Backstage news on Breeze's main roster push

[trollrogue]

Jan 16, 2016 23:05:56 GMT -5 xCompackx said:

Jan 15, 2016 18:29:46 GMT -5 @kn said:

Zigggler's a midcarder and yet he's won multiple titles and he still hasn't reached that ceiling. Little to people know, Ziggler has a Hall of Fame career. For all the crap he gets from people if you compare his career to others of the past, he's done damn well without ever winning the WWE Championship. Ziggler's career should be the example for anyone who's a midcarder who's gotten some chances and yet doesn't need to be a main eventer. He's a solid hand where you need him. Hell, Kofi as well. Ziggler and Kofi both define this.

The problem is that Breeze didn't even get that according to these reports. It's not about where he'd be and what his potential is, it's about giving the guy a chance.

Dolph Ziggler is kind of a visual representation for what's wrong with WWE, though; he's done so much, yet he's still treated like he doesn't matter. Even when they make him part of big angles (Sting debuting to help Dolph win a match is pretty damn big), it's only a couple of weeks until he's right back in the same spot like nothing happened.

They're constantly doing this with talent. Kofi's a multi-time IC Champion, tag-team champion, and it took New Day for his career to move forward. Kalisto's already a 1-time US Champion and he (technically) lost it the next night. It's crazy how spastic the booking is when they throw championship reigns onto guys like it supplants proper storytelling.

I'd hoped this last year for the MITB match that Kofi was in for him to win due to his New Day main event heel status. And a Freebird of the briefcase which IMHO would've PAID OFF SO MUCH BETTER THAN SHEAMUS's cash-in

So OF COURSE... with all of Kofi's acrobatics throughout Rumble history they finally give him the duke this year... New Day and Social Outcasts could run the night to start a main event Revolution. Show the Divas how the midcard does it!! /fantasy

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jan 15, 2016 16:23:56 GMT -5 trollrogue said:

Jan 15, 2016 15:55:51 GMT -5 Dr. T is an alien said:

His point was that if someone competent had a budget like that they would have taken a huge share of the WWE's audience from them.

Yeah but the second point (that seemingly bears repeating) is that if it were so easy to be better than WWE's product any idiot would be able to do it. Turner couldn't. TNA couldn't. Let's not downplay the success of McMahon here-- it takes actual good ideas and knowing what you're doing for him to stand alone as an industry leader today.

A lot of the ideas in this thread are good, but at the end of the day it's easier said than implemented. NXT works but not nearly on as grand a stage as the greater WWE brand.

Turner was putting on a much more successful product than WWE at one point, and had a long streak of unbroken ratings wins because of that fact. It was only when competition forced Vince to light a fire under his ass that he started listening to other people and stopped resting on the laurels of having "won". Only when he took the word of someone more in touch with the era did he find success and manage to come back, and even then his victory had just as much to do with WCW's internal problems and their own directions to try and fight back making them implode once their main corporate supporters were replaced with other suits.

I've said this before; Vince knew what people wanted in the '80s, knew who to listen to in the '90s, and once he won decided he knew best in the '00s. His victories aren't to be downplayed, but they also shouldn't be excuses to justify his actions. He is an industry leader today only because when he was able to give people what they wanted, he managed to do so with such aggression--and, as anyone will say, resources and good fortune--that he shut down every other game in town. Then, when another big competitor showed up, did it again. The Vince McMahon of 2016 is not the brilliant promoter of 1986. If he still had it, then WWE wouldn't be on the decline.

[trollrogue]

Competition (and controversy) creates cash, but still being the marketshare leader of a declining industry is still profit-- the company seems to do best when they perform under fire if this decline becomes unmanageable.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jan 17, 2016 2:09:09 GMT -5 trollrogue said:

Competition (and controversy) creates cash, but still being the marketshare leader of a declining industry is still profit-- the company seems to do best when they perform under fire if this decline becomes unmanageable.

But we're not talking about profit, we're talking about the issues we have with the product being put out and how they generally seem to lead back to the person you're claiming must be doing something right. The idea of "at least they're king even as wrestling is declining" is absurd; no company in the world should be in this stagnant a holding pattern and do this little to try and affect any kind of change as they lose millions of viewers. If they're content with being the king of a trash heap that's slowly sinking, then that would honestly be the worst part of all.

[Stu]

I'm a little drunk, but are we still discussing Breeze?

