Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Mar 24, 2015 0:09:29 GMT -5
This Reigns deal is solid evidence that the old "The IWC is a very small, insignificant segment of the audience" and "fans don't care about workrate" adages are done. I dunno about the latter. Guys who are poor in the ring can get a pass if they're good on the mic. The problem with Reigns is that the WWE wants us to get behind him seemingly solely because he has a good look.
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Lancers
El Dandy
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Post by Lancers on Mar 24, 2015 0:17:52 GMT -5
How long does he have though? Hasn't he been trying to swim since he came back from injury? I think therein lies the problem. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes time to develop. I think the greatest example to illustrate my point is Roman's cousin. When he was Rocky Maivia, he was positioned for main event status. It was clear as day. But his character sucked. And sucked hard. When it was clear the character was failing in mid '97 right as the Attitude Era was about to enter in full swing, Rocky got hurt, returned from injury, promptly turned heel and became the Rock. The rest is history. This is why most fans are more critical of Vince than Roman. Roman has the tools, but they're not properly put together. If he is what he's supposed to be, he'll get there like the Rock. But the critical problem is he's simply not there now. Just like how Rocky Maivia wasn't there at Wrestlemania 13. What Vince has done is put Roman in the unenviable position of trying to get there when his identity hasn't been fully formed in the main event of Wrestlemania 31. Right now, Roman Reigns is Rocky Maivia.
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Post by Speedy Cerviche on Mar 24, 2015 0:39:23 GMT -5
They have to work around so much bullshit to push Roman Reigns into this spot. Can they really keep doing this after Mania? Yes. Stockholm syndrome will take care of the dissent eventually.
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Chainsaw
T
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It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on Mar 24, 2015 0:44:32 GMT -5
Were you living under a rock since John Cenas been around? In fairness, Cena was hot in 2005. He got the title at the right time. The problem was he feuded with IWC darlings like Angle, Jericho and Christian once he got to RAW, which sorta hurt him. Plus, Y2Cheap. Ugh. That was his sufferin' succotash moment. Absolutely this. It's the moment when I turned fully against Cena. When he made Benoit tap to his crap STF, I was done with the doof.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Mar 24, 2015 0:46:13 GMT -5
Yeah. Reigns just has nothing to warrant where he is.
And for those saying “the look"....I don't see it. Shield gear just....seems lame on a solo act. Any girl I know that watches wrestling doesn't find him particularly attractive.
I don't feel “it". He doesn't resonate. When he came out at the end of RAW, it didn't feel special.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Mar 24, 2015 0:51:14 GMT -5
How long does he have though? Hasn't he been trying to swim since he came back from injury? I think therein lies the problem. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes time to develop. I think the greatest example to illustrate my point is Roman's cousin. When he was Rocky Maivia, he was positioned for main event status. It was clear as day. But his character sucked. And sucked hard. When it was clear the character was failing in mid '97 right as the Attitude Era was about to enter in full swing, Rocky got hurt, returned from injury, promptly turned heel and became the Rock. The rest is history. This is why most fans are more critical of Vince than Roman. Roman has the tools, but they're not properly put together. If he is what he's supposed to be, he'll get there like the Rock. But the critical problem is he's simply not there now. Just like how Rocky Maivia wasn't there at Wrestlemania 13. What Vince has done is put Roman in the unenviable position of trying to get there when his identity hasn't been fully formed in the main event of Wrestlemania 31. Right now, Roman Reigns is Rocky Maivia. Honestly if Rocky Maivia was coming up nowadays, there probably never would've been a Rock. Steve Austin would've stayed as The Ringmaster, or at best been labeled as a failure after it flopped and stuck in the mid-card for life. Mick Foley would never have made it out of NXT if he was even hired in the first place. It's crazy that Vince just refuses to let guys go out there nowadays and be themselves. Everything has to be so micro-managed and sterile. And it's to the great detriment of the product, and has been for such a long time. And worse it's been like this for years. And he gives up on guys so easily, especially when they don't fit his antiquated idea of what a star should look like. And more often then not the guys who have that "look" he loves so much aren't ready for prime time. And they fail. Whether it was Chris Masters, Bobby Lashley, Diesel, Mason Ryan, or seemingly Roman Reigns If WWE in 2015 as it is was going head to head with WCW nowadays, they'd be getting their asses kicked.
