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Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 18, 2016 13:21:20 GMT -5
I haven't seen Rogue One and I don't even know what the main character is called, but I already know she isn't a Mary Sue. I've never heard that term until this forum started talking about Star Wars. So I go look it up, and of all things it has its roots in Star Trek. As Wikipedia describes it, I'm surprised the term didn't become Wesley Crusher. |
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Dec 18, 2016 13:26:00 GMT -5
I can't believe people still defend the prequels. I brought this up to my GF in line last night for Rogue 1. I find it baffling.
I liked TFA. It doesn't age well. Shallow, a composite of the OT and far too much nostalgic fan service. But: solid direction. Good pacing. Beautiful film. Damn good acting from nearly everyone except maybe Daisy Ridley or Lupita (and even then it's graphics) and Harrison Ford. Again, Harrison Ford.
The prequels (Yes, even ROTS) are stoic, shallow, utter piece of shit films. Terrible acting. Across the board. Consider one of the best delivered lines in all of the prequels might be Darth Mauls. And it was his ONE line. It made GOOD actors...Bad! Like Natalie Portman. And Sam L. Jake Lloyd. Jar Jar Binks. Politics. Lots of politics. The nothinginess of AOTC. The "Love Story" between Anakin and Padme. ALL of the walking in ROTS. Anakins turn is absolutely underwhelming. Terrible dialogue from Episode 1 alllll the way to "Ony a Sith deals in absolutes". All shit. Seriously. And to elaborte on how Rogue 1 has made the prequels worse (cause it's the opposite of fine wine) consider the weighty grounded consequences of some of the fates of the characters in Rogue 1. Now go watch the space battle in TPM. Or all the wise cracking Obi Wan and Anakin make while their lives are at risk. Like any of the war aspects. There's little to no gravity to the situation. It's like comparing a 5 year old child running around in his house swinging a plastic sword (prequels) to World War II footage (Rogue 1). To each their own but I think you need to be able to separate your love of a fandom and know when shit is shit.
But since everyone's using analogies mine is the OT was the one. Ya had your rocky times (Ewoks...incestual undertones) but it was magical. And then it was over. And she said "You're gonna meet someone some day that I've prepared you for" Then that girl comes and not a single intelligent thought comes from her head. She's superficial. She's plastic. She's void of life and emotion. She's juvenile and quite frankly boring. Near the end it gets a little better but you're just happy it's over. One day you run into a girl that reminds you a lot of your first love, little different but enough to make you feel alive again. You guys do your thing and it's good and that's that...but really she's getting you ready for another girl. The hopefully endearing, epic, and sex-goddess that is Episode VIII.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 18, 2016 13:27:37 GMT -5
I haven't seen Rogue One and I don't even know what the main character is called, but I already know she isn't a Mary Sue. I've never heard that term until this forum started talking about Star Wars. So I go look it up, and of all things it has its roots in Star Trek. As Wikipedia describes it, I'm surprised the term didn't become Wesley Crusher. People started throwing it around a lot with Rey. Not are if it's accurate but I find Jynn way more of a nuanced complex character than Rey. It helps the actress kills her performance. |
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pegasuswarrior
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Dec 18, 2016 13:30:09 GMT -5
If we're actually comparing to The Force Awakens to "I hate sand" and "Yippie!", I don't know what makes for a good Star Wars movie. I do. Hiding any further version on a disc, inserting it in a droid, and circulating it among Star Wars fans underground clear of any hateful tyrannical eyes that may find out and immediately blow up about it. At this point, hating Star Wars doesn't make anyone a rebel, it appears the tables have turned and liking the series in its current iteration is the rebellious thing to do. We live in an Internet forum world where people are saying the film version of "I'd rather have Titus O'Neill vs Bastion Booger" because it's garbage but who thinks of that combo? Rather than another Owens vs Zayn classic that isn't the same move for move match as the others, but it sure is fun to gang up, sound cool, and say it is. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 18, 2016 13:31:36 GMT -5
Rogue One was good. Took about forty five minutes to get going, but it was good. I liked the clever way they fixed and addressed one of the biggest talking points/flaws with the Death Star. I liked some of the characters. I was pretty impressed by the Tark
in CGI. The space battle was good. That one Vader scene, holy shit.
Force Awakens was good. It was entertaining and felt like a welcome addition to the saga. It mined familiar tropes sure, but it's Campbellian mythic structure, it's gonna do that. New characters were entertaining, gave you pathos with Han's death and mystery with Luke's deal. Curious to see where it goes.