[Sicho100]

Jan 17, 2016 2:31:45 GMT -5 Stu said:

I'm a little drunk, but are we still discussing Breeze?

The M Night Shyamalan twist at the end? We never were talking about Breeze.

[trollrogue]

Jan 17, 2016 2:24:07 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jan 17, 2016 2:09:09 GMT -5 trollrogue said:

Competition (and controversy) creates cash, but still being the marketshare leader of a declining industry is still profit-- the company seems to do best when they perform under fire if this decline becomes unmanageable.

But we're not talking about profit, we're talking about the issues we have with the product being put out and how they generally seem to lead back to the person you're claiming must be doing something right. The idea of "at least they're king even as wrestling is declining" is absurd; no company in the world should be in this stagnant a holding pattern and do this little to try and affect any kind of change as they lose millions of viewers. If they're content with being the king of a trash heap that's slowly sinking, then that would honestly be the worst part of all.

You're being needlessly dramatic. And yes, unless you have anything aside from emotionally-laden words as an argument standing the test of time over WCW, TNA, the UFC ppvs putting pressure on WWE's marketshare, and popular indy federations around the world the WWE remains the best in terms of profit, scale of business, and (arguably) talent.

Even though you claim Vince McMahon has no worries about being "king of a trash heap that's slowly sinking" (I can not roll my eyes any harder over that cartoonish description, by the way) this very thread proves that the NXT experiment is a success. Tyler Breeze would have been fired a long time ago had it not been for Vince's forward-thinking and putting NXT in Orlando at Full Sail next to the multi-million-dollar Performance Center. These three facts alone completely obliterate your entire claim that vince is content with losing millions of viewers-- he's obviously invested significant sums of money into the WWE Network, creating stars of tomorrow, and entincing indy feds to send over talent like Kenta, Jushin Liger, Asuka, and the NJPW stars being courted AS WE SPEAK. I really don't see how anyone can question McMahon's success and clear understanding of how to run an empire when he's been doing it for decades, and continues to innovate even today.

But go ahead and continue blaming global warming and world wars on Vince, if it helps you sleep at night! Just so you know, as long as the WWE is still making a profit for Vince, that by definition is a 'Successful Business Model'. You can say whatever you want about his tactics or strategy, but saying he's 'unsuccessful' means you're wrong.

[Andrew is Good]

Poor Tyler Breeze. So talented, so wasted. I almost feel they should put him with the social outcasts and change his gimmick completely.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jan 18, 2016 11:41:40 GMT -5 trollrogue said:

Jan 17, 2016 2:24:07 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

But we're not talking about profit, we're talking about the issues we have with the product being put out and how they generally seem to lead back to the person you're claiming must be doing something right. The idea of "at least they're king even as wrestling is declining" is absurd; no company in the world should be in this stagnant a holding pattern and do this little to try and affect any kind of change as they lose millions of viewers. If they're content with being the king of a trash heap that's slowly sinking, then that would honestly be the worst part of all.

You're being needlessly dramatic. And yes, unless you have anything aside from emotionally-laden words as an argument standing the test of time over WCW, TNA, the UFC ppvs putting pressure on WWE's marketshare, and popular indy federations around the world the WWE remains the best in terms of profit, scale of business, and (arguably) talent.

Even though you claim Vince McMahon has no worries about being "king of a trash heap that's slowly sinking" (I can not roll my eyes any harder over that cartoonish description, by the way) this very thread proves that the NXT experiment is a success. Tyler Breeze would have been fired a long time ago had it not been for Vince's forward-thinking and putting NXT in Orlando at Full Sail next to the multi-million-dollar Performance Center. These three facts alone completely obliterate your entire claim that vince is content with losing millions of viewers-- he's obviously invested significant sums of money into the WWE Network, creating stars of tomorrow, and entincing indy feds to send over talent like Kenta, Jushin Liger, Asuka, and the NJPW stars being courted AS WE SPEAK. I really don't see how anyone can question McMahon's success and clear understanding of how to run an empire when he's been doing it for decades, and continues to innovate even today.

But go ahead and continue blaming global warming and world wars on Vince, if it helps you sleep at night! Just so you know, as long as the WWE is still making a profit for Vince, that by definition is a 'Successful Business Model'. You can say whatever you want about his tactics or strategy, but saying he's 'unsuccessful' means you're wrong.