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Jonathan Michaels
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Mar 24, 2015 0:59:22 GMT -5
They only have to get through with the Lesnar match in order to see so we've got less than a week to go. The problem I have is that Roman, even though I like him okay, just isn't believable enough to beat Lesnar. I just don't buy it. Though, Reigns winning with Heyman's help would make them the biggest heels in wrestling since Jericho in 2008. I agree about the believability of him beating Lesnar, though I stick to my guns that Bryan would be equally unbelievable. My thing now is, especially after the whole Henry thing, it almost seems like they are setting Reigns up for a fall, because the sell job is so cartoonish lay over the top as to be sarcastic.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
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Post by Lancers on Mar 24, 2015 1:03:53 GMT -5
Honestly if Rocky Maivia was coming up nowadays, there probably never would've been a Rock. Steve Austin would've stayed as The Ringmaster, or at best been labeled as a failure after it flopped and stuck in the mid-card for life. Mick Foley would never made it out of NXT if he was even hired in the first place. It's crazy that Vince just refuses to let guys go out there nowadays and be themselves. Everything has to be so micro-managed and sterile. And it's to the great detriment of the product, and has been for such a long time. And worse it's been like this for years. And he gives up on guys so easily, especially when they don't fit his antiquated idea of what a star should look like. And more often then not the guys who have that "look" he loves so much aren't ready for prime time. And they fail. Whether it was Chris Masters, Bobby Lashley, Diesel, Mason Ryan, or seemingly Roman Reigns If WWE in 2015 as it is was going head to head with WCW nowadays, they'd be getting their asses kicked. I agree 1000%. I loathe the way they attempt to create superstars. They've completely stifled creativity and uniqueness. And it's so frustrating to know that, from a talent standpoint, this roster is as deep as it's ever been. They can cut promos if you let them speak in their own words. The promos they have up on Youtube and WWE.com are miles better than the ones they have to do in front of an audience. Now, that could be nerves and stage freight, but let them find their voice. Austin is a foul-mouthed, beer-swilling Texan. CM Punk is an unflinching, opinionated asshole. Bryan is a down-to-earth hippie. The Rock is a charismatic rock star with muscles. Why not let Roman reinvent himself? He still wears the Shield gear, comes out to the Shield music. Enters the ring from the crowd like the Shield did. His only new thing is he's got fancy eye contacts. He's clinging to an identity the way Marty Jannetty did in 1992 when Shawn bolted and completely overhauled himself.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Mar 24, 2015 1:26:58 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks comparing Cena and Reigns is apples and oranges? For better or worse, Cena has had about an equal amount of fans as much as haters he gains a reaction and sells a shit load of merch. Post injury, even the kiddies don't give two shits about Reigns. Anyway even the smarks loved Cena up until he feuded with Angle. (I think the summerslam 05 crowd was more pro Jericho, than anti-cena.) Just watch Mania XX.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Mar 24, 2015 1:37:44 GMT -5
Yeah. Reigns just has nothing to warrant where he is. except being pretty damn well over, when he was booked like a monster pre-injury? Not many thought Ryback didn't deserve his spot after being put in main event matches after being booked like a beast for a short period, despite him not being anything special in the ring imo. Sorry, don't mean to come off as a condescending doucher, but I just feel that Reigns hate has made it more apparent than ever that people rearrange their reasoning and rationale to benefit guys they like, and slam the guys they don't. I'm not even a fan of the guy, but I realize and understand why the WWE started to push him. I have no problem saying that my only problem with Reigns in the main event is that he's not one of Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, or Dean Ambrose whom are doing nothing of significance which is unwarranted.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Mar 24, 2015 1:43:42 GMT -5
Yeah. Reigns just has nothing to warrant where he is. except being pretty damn well over, when he was booked like a monster pre-injury? Not many thought Ryback didn't deserve his spot after being put in main event matches after being booked like a beast for a short period, despite him not being anything special in the ring imo. Sorry, don't mean to come off as a condescending doucher, but I just feel that Reigns hate has made it more apparent than ever that people rearrange their reasoning and rationale to benefit guys they like, and slam the guys they don't. I'm not even a fan of the guy, but I realize and understand why the WWE started to push him. I have no problem saying that my only problem with Reigns in the main event is that he's not one of Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, or Dean Ambrose whom are doing nothing of significance which is unwarranted. Well.. the over thing can be shot down because he was never the most over guy. He's no Bryan or Ambrose and I don't think he was as over as Ryback at the time. I might be wrong but I don't think so. I don't like Ziggler but think he's better served to be where Reigns is. It makes sense to push Reigns. It makes no sense to give him THIS push. I'm not rearranging anything. Nothing he has is any better than someone else on the roster.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 24, 2015 1:44:41 GMT -5
The entire RAW Crowd booed him out of the building as the GO HOME SHOW for WrestleMania ended
Roman's Career is about as fine as a Dog sitting in a Kitchen Fire.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Mar 24, 2015 1:47:36 GMT -5