Prequels largely sucked ass. Ewan was good as Obi-wan. Darth Maul was cool. The other actors tried with the material and direction they were given. Everything looked pretty. Sith was ok as a movie.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 18, 2016 13:34:25 GMT -5
Also, the Ewoks are in no way a negative to the origial trilogy. The Ewoks are awesome.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 18, 2016 13:40:19 GMT -5
"Hey George, why does Padme marry Anakin after he confesses mass murder, only to complain later when he confesses mass murder a second time?"
Lucas: "Uh...."
"Hey George, why would the Naboo put the obvious moron Jar Jar Binks into a position of such power in the Galactic Senate where he can bestow totalitarian powers upon a man with clear dictatorial intent?"
Lucas: "Uhhhh....."
"Hey George, why would the Trade Federation claim they haven't invaded Naboo when two Jedis are present who can obviously confirm that A- an invasion has taken place, and B- they were almost murdered and C- the Trade Federation are responsible for both acts?
Lucas: "Uhhhhhhhhhhh"
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 18, 2016 13:43:39 GMT -5
Another positive (?) thing about Rogue 1, I heard a lot of negative stuff about Tarkin and that one cameo in the end, but I find those graphics utterly terrifyingly good. So in five years..what, it won't matter if an actors been dead, they can just composite his face on a double and..wallah? Again, so impressive and unsettling at the same time.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 18, 2016 13:43:49 GMT -5
Also, the Ewoks are in no way a negative to the origial trilogy. The Ewoks are awesome. The Ewoks kicked ass. I loved Wicket in the animated series. So cute. |
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Post by Stu on Dec 18, 2016 13:52:55 GMT -5
Whenever people bring up the stuff that hurt the prequels (and there's plenty), the only one I'll defend to a certain extent is the politics. It was absolutely necessary for Palpatine to rise to power. He wasn't just going to snap his fingers and rule the galaxy within a matter of days. He needed to manipulate the government and its citizens in order to turn the tables and reshape the senate into his galactic empire.
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AFN: Judge Shred
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Dec 18, 2016 14:14:40 GMT -5
It's kind of funny now to see people turn on episode 7 I have seen few turning on it, a lot of people really disliked it from the start. Can we please stop using the term "Sue" or "Mary Sue" seriously? It doesn't mean anything anymore. It's a substitute for "I don't find this character appealing". That's it. Nothing more. Even then, from A new Hope on, a character who is the one and favored is the entire point of the damned movies. Anakin was going to bring balance to the force, no wait, it was always Luke! No, no, it is Rey! If you rip on TFA for it, rip on ALL of them for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 14:26:12 GMT -5
Estimate is Rogue One did $155 million for the weekend. And thus... BOM has it doing 166 million for the weekend That seems a bit overly optimistic to me, I'd figure probably more around $150 million, but wouldn't really surprise me. Either way this thing's going to be huge but nowhere near Force Awakens. Boom, nailed it! |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 18, 2016 14:27:23 GMT -5
I will say while I liked Jyn, Rey may have made a bigger imprint on me. But I thought both were solid heroines.
