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Post by revolver86 on Jan 1, 2017 22:43:19 GMT -5
I also must point out that my favorite film is the original Star Wars. It's theonly film that was created in a vacuum and is as close to a perfect science fiction film, as one gets. To see a movie that takes that same spirit. Adds elements of new wars and current threats. This was everything I ever wanted as a Star Wars story. And t h e beauty is all these ztandalones can scratch every it. This was the war side. The Han movie wil deal with the underworld/bounty hunter deal, then we'll get a Yoda movie to go full mystic force stuff. Two movies in and Disney is proving why they know exactly how to please an audience. It's why I wish they woould buy out WWE.
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Post by revolver86 on Jan 1, 2017 22:54:35 GMT -5
It's funny, at the time it came out Attack Of The Clones seemed superior to Phantom Menace in pretty much every way. But 15 years on, Phantom Menace is actually the one that people remember and have a soft spot for. Attack Of The Clones is really only memorable for all the terrible dialogue between Anakin and Padme. It kind of sucks, because the rest of that movie is great. Sadly the Anakin/Padme love story managed to suck harder than all of Phantom Menace combined, and almost brought down Revenge of the Sith. Shows how important the casting and writing of two lovers is. Alrighty,my list: A New Hope The Empire Strikes Back Rogue One The Force Awakens Revenge of the Sith Return of the Jedi Attack of the Clones The Phantom Menace |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 23:04:54 GMT -5
I'm a casual Star Wars fan. I've seen all the movies, but never re-watched them. Thought they were awesome on the first watch, though. Thought this was awesome, as well, and it made me want to re-watch the others.
I think I'm becoming a bigger Star Wars fan with these last two films.
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Post by revolver86 on Jan 1, 2017 23:16:14 GMT -5
Ugh, I keep having to say shit, but visually this movie was the equivalent to Michaelangelo and the Sistene Chapel. I can't get over how beautiful this film was. I imagine that this is how people felt in '77.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 0:30:16 GMT -5
It's funny, at the time it came out Attack Of The Clones seemed superior to Phantom Menace in pretty much every way. But 15 years on, Phantom Menace is actually the one that people remember and have a soft spot for. Attack Of The Clones is really only memorable for all the terrible dialogue between Anakin and Padme. It kind of sucks, because the rest of that movie is great. Sadly the Anakin/Padme love story managed to suck harder than all of Phantom Menace combined, and almost brought down Revenge of the Sith. Shows how important the casting and writing of two lovers is. Alrighty,my list: A New Hope The Empire Strikes Back Rogue One The Force Awakens Revenge of the Sith Return of the Jedi Attack of the Clones The Phantom Menace The rest of the movie was a mystery that had no resolution. It's hard for me to think of that as great. It's pretty to look at though and has some good action scenes. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 2, 2017 0:46:21 GMT -5
The rest of the movie was a mystery that had no resolution. It's hard for me to think of that as great. Yeah, "great" is too strong a word, but I enjoyed the Obi-Wan: Jedi Detective stuff more than everything else in Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith combined. Ewan had better get his own spinoff movie at some point. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 2, 2017 1:44:51 GMT -5
- So who tried to kill Padme? A bounty hunter called Jango Fett
- Why did he do that? He works for a former Jedi called Count Dooku
- Why did Dooku want her dead? Because he's leading a group of star systems that want to leave the Republic
- So is she trying to stop them? No
- So why kill her? Erm.......uh.....
- So why is it called Attack of the Clones? Well, a former Jedi ordered a mentally conditioned clone army for the Republic many years ago using Jango Fett as a DNA source.
- Why? Uhhh......
- So this army, does it actually get made? Yes, the Jedi discover it and take control of it
- Why? Well, because.....uh.....
- Isn't it a little dangerous using a mentally conditioned army of clones when you don't know why it was created and what programming has been written into their DNA? Well.....I guess.
- So what do they use the clone army for? To protect the Republic
- From what? The star systems trying to leave the Republic
- Are they attacking the Republic? No not really....