except being pretty damn well over, when he was booked like a monster pre-injury? Not many thought Ryback didn't deserve his spot after being put in main event matches after being booked like a beast for a short period, despite him not being anything special in the ring imo. Sorry, don't mean to come off as a condescending doucher, but I just feel that Reigns hate has made it more apparent than ever that people rearrange their reasoning and rationale to benefit guys they like, and slam the guys they don't. I'm not even a fan of the guy, but I realize and understand why the WWE started to push him. I have no problem saying that my only problem with Reigns in the main event is that he's not one of Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, or Dean Ambrose whom are doing nothing of significance which is unwarranted. Well.. the over thing can be shot down because he was never the most over guy. He's no Bryan or Ambrose and I don't think he was as over as Ryback at the time. I might be wrong but I don't think so. I don't like Ziggler but think he's better served to be where Reigns is. It makes sense to push Reigns. It makes no sense to give him THIS push. I'm not rearranging anything. Nothing he has is any better than someone else on the roster. idk man, I'd say Reigns was the most over of the shield in 2014. Watch some shield segments where they introduce each other. More often than not, Reigns got the loudest reception
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Post by gnr123 on Mar 24, 2015 1:53:22 GMT -5
except being pretty damn well over, when he was booked like a monster pre-injury? Not many thought Ryback didn't deserve his spot after being put in main event matches after being booked like a beast for a short period, despite him not being anything special in the ring imo. Sorry, don't mean to come off as a condescending doucher, but I just feel that Reigns hate has made it more apparent than ever that people rearrange their reasoning and rationale to benefit guys they like, and slam the guys they don't. I'm not even a fan of the guy, but I realize and understand why the WWE started to push him. I have no problem saying that my only problem with Reigns in the main event is that he's not one of Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, or Dean Ambrose whom are doing nothing of significance which is unwarranted. Well.. the over thing can be shot down because he was never the most over guy. He's no Bryan or Ambrose and I don't think he was as over as Ryback at the time. I might be wrong but I don't think so. I don't like Ziggler but think he's better served to be where Reigns is. It makes sense to push Reigns. It makes no sense to give him THIS push. I'm not rearranging anything. Nothing he has is any better than someone else on the roster. Ryback was f***in over in 2012. www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkbQ1oGhLg8Go to 1:35. Listen to the pop he gets when he comes out. And it was in Philly of all places, same arena Reigns got booed out of the building.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Mar 24, 2015 1:55:39 GMT -5
Well.. the over thing can be shot down because he was never the most over guy. He's no Bryan or Ambrose and I don't think he was as over as Ryback at the time. I might be wrong but I don't think so. I don't like Ziggler but think he's better served to be where Reigns is. It makes sense to push Reigns. It makes no sense to give him THIS push. I'm not rearranging anything. Nothing he has is any better than someone else on the roster. idk man, I'd say Reigns was the most over of the shield in 2014. Watch some shield segments where they introduce each other. More often than not, Reigns got the loudest reception OK. I'll concede that. But after the split Ambrose surpassed him pretty quick. So why stick with Roman? He is/was very over. Not arguing that. I'm staying that he was never soooooo over that this super push feels right. Because it clearly isn't working so I think my point is backed up.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Mar 24, 2015 1:59:42 GMT -5
idk man, I'd say Reigns was the most over of the shield in 2014. Watch some shield segments where they introduce each other. More often than not, Reigns got the loudest reception OK. I'll concede that. But after the split Ambrose surpassed him pretty quick. So why stick with Roman? He is/was very over. Not arguing that. I'm staying that he was never soooooo over that this super push feels right. Because it clearly isn't working so I think my point is backed up. see, is it really a super push? Before you laugh hear me out. He dominated survivor series 13, and Rumble 14, and is just now getting a title shot. The injury screwed things up, and if he stayed healthy perhaps it would feel more organic. I don't think Ambrose dethroned him until he was sidelined.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 24, 2015 2:00:15 GMT -5
Yeah. Reigns just has nothing to warrant where he is. except being pretty damn well over, when he was booked like a monster pre-injury? Not many thought Ryback didn't deserve his spot after being put in main event matches after being booked like a beast for a short period, despite him not being anything special in the ring imo. Sorry, don't mean to come off as a condescending doucher, but I just feel that Reigns hate has made it more apparent than ever that people rearrange their reasoning and rationale to benefit guys they like, and slam the guys they don't. I'm not even a fan of the guy, but I realize and understand why the WWE started to push him. I have no problem saying that my only problem with Reigns in the main event is that he's not one of Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, or Dean Ambrose whom are doing nothing of significance which is unwarranted. Two differences between Ryback and Reigns. 1.) Ryback worked his way up the card. Reigns was a "top of the card" guy from the moment he arrived 2.) reigns was hand picked to be the "face of the company". Ryback wasHe was just a last minute replacement due to Cena's injury. Ryback was probably projected to be A guy at best, but he was never going to be "The Guy".