Some people have accused Jyn of being too dull as opposed to the rest of the cast, I hugely disagree. I was invested in everything she did and I thought her dynamic with Andor was really strong. Felicity Jones and Diego Luna did a great job, esp. in the finale.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 18, 2016 14:30:32 GMT -5
Whenever people bring up the stuff that hurt the prequels (and there's plenty), the only one I'll defend to a certain extent is the politics. It was absolutely necessary for Palpatine to rise to power. He wasn't just going to snap his fingers and rule the galaxy within a matter of days. He needed to manipulate the government and its citizens in order to turn the tables and reshape the senate into his galactic empire. Yeah, but it wasn't done well. Political thrillers and plots can be paced out to be riveting and captivating, but the fault again lies with old Plaid McBeard, who I'm not really sure what he was good at. The politics in the (now no longer canon) were interesting around this time period especially with Plageuis/Palpatine. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 18, 2016 15:02:02 GMT -5
It's not even the Ewoks being cute that I like. Outmatched underdog triumphs is always a good story.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 18, 2016 15:04:21 GMT -5
Another positive (?) thing about Rogue 1, I heard a lot of negative stuff about Tarkin and that one cameo in the end, but I find those graphics utterly terrifyingly good. So in five years..what, it won't matter if an actors been dead, they can just composite his face on a double and..wallah? Again, so impressive and unsettling at the same time. Tarkin's looked as good as could be done. There was a scene here or there where he looked a little plastic, but all in all I thought the FX on his face was really good. |
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Post by sternrogers01 on Dec 18, 2016 15:05:57 GMT -5
I can't believe people still defend the prequels. Beleive it. People can find different things to enjoy about these things when they get older. South Park made the best point ever about FA and that was the only saving grace of that entire 20th season. FA is'nt endearing, it's f'ing empty calories. It's fast food Star Wars...reminds you of a good feeling you had years ago, but it does'nt prepare you for anything. The prequels inform you a lot on what comes down the line in real world politics, and it impacted me a lot when Bush was in office. Funny how you'll tell us to separate fandom from reality, here's the thing, why not let people enjoy what they want to enjoy without making them feel awkward about what they LEARN to enjoy? Times change, tastes change, tastes evolve. You think the prequels are shit? Good for you, but you're going to get more people like me here who saw something good in them and we won't be silenced because you're so damn drunk on 'member berry juice Sad thing is, you KNOW FA is crap and yet you praise it. That's worse. Let's reward mediocrity and "safe" storytelling because Han Solo told sanitation that's not how the force works, or someone shed a tear really really well. Ugh. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 18, 2016 15:23:26 GMT -5
I have no problem with people liking the prequels as just a few hours of entertainment (yeah man, lightsabres, woo hoo, yay!), but rather when they try to justify plot holes or defend a terrible script with absurd stretches of logic and apologism.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 18, 2016 16:02:55 GMT -5
Funny how you'll tell us to separate fandom from reality, here's the thing, why not let people enjoy what they want to enjoy without making them feel awkward about what they LEARN to enjoy? Coming from you, this request is hilarious. On this board you're perhaps the biggest offender when it comes to stomping over what people enjoy. It's never "I didn't care for this movie, personally," but "This movie is flat out bad, here's why it's bad, and you should raise your standards." Sad thing is, you KNOW FA is crap and yet you praise it. That's worse. Let's reward mediocrity and "safe" storytelling because Han Solo told sanitation that's not how the force works, or someone shed a tear really really well. Ugh. I rest my case. |
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 18, 2016 16:05:59 GMT -5
Another positive (?) thing about Rogue 1, I heard a lot of negative stuff about Tarkin and that one cameo in the end, but I find those graphics utterly terrifyingly good. So in five years..what, it won't matter if an actors been dead, they can just composite his face on a double and..wallah? Again, so impressive and unsettling at the same time. Tarkin's looked as good as could be done. There was a scene here or there where he looked a little plastic, but all in all I thought the FX on his face was really good. Very rarely. Maybe it just looked better in IMAX 3D. To think how fast this technology has progressed from Gladiator to Tron to Ant-Man to Rogue One is a little startling. I can't believe people still defend the prequels. Beleive it. People can find different things to enjoy about these things when they get older. South Park made the best point ever about FA and that was the only saving grace of that entire 20th season. FA is'nt endearing, it's f'ing empty calories. It's fast food Star Wars...reminds you of a good feeling you had years ago, but it does'nt prepare you for anything. The prequels inform you a lot on what comes down the line in real world politics, and it impacted me a lot when Bush was in office. Funny how you'll tell us to separate fandom from reality, here's the thing, why not let people enjoy what they want to enjoy without making them feel awkward about what they LEARN to enjoy? Times change, tastes change, tastes evolve. You think the prequels are shit? Good for you, but you're going to get more people like me here who saw something good in them and we won't be silenced because you're so damn drunk on 'member berry juice Sad thing is, you KNOW FA is crap and yet you praise it. That's worse. Let's reward mediocrity and "safe" storytelling because Han Solo told sanitation that's not how the force works, or someone shed a tear really really well. Ugh. Hey, relax man. I said to each their own. If you like it, there's no reason you should feel awkward about it. Same way I don't feel bad about saying I think they're shit. There's also an irony in chastising the nostalgia that some feel for the OT and yet a reason you endeared yourself to the prequels was because of a timely political climate. I don't think TFA is mediocre at all, again acting pacing dialogue, effects, narrative all blows the prequels away (IMO) but it may be canned coke. But so is a lot of Marvel flicks. And blockbusters. That's where I get confused..saying TFA is mediocre while defending the prequels when all three of those are big old bags of mediocre in a bunch of aspects. They are better than the Holiday Special if not as funny. |
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