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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Mar 24, 2015 3:02:09 GMT -5
How could anyone classify Roman's push as anything but a super push? The dude has no business main eventing Wrestlemania over Bryan, Ambrose, Ziggler or Cena.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 24, 2015 3:20:56 GMT -5
Vince right now.
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Post by kidglov3s on Mar 24, 2015 3:24:10 GMT -5
Diesel was champion for a year.
One year.
Of Diesel Power.
Believe that!
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 24, 2015 6:41:22 GMT -5
I just find it strange that they seemingly put more effort into the guy they DIDN'T want to push (Bryan last year) than they have into the guy that they DID want to push (Reigns this year).
I know, I know... fans had the metaphorical gun to Vince's head and all that, but they still could have half-assed that Bryan buildup (between Elimination Chamber and WrestleMania), yet they didn't. Or if they did, nowhere near as much they have with Reigns.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 24, 2015 7:17:04 GMT -5
I just find it strange that they seemingly put more effort into the guy they DIDN'T want to push (Bryan last year) than they have into the guy that they DID want to push (Reigns this year). I know, I know... fans had the metaphorical gun to Vince's head and all that, but they still could have half-assed that Bryan buildup (between Elimination Chamber and WrestleMania), yet they didn't. Or if they did, nowhere near as much they have with Reigns. It's a mix of Vince letting Brock's lawyers handcuff him with the contract negotiations, and not wanting to let Brock beat the piss out of Reigns during the build-up because he knew Brock would get an even bigger pop than if Eddie suddenly rose from the dead and walked out onto the ramp.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 24, 2015 7:48:25 GMT -5
They thought they'd have a full year to get the Reigns superpush up to full speed but injury put a stop to that. Lesnar isn't sticking around after Wrestlemania and he's the biggest name heel they have with any credibility as they've fed them all to Cena over the years then left them to rot... I know they have Hunter but there's no way he'd give up being one of Sting's handful of WWE opponents in order to put over someone who needs it.
Vince is also incredibly bloody minded, he wants Reigns and he's not going to let the audience say no another time. We're reliving the mid 90s pushes of Diesel and Shawn, the audience said no to Lex Luger and Vince simply won't let the audience reject another face champion of his choice even if it makes his own company bleed half to death.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 7:50:39 GMT -5
The Reigns push is going to fail and going to eventually see him get shot down the card, just the question is when. My guess, around Survivor Series.
And really, the only ways I can see to potentially salvage him at this point are have him turn heel by aligning with Heyman at Mania, have him lose and then start building up a redemption arc, and have him lose leading to Rollins cashing in on Lesnar then Reigns goes apeshit and beats Rollins half to death setting up a double-turn.
Even then I don't actually know if any of those'd work because WWE's just made Reigns a completely toxic act no one wants anything to do with. If they did have him lose and start having to build himself back up it might create some sympathy but it'd also probably be just as likely to make people change the channel or keep on booing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 8:02:23 GMT -5
This Reigns deal is solid evidence that the old "The IWC is a very small, insignificant segment of the audience" and "fans don't care about workrate" adages are done. I realize this from a few pages ago, but no, this doesn't disprove those quotes at all. Ask yourself: do you honestly think that the average father of two, sitting in a Raw crowd, even knows what "workrate" is? Or a 12-year-old, who may have heard the term on YouTube but has no idea what it means. You're acting as though the average Raw audience is full of smarks, which I can guarantee you it isn't. Reigns is bombing with casual audiences because his storylines and booking have been utter garbage since his return; it's had jack-shit to do with IWCisms like workrate.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 8:08:28 GMT -5