- So....what's the point of any of this? Well I think....Lucas needed to have something called the Clone Wars in the backstory....but really didn't know how to write it properly.
- I guess he really didn't think this script through did he? Well that's not true, he pre-planned all this in the late 70's
- Really, so back in the late 70's he knew that the backstory to Star Wars would include Obi Wan visiting a space diner to get information on who made a sabre dart which was used to kill an assassin who failed to kill Padme because Padme was opposing the creation of an army? Uh.....erm.
- OK, so where does this romance thing come into it? Well the Jedi send Anakin to protect Padme and he falls in love with her.
- Protect her from what? The assassin.
- I still don't know why he wants to kill her, do you? No not really. This movie sucks!
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 2, 2017 5:45:18 GMT -5
Saw it a few days ago. To me, it is was the okayest Star Wars.
Empire
Jedi
TFA
ANH
Rogue One
Sith
Clones
Phantom
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 2, 2017 12:06:44 GMT -5
- So who tried to kill Padme? A bounty hunter called Jango Fett - Why did he do that? He works for a former Jedi called Count Dooku - Why did Dooku want her dead? Because he's leading a group of star systems that want to leave the Republic - So is she trying to stop them? No - So why kill her? Erm.......uh..... - So why is it called Attack of the Clones? Well, a former Jedi ordered a mentally conditioned clone army for the Republic many years ago using Jango Fett as a DNA source. - Why? Uhhh...... - So this army, does it actually get made? Yes, the Jedi discover it and take control of it - Why? Well, because.....uh..... - Isn't it a little dangerous using a mentally conditioned army of clones when you don't know why it was created and what programming has been written into their DNA? Well.....I guess. - So what do they use the clone army for? To protect the Republic - From what? The star systems trying to leave the Republic - Are they attacking the Republic? No not really.... - So....what's the point of any of this? Well I think....Lucas needed to have something called the Clone Wars in the backstory....but really didn't know how to write it properly. - I guess he really didn't think this script through did he? Well that's not true, he pre-planned all this in the late 70's - Really, so back in the late 70's he knew that the backstory to Star Wars would include Obi Wan visiting a space diner to get information on who made a sabre dart which was used to kill an assassin who failed to kill Padme because Padme was opposing the creation of an army? Uh.....erm. - OK, so where does this romance thing come into it? Well the Jedi send Anakin to protect Padme and he falls in love with her. - Protect her from what? The assassin. - I still don't know why he wants to kill her, do you? No not really. This movie sucks! Actually, they did imply an answer. The whole point of trying to kill her was to spark the investigation into Jango Fett that allowed the Republic to find out about the clone army on Kamino in the first place. The army was ordered in secret (either by a mind-controlled Syfo Dias or by Sidious/Maul pretending to be him), built up in secret (Kamino was removed from the galactic star charts to prevent anyone from randomly coming by and finding it being built up), and now needed to be found in order to be used. Additionally, Fett had actually mentioned who hired him. He stated that it was a man named Tyrannus, which is actually Dooku's Sith name. |
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 2, 2017 12:15:18 GMT -5
Did anyone else notice how dramatically different James Earl Jones voice is in 2016 vs 1977? Really wish they would have manipulated Jones' voice to make him sound closer to his 1977 self. Perhaps not, but it fits with the recent Vader voice-work that Jones has done (mainly on Rebels). I would be reluctant to manipulate his voice acting in order to make it match the 1977 movie. That tends to rob something from the performance. I think that for Tarkin they simply had the voice actor (was it the same as the guy who was the stand-in? They sound somewhat similar to begin with) to an impression of Cushing as Tarkin, rather than try to manipulate a performance in any way. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 2, 2017 12:21:18 GMT -5
