks the match can be a badass spectacle, we've seen it out of Reigns before but it's very difficult not to see this ultimately going in the books as a failure.
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