This Reigns deal is solid evidence that the old "The IWC is a very small, insignificant segment of the audience" and "fans don't care about workrate" adages are done. I realize this from a few pages ago, but no, this doesn't disprove those quotes at all. Ask yourself: do you honestly think that the average father of two, sitting in a Raw crowd, even knows what "workrate" is? Or a 12-year-old, who may have heard the term on YouTube but has no idea what it means. You're acting as though the average Raw audience is full of smarks, which I can guarantee you it isn't. Reigns is bombing with casual audiences because his storylines and booking have been utter garbage since his return; it's had jack-shit to do with IWCisms like workrate. They may not know the terms, but ring work does absolutely matter to the average crowd. If it didn't then it wouldn't have been a thing in the weeks leading up to the Rumble where Reigns largely got huge pops for his entrance then after he spent ten minutes rolling around in a chinlock the crowd was suddenly booing him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 8:12:05 GMT -5
They may not know the terms, but ring work does absolutely matter to the average crowd. If it didn't then it wouldn't have been a thing in the weeks leading up to the Rumble where Reigns largely got huge pops for his entrance then after he spent ten minutes rolling around in a chinlock the crowd was suddenly booing him. The crowd was booing him during his entrance, and the Rumbles are heavily scripted so that particular instance is due to booking, not Reigns. I'm not saying that the crowd doesn't appreciate someone who's crazy athletic or exciting, like a Ziggler or Bryan. But that also doesn't mean that the average fan was watching Bryan/Reigns from Fastlane and thinking "man, this was a total Bryan carry-job, boo Reigns!"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 8:12:56 GMT -5
They may not know the terms, but ring work does absolutely matter to the average crowd. If it didn't then it wouldn't have been a thing in the weeks leading up to the Rumble where Reigns largely got huge pops for his entrance then after he spent ten minutes rolling around in a chinlock the crowd was suddenly booing him. The crowd was booing him during his entrance, and the Rumbles are heavily scripted so that particular instance is due to booking, not Reigns. I'm not saying that the crowd doesn't appreciate someone who's crazy athletic or exciting, like a Ziggler or Bryan. But that also doesn't mean that the average fan was watching Bryan/Reigns from Fastlane and thinking "man, this was a total Bryan carry-job, boo Reigns!" I'm not talking about the Rumble itself, talking about the weeks leading up to it. But yeah, I doubt they think in terms of that so match, but people can tell who has talent and who sucks.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Mar 24, 2015 8:15:27 GMT -5
Something that bugs me. Does WWE not get that the fans KNOW it's scripted?
That's the only way I can explain Reigns/Bryan. The dude is getting **** on by every televised crowd. You don't make those boos stop by having him beat the guy those booing fans LIKE. It's not like in a real sport where defeating a credible opponent means you're better than them. These fans are booing the *storyline*. They don't hate Roman. In fact, they like Roman a lot more than some of the other guys in the back. It's just that they hate this idea that he's the BEST.
Jesus H. Christ, WWE, you had a dude who came right out and explained this ON THE AIR.
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 24, 2015 8:56:21 GMT -5
I've often thought it bizarre that Vince has always been so hell bent on pushing guys that clearly have tanked. Good grief, he kept the belt on Yokozuna from June 1993 until March 1994. Then he did it again with Nash in 1995. Oddly the Luger push is one I think Vince sorta gave up on by Summerslam 1993...otherwise why not have him cruise to the title? Or rather, maybe Vince thought it possible to build interest, but after SS fans just lost interest in Luger.
I just don't get this Reigns push. I could understand why promoters would see money in Luger, and I can even see pushing Nash. But Reigns? Why? If you want big guys, well, he's fairly big but not some muscle bound dude. He's not a 7 ft., 300 lb. guy like Nash. Reigns is a bigger than average pro wrestler with marginal skills and not a ton of charisma on the mic. He was perfect in The Shield since he could be the powerhouse of the group while Rollins and Ambrose did the actual work in the ring and on the mic.
The distressing thing is that this isn't just Vince that thinks pushing the guy is the 100% right thing to do. If I recall Vince wanted Rock/Lesnar, but HHH is who wanted Reigns/Lesnar. Even Vince Russo went on record in support of a Reigns Rumble win. This has to be even more bizarre than groupthink when even people not in that bubble think pushing this guy is a great idea.