- So who tried to kill Padme? A bounty hunter called Jango Fett - Why did he do that? He works for a former Jedi called Count Dooku- Why did Dooku want her dead? Because he's leading a group of star systems that want to leave the Republic - So is she trying to stop them? No - So why kill her? Erm.......uh..... - So why is it called Attack of the Clones? Well, a former Jedi ordered a mentally conditioned clone army for the Republic many years ago using Jango Fett as a DNA source. - Why? Uhhh...... - So this army, does it actually get made? Yes, the Jedi discover it and take control of it - Why? Well, because.....uh..... - Isn't it a little dangerous using a mentally conditioned army of clones when you don't know why it was created and what programming has been written into their DNA? Well.....I guess. - So what do they use the clone army for? To protect the Republic - From what? The star systems trying to leave the Republic - Are they attacking the Republic? No not really.... - So....what's the point of any of this? Well I think....Lucas needed to have something called the Clone Wars in the backstory....but really didn't know how to write it properly. - I guess he really didn't think this script through did he? Well that's not true, he pre-planned all this in the late 70's - Really, so back in the late 70's he knew that the backstory to Star Wars would include Obi Wan visiting a space diner to get information on who made a sabre dart which was used to kill an assassin who failed to kill Padme because Padme was opposing the creation of an army? Uh.....erm. - OK, so where does this romance thing come into it? Well the Jedi send Anakin to protect Padme and he falls in love with her. - Protect her from what? The assassin. - I still don't know why he wants to kill her, do you? No not really. This movie sucks! Actually, they did imply an answer. The whole point of trying to kill her was to spark the investigation into Jango Fett that allowed the Republic to find out about the clone army on Kamino in the first place. The army was ordered in secret (either by a mind-controlled Syfo Dias or by Sidious/Maul pretending to be him), built up in secret (Kamino was removed from the galactic star charts to prevent anyone from randomly coming by and finding it being built up), and now needed to be found in order to be used. Additionally, Fett had actually mentioned who hired him. He stated that it was a man named Tyrannus, which is actually Dooku's Sith name. I mentioned Dooku hired him. The problem is he was hired for no logical reason whatsoever. If the incredibly convoluted and contrived motivation for the assassination was to get the Jedi to discover and use the army, it's still a terrible storyline, since the Jedi would be incredibly stupid to use a genetically engineered army whose origins and design were so murky and ominous. There were far easier ways to manipulate the Republic into creating a clone army that would eventually turn on them. |
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 2, 2017 13:03:51 GMT -5
Actually, they did imply an answer. The whole point of trying to kill her was to spark the investigation into Jango Fett that allowed the Republic to find out about the clone army on Kamino in the first place. The army was ordered in secret (either by a mind-controlled Syfo Dias or by Sidious/Maul pretending to be him), built up in secret (Kamino was removed from the galactic star charts to prevent anyone from randomly coming by and finding it being built up), and now needed to be found in order to be used. Additionally, Fett had actually mentioned who hired him. He stated that it was a man named Tyrannus, which is actually Dooku's Sith name. I mentioned Dooku hired him. The problem is he was hired for no logical reason whatsoever. If the incredibly convoluted and contrived motivation for the assassination was to get the Jedi to discover and use the army, it's still a terrible storyline, since the Jedi would be incredibly stupid to use a genetically engineered army whose origins and design were so murky and ominous. There were far easier ways to manipulate the Republic into creating a clone army that would eventually turn on them. Was it convoluted? Absolutely. There were very few things done in the prequel trilogy that could not have been done smoother. Hell, even the notion of it all (specifically, Palpatine being named Chancellor) starting with a trade dispute could have been done well enough. It just wasn't. I cannot nor will not defend that. Having said that, there is a certain logic that can be gleaned from it when explored again (mainly in the The Clone Wars cartoon). The whole point was to drag the Jedi unthinkingly into the middle of a galaxy-wide conflict. The purpose of that was four-fold: 1) Having a pre-made military force to combat a pre-made Separatist droid army, it allowed Sidious to draw the entire galaxy into conflict immediately before any calmer heads could have had the ability to slow things down and resolve issues peacefully (or simply allow the armed Separatists to leave the Rebublic rather than fight them). Being forced to put in the order to make the clone army would have taken enough time and money that someone could have possibly stopped it. 2) It drew the Jedi into actions that run completely counter to their declared moral stances, which both erodes the public faith in the Jedi and disillusions many Jedi from the cause of the Order itself. 