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Post by Dave the Dave on Mar 24, 2015 2:05:29 GMT -5
OK. I'll concede that. But after the split Ambrose surpassed him pretty quick. So why stick with Roman? He is/was very over. Not arguing that. I'm staying that he was never soooooo over that this super push feels right. Because it clearly isn't working so I think my point is backed up. see, is it really a super push? Before you laugh hear me out. He dominated survivor series 13, and Rumble 14, and is just now getting a title shot. The injury screwed things up, and if he stayed healthy perhaps it would feel more organic. I don't think Ambrose dethroned him until he was sidelined. I think Ambrose was right with at least. The heat with Rollins and Ambrose was huge. Reigns went after Orton and it wasnt as fervent a reaction. And yes. It's a super push. I won't laugh at your opinion, but it's a super push.
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Post by gnr123 on Mar 24, 2015 2:25:06 GMT -5
except being pretty damn well over, when he was booked like a monster pre-injury? Not many thought Ryback didn't deserve his spot after being put in main event matches after being booked like a beast for a short period, despite him not being anything special in the ring imo. Sorry, don't mean to come off as a condescending doucher, but I just feel that Reigns hate has made it more apparent than ever that people rearrange their reasoning and rationale to benefit guys they like, and slam the guys they don't. I'm not even a fan of the guy, but I realize and understand why the WWE started to push him. I have no problem saying that my only problem with Reigns in the main event is that he's not one of Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, or Dean Ambrose whom are doing nothing of significance which is unwarranted. Two differences between Ryback and Reigns. 1.) Ryback worked his way up the card. Reigns was a "top of the card" guy from the moment he arrived 2.) reigns was hand picked to be the "face of the company". Ryback wasHe was just a last minute replacement due to Cena's injury. Ryback was probably projected to be A guy at best, but he was never going to be "The Guy". Yeah, Ryback got his push because Cena had an injury. Also, he was pretty damn over at the time. He was one of the few young hoss's in the company, and he played his character to perfection. Was he green? Of course, but he was great in the aspect that he liked to beat the shit out of people and fans ate it up. But, he didn't get pushed at the expense of other people. There wasn't many guys who were over as Ryback was in late 2012 besides Cena himself, Team Hell No, Sheamus, and maybe one or two I'm forgetting. But, Ryback was the perfect adversary for Punk at the time. Now though, you have many guys who are more over or talented than Reigns. But, Reigns is getting the push because of? What exactly? Nepotism? Favoritism? Vince just likes him? I just don't see it. And we have people like Bryan, Heyman and Henry trying to get Reigns over, because we all know he can't do it himself. He's still got The Shield entrance, gear, and catchphrase to keep him over. Their using his family history and relation to The Rock to get him over. It's all forced and feels wrong. People like Bryan and Ambrose are getting thrown in a 7 man clusterf*** ladder match while Reign's plays tug of war with the Beast Incarnate who's the 1 in 21-1.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 24, 2015 2:59:27 GMT -5
OK. I'll concede that. But after the split Ambrose surpassed him pretty quick. So why stick with Roman? He is/was very over. Not arguing that. I'm staying that he was never soooooo over that this super push feels right. Because it clearly isn't working so I think my point is backed up. see, is it really a super push? Before you laugh hear me out. He dominated survivor series 13, and Rumble 14, and is just now getting a title shot. The injury screwed things up, and if he stayed healthy perhaps it would feel more organic. I don't think Ambrose dethroned him until he was sidelined. I can point to you the moment Ambrose dethroned Reigns. Man, when you put those two right next to each other, it's hard not to figure out how inadequate Reigns is to his most talented peers.
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