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Post by g1megatronfan on Mar 24, 2015 9:38:20 GMT -5
It's a sad state of affairs. Where else can such bullshit and stupidity exist besides in wrestling? It's just mind boggling that this can go on.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Mar 24, 2015 9:44:44 GMT -5
This Reigns deal is solid evidence that the old "The IWC is a very small, insignificant segment of the audience" and "fans don't care about workrate" adages are done. I could give you the first one but the second one isn't true, most fans couldn't care less about workrate The problem with roman isn't related to workrate, is that everything feels forced with it
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 24, 2015 9:49:00 GMT -5
Even then I don't actually know if any of those'd work because WWE's just made Reigns a completely toxic act no one wants anything to do with. If they did have him lose and start having to build himself back up it might create some sympathy but it'd also probably be just as likely to make people change the channel or keep on booing. There pretty much isn't anything they can do with him at this point. They've burned him. Fans know he was management's choice, 99% have rejected him (someone's going to get snarky about that number), and anything WWE does with him at all, EVER again (except fire him) is going to be seen as another attempt to shove him down their throats. Management lets up, and lets him try to build himself back up, Ryback-style? Fans are going to consider it a ruse; "Oh, they just want us to THINK they still don't want to shove him down out throats ASAP, F*** HIM AND F*** YOU TOO, VINCE!" They make him go through the "Now it's time to job for 4 straight months" yo-yo period? Fans are going to consider it a ruse; "Oh, you're just trying to make us feel bad for him. WELL WE DON'T! FIRE HIS ASS ALREADY!" At this point, Reigns couldn't even get support if some jackass WWE office drone legit Alberto Del Rio'd him.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 24, 2015 9:56:50 GMT -5
Even then I don't actually know if any of those'd work because WWE's just made Reigns a completely toxic act no one wants anything to do with. If they did have him lose and start having to build himself back up it might create some sympathy but it'd also probably be just as likely to make people change the channel or keep on booing. There pretty much isn't anything they can do with him at this point. They've burned him. Fans know he was management's choice, 99% have rejected him (someone's going to get snarky about that number), and anything WWE does with him at all, EVER again (except fire him) is going to be seen as another attempt to shove him down their throats. Management lets up, and lets him try to build himself back up, Ryback-style? Fans are going to consider it a ruse; "Oh, they just want us to THINK they still don't want to shove him down out throats ASAP, F*** HIM AND F*** YOU TOO, VINCE!" They make him go through the "Now it's time to job for 4 straight months" yo-yo period? Fans are going to consider it a ruse; "Oh, you're just trying to make us feel bad for him. WELL WE DON'T! FIRE HIS ASS ALREADY!" At this point, Reigns couldn't even get support if some jackass WWE office drone legit Alberto Del Rio'd him. Not to mention this may have possibly ruined any possible Shield reunion... People are going to see right through that too.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 24, 2015 9:58:33 GMT -5
Yep, they can.
They have the blueprint with Cena. If Reigns gets booed, he's "controversial".
They'll go with that.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 24, 2015 10:04:10 GMT -5
There pretty much isn't anything they can do with him at this point. They've burned him. Fans know he was management's choice, 99% have rejected him (someone's going to get snarky about that number), and anything WWE does with him at all, EVER again (except fire him) is going to be seen as another attempt to shove him down their throats. Management lets up, and lets him try to build himself back up, Ryback-style? Fans are going to consider it a ruse; "Oh, they just want us to THINK they still don't want to shove him down out throats ASAP, F*** HIM AND F*** YOU TOO, VINCE!" They make him go through the "Now it's time to job for 4 straight months" yo-yo period? Fans are going to consider it a ruse; "Oh, you're just trying to make us feel bad for him. WELL WE DON'T! FIRE HIS ASS ALREADY!" At this point, Reigns couldn't even get support if some jackass WWE office drone legit Alberto Del Rio'd him. Not to mention this may have possibly ruined any possible Shield reunion... People are going to see right through that too. Now, I do think that it's possible for Roman to get over again. But not during this run, not in WWE. He's going to have to get fired, go to Japan, work his ass off, and if he ever gets good enough that he doesn't need to be carried all the time (say, sometime between 2018-2020), THEN start ripping on Vince and co. for hanging him out to dry in 2015.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 10:08:57 GMT -5
Yep, they can. They have the blueprint with Cena. If Reigns gets booed, he's "controversial". They'll go with that. Not really - Cena's always sold shitloads (really, Firefox recognizes 'shitloads' as a word but not, say, 'Pikachu'?) of merch which justifies his presence. Reigns, by most accounts his merch sells okay but not remarkably, I'd say it's probably fallen since the Rumble, and he doesn't have nearly the fanbase Cena does or even had at the time his rise was going on. I'd say it's much more likely we're looking at the next Sheamus or Alberto than the next Cena. Either way, it just astounds me people could tell this was going to happen if they had him win the Rumble way back in August yet the people in the f***ing business seemingly had no clue.
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