3) It immediately made the Jedi the enemy for nearly half of the galaxy overnight. Granting them military authority also meant that Palpatine could eventually paint their eventual reactions to his status as a Sith to be painted as an attempt of a military coup that would have necessitated killing off the rest in the eyes of the other half of the galaxy. 4) It eventually also played a not-so-insignificant role in Anakin Skywalker becoming Sidious' new apprentice. Had Skywalker not turned, there were others who also similarly became disillusioned that did turn. Most became inquisitors, but a few of them might have proven worthy of actually being an apprentice (maybe Bariss Ofee or Quinlon Vos - had he not turned back to the light). Now, having said all of that, it is very worth noting that I said it, not the damned movies themselves. As a result, so much of the movies were negatively impacted by not stating such things. Hell, it would not have even been too hard to insert some of those things into the movies. Dooku taunting Kenobi during their duel that fighting him would make the Jedi hated by half of the galaxy would not have affected the flow of the movie at all and would have helped make that particular point. The talk at the end between Kenobi, Windu, and Yoda could have expressed more doubt about the clone army and the Jedi's role in the conflict, which could have helped make some of the other points. Really, all it would have taken was another minute or so of extra dialogue to make it all make a lot more sense. That was also an issue I had with The Force Awakens. I would have gladly sacrificed the scene with the space squid monster to get another couple of 30 second scenes that explained a few things better. |
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Jan 2, 2017 13:14:13 GMT -5
Actually, they did imply an answer. The whole point of trying to kill her was to spark the investigation into Jango Fett that allowed the Republic to find out about the clone army on Kamino in the first place. The army was ordered in secret (either by a mind-controlled Syfo Dias or by Sidious/Maul pretending to be him), built up in secret (Kamino was removed from the galactic star charts to prevent anyone from randomly coming by and finding it being built up), and now needed to be found in order to be used. Additionally, Fett had actually mentioned who hired him. He stated that it was a man named Tyrannus, which is actually Dooku's Sith name. I mentioned Dooku hired him. The problem is he was hired for no logical reason whatsoever. If the incredibly convoluted and contrived motivation for the assassination was to get the Jedi to discover and use the army, it's still a terrible storyline, since the Jedi would be incredibly stupid to use a genetically engineered army whose origins and design were so murky and ominous. There were far easier ways to manipulate the Republic into creating a clone army that would eventually turn on them. Dialog in the movie implies that Padmes death was the condition Nute Gunray had for joining the Separatists. But then he joined them regardless so I don<t know that movie sucks. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 2, 2017 15:08:39 GMT -5
I would counter argue that Palpatine didn't even need to start a war involving the Jedi. He had already taken over the Republic, the Sith were thriving right under the Jedi's noses, and he had control over the Senate. Hell by the end of Episode II, the Sith had already won.
The problem with all this, is that no reasons are stated for why the war in Episode III is even taking place. Lucas establishes that some star systems want to leave the Republic. So unless the Republic (and therefore the Jedi) are the aggressors, they have no cause to fight. Lucas never explains WHY the Clone Wars are occurring. Even kidnapping Palpatine could be justified if he's the leader of a government attacking star systems that simply want to secede and are defending themselves against Republic/Jedi attacks. Lucas doesn't even bother to show the Jedi questioning why they are taking part in a war with no stated reason for its existence.
Gunray was a moron and coward. Dooku could have just told him to shut up he probably would have done it, or he could have just had him killed and replaced with another Trade Federation mook if his demands became too irksome. That's the problem with Lucas, his supposed villains like Gunray are completely non-threatening and comical.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 15:35:09 GMT -5
I think that was one of the things about the prequels that didn't work, the halfbit story of the manipulated Jedi that helped set up the Clone Army, or the opera scene in Episode 3, the story of the Jedi bringing people back from the dead. I was really hoping both of these stories had some sort of psychical pay off or reveal, but the characters were just mentioned and I said "Who?", I waited during both of these movies for these characters to show up or be mentioned again then nothing...