WWE is an entertainment product. While the goal of any company is to get its product as out there as possible, with entertainment specifically, that's incredibly vital. With its audience on the clear decline I fail to see how that isn't stagnation or a problem; if you fail to bring in new customers as you lose the old ones, your business will decline and you'll eventually be worn down thin to a small enough audience that some severe downscaling will be in order. If he's not content with losing the viewers and wants to bring in new ones, then at which point does the fact he's not bringing in a new surge of attention lead to him maybe deciding to go with something else?

You're also missing my point; Vince won the war when he either had a vision for a creative product that was in line with what the culture wanted, or when he listened to people who did. Everything after WCW isn't competition to Vince not because of Vince's ability to put out a better product, but because he is so far ahead of these newer small-scale startups that their goal is really just to find their own niche rather than to compete (or at least should be, in TNA's case). It's like saying that every time Walmart comes into a city and all the locally owned businesses have to shut down because they can't compete with those prices, it's just down to mom and pop being bad at business. His vision for the product is one that has lost millions of viewers over the span of a few years.

The idea that you're crediting Vince with NXT is really just the cherry on top of this all, as if it isn't clearly Triple H's baby and his main project. Liger was brought in for a one-off NXT match, and Asuka is reportedly meant to be a talent only down in NXT, where Vince is 100% hands off and, while reportedly enjoys the shows, it's all on Triple H to actually get things going. All Vince did was say "sure" to his son-in-law. They're not "enticing" other companies to "send over" talent, they're grabbing them from them. This whole sentiment you're talking about is so baffling. My entire point is that Vince McMahon is out of touch and other people have a better sense now for what would work and you are actually giving all of my proof of that to Vince McMahon when he has no role in it.

But sure, no, call me dramatic and then accuse me of blaming the world's woes on Vince McMahon, that makes hella sense. But it took a whole year of mediocre television for Roman Reigns to finally become the hot babyface Vince was trying to make, entirely because of how Vince wanted to get him over. At what point does the fact that he "beat" WCW stop being an excuse for the fact his creative ideas in 2016 aren't actually that good?

[trollrogue]

I called you dramatic and quoted you comparing Vince to a "King of a Trash Heap" (your words not mine). I left the readers to draw their own conclusions on my OPINION

Vince owns the WWE Network. Guess what the only place to see NXT is? Yep.

Any other questions?

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2016 14:26:21 GMT -5 trollrogue said:

I called you dramatic and quoted you comparing Vince to a "King of a Trash Heap" (your words not mine). I left the readers to draw their own conclusions on my OPINION

Vince owns the WWE Network. Guess what the only place to see NXT is? Yep.

Any other questions?

That's like saying since Rupert Murdoch owns Fox, he's a comedic genius because he has multiple award winning sitcoms broadcast on them.

[Andy Martin]

Sooooo are we still talking about that mid-carder? Trevor whatshisname?

[________ has left the building]

Jan 18, 2016 16:40:14 GMT -5 Andy Martin said:

Sooooo are we still talking about that mid-carder? Trevor whatshisname?

Just shows how much people care about Tyler Breezy. At least people aren't still comparing him to HBK.

[Big Poppa Pumpkin]

Tyler Breeze is basically Shawn Michaels

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Jan 18, 2016 12:15:48 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

Poor Tyler Breeze. So talented, so wasted. I almost feel they should put him with the social outcasts and change his gimmick completely.

Breeze may be getting a bad hand, but he's above the Social Outcasts.

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2016 18:27:49 GMT -5 Big Poppa Pumpkin said:

Tyler Breeze is basically Shawn Michaels

Without the push and the "god this man is the greatest wrestler in like ever dude" attached to him. Oh, also without the historical "this guy is just as important as all the greats buddy" thing as well. He's basically like an IC Champion HBK before that crap came into play.

[Grand Papillon "The Banker"]

I think the fact that Breeze is using the Unprettier is a rib because he looks a bit like Christian...and we all know what Vince thinks of Christians face.

About Ziggler, he's had a very similar run as Chris Jerichos original run before his return and serious run. He's won the world title a couple of times and had runs that went virtually no where. He's had a lot of midcard title runs and can be a credible main eventer when needed. Both were more over than they were actually utilized. both great in the ring as well. You could do a hell of a lot worse

[Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast]

Breeze's main roster run summarized in one gif



Pushed up only to fall ungracefully.

[Deleted]

So are the Scooby Doo tights a call for them to search for his missing career?

[Deleted]

Michael Cole sure put him over tonight. "And ladies and gentlemen this is :Tyler Breeze:, :standing there:, :existing:."