My head canon is "Something something Liam Neeson set up the Clone Army" Why? Who cares. It really didn't impact the story anyways.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 2, 2017 17:02:07 GMT -5
I would counter argue that Palpatine didn't even need to start a war involving the Jedi. He had already taken over the Republic, the Sith were thriving right under the Jedi's noses, and he had control over the Senate. Hell by the end of Episode II, the Sith had already won. The problem with all this, is that no reasons are stated for why the war in Episode III is even taking place. Lucas establishes that some star systems want to leave the Republic. So unless the Republic (and therefore the Jedi) are the aggressors, they have no cause to fight. Lucas never explains WHY the Clone Wars are occurring. Even kidnapping Palpatine could be justified if he's the leader of a government attacking star systems that simply want to secede and are defending themselves against Republic/Jedi attacks. Lucas doesn't even bother to show the Jedi questioning why they are taking part in a war with no stated reason for its existence. Gunray was a moron and coward. Dooku could have just told him to shut up he probably would have done it, or he could have just had him killed and replaced with another Trade Federation mook if his demands became too irksome. That's the problem with Lucas, his supposed villains like Gunray are completely non-threatening and comical. I get what you are saying. Yes, Sidious had taken over the galaxy even without the war, but it is clear that from his part in TESB that he considered even one Jedi to be a serious threat to him, so he needed some way to get rid of all of them. Secondly, I want to say you are correct. Most of the stuff I said is either exposition on my part or it came out in later canon material. While that is all well and good, that does not help the main product, the movies themselves. Most of that stuff was not pointedly stated in the movies and they are worse for it. As far as Dooku and Nute Gunray goes, he was still publicly playing the part of joint leader of the people. Kind of hard to play the benevolent leader when you kill potential allies that annoy you. He still played up the generous leader of the people right up until the lightsabre duels at the end. The Clone Wars also showed that he continued to use that public persona when dealing with non-military individuals in the Separatist Alliance. |
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oj32
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Post by oj32 on Jan 2, 2017 21:28:56 GMT -5
Did anyone else notice how dramatically different James Earl Jones voice is in 2016 vs 1977? Really wish they would have manipulated Jones' voice to make him sound closer to his 1977 self. Perhaps not, but it fits with the recent Vader voice-work that Jones has done (mainly on Rebels). I would be reluctant to manipulate his voice acting in order to make it match the 1977 movie. That tends to rob something from the performance. I think that for Tarkin they simply had the voice actor (was it the same as the guy who was the stand-in? They sound somewhat similar to begin with) to an impression of Cushing as Tarkin, rather than try to manipulate a performance in any way. Considering Rogue One ends moments before A New Hope begins, shouldn't the voice be the same? |
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Jan 3, 2017 0:45:40 GMT -5
I like making lists, so:
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Rogue One
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Return of the Jedi
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack of the Clones
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 3, 2017 2:46:47 GMT -5
Perhaps not, but it fits with the recent Vader voice-work that Jones has done (mainly on Rebels). I would be reluctant to manipulate his voice acting in order to make it match the 1977 movie. That tends to rob something from the performance. I think that for Tarkin they simply had the voice actor (was it the same as the guy who was the stand-in? They sound somewhat similar to begin with) to an impression of Cushing as Tarkin, rather than try to manipulate a performance in any way. Considering Rogue One ends moments before A New Hope begins, shouldn't the voice be the same? Again, what do you lose altering his current voice work? I'd rather leave it as is than rob the performance of something for continuity's sake, especially since it isn't that different to most people's ears. |
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SmashTV
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Post by SmashTV on Jan 3, 2017 14:58:08 GMT -5
Seen it. Loved it.
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