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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jan 22, 2016 18:19:11 GMT -5
Cleared to wrestle does not necessarily mean able to endure the punishing WWE schedule. That's why you ask for the HBK deal. |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 22, 2016 18:19:59 GMT -5
Cleared to wrestle does not necessarily mean able to endure the punishing WWE schedule. That's why you ask for the HBK deal. Which is the best way to use Bryan. Big tours and TV only. Make seeing him special. Shawn's retirement left a big hole that Bryan is now at a point that he could fill. He's younger than HBK was when this became his thing, but yeah, that's how I'd make use of him at this point. |
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Tony Montana
Mike the Goon
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Post by Tony Montana on Jan 22, 2016 18:23:01 GMT -5
He'd probably get cleared by any doctor except the one getting paid by McMahon.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 22, 2016 18:25:23 GMT -5
Unfair that from JR since the wrestler himself wants to return and has been cleared by two doctors. JR said how some fans are saying "He wants to wrestle! He should just sign a waiver so that WWE can't get in trouble if he gets hurt again" pretty much implying that they don't care about Bryan's health at all and are being selfish in the matter. Bryan may be cleared to wrestle, that doesn't mean that he's completely healthy and able to compete as long as he wants. If he gets hurt again it could put him into Edge territory of "You can never ever wrestle again" and why risk putting his body through that? |
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 22, 2016 18:47:07 GMT -5
Unfair that from JR since the wrestler himself wants to return and has been cleared by two doctors. JR said how some fans are saying "He wants to wrestle! He should just sign a waiver so that WWE can't get in trouble if he gets hurt again" pretty much implying that they don't care about Bryan's health at all and are being selfish in the matter. Bryan may be cleared to wrestle, that doesn't mean that he's completely healthy and able to compete as long as he wants. If he gets hurt again it could put him into Edge territory of "You can never ever wrestle again" and why risk putting his body through that? It doesn't imply that. The suggestion of a waiver would be for WWE's benefit, to clear themselves of any responsibility if, in the worst case scenario, something happens. Any member of the roster can get hurt. It's a risk they all take. Ask Rollins, Kidd, etc... |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 22, 2016 18:50:34 GMT -5
Unfair that from JR since the wrestler himself wants to return and has been cleared by two doctors. JR said how some fans are saying "He wants to wrestle! He should just sign a waiver so that WWE can't get in trouble if he gets hurt again" pretty much implying that they don't care about Bryan's health at all and are being selfish in the matter. Bryan may be cleared to wrestle, that doesn't mean that he's completely healthy and able to compete as long as he wants. If he gets hurt again it could put him into Edge territory of "You can never ever wrestle again" and why risk putting his body through that? Because highly trained physicians who are specialists in the field with more knowledge of the body than you say he can and he's made it very clear that he wants to. People on Bryan's side are going based on the evidence presented before them and the things the man himself is saying. People against him are going, "NOPE! IT'S ALL OVER CAUSE I KNOW WHAT BRYAN NEEDS MORE THAN HE DOES!" Seriously, unless people can start providing some medical licensees around here, they've got to cut it out with the determining that Bryan is made of glass and should be wrapped in pillows for the rest of his life. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 22, 2016 18:56:40 GMT -5
WWE could also try using some common sense and going for a middle ground between no wrestling at all, and a torturous schedule. How about only letting him wrestle ever so often? On major PPV's for example, like Lesnar. Don't have him wrestling meaningless matches on RAW and Smackdown. Don't require him to work house shows. Cut out headbutts (diving or otherwise) and diving through the ropes (overused anyway). Let him rest and recover. I'm sure Vince can be flexible enough to alter his business philosophy of working guys to the bone.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 22, 2016 19:04:35 GMT -5
WWE could also try using some common sense and going for a middle ground between no wrestling at all, and a torturous schedule. How about only letting him wrestle ever so often? On major PPV's for example, like Lesnar. Don't have him wrestling meaningless matches on RAW and Smackdown. Don't require him to work house shows. Cut out headbutts (diving or otherwise) and diving through the ropes (overused anyway). Let him rest and recover. I'm sure Vince can be flexible enough to alter his business philosophy of working guys to the bone. That's what a lot of people are saying, the Shawn Michaels deal would alleviate that stress on Bryan, who's honestly earned that with his popularity and the way he worked himself for the company in 2013. |
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Jan 22, 2016 20:03:46 GMT -5
JR said how some fans are saying "He wants to wrestle! He should just sign a waiver so that WWE can't get in trouble if he gets hurt again" pretty much implying that they don't care about Bryan's health at all and are being selfish in the matter. Bryan may be cleared to wrestle, that doesn't mean that he's completely healthy and able to compete as long as he wants. If he gets hurt again it could put him into Edge territory of "You can never ever wrestle again" and why risk putting his body through that? Because highly trained physicians who are specialists in the field with more knowledge of the body than you say he can and he's made it very clear that he wants to. People on Bryan's side are going based on the evidence presented before them and the things the man himself is saying. People against him are going, "NOPE! IT'S ALL OVER CAUSE I KNOW WHAT BRYAN NEEDS MORE THAN HE DOES!" Seriously, unless people can start providing some medical licensees around here, they've got to cut it out with the determining that Bryan is made of glass and should be wrapped in pillows for the rest of his life. I just don't see the incentive for the WWE to not bring him back if they thought he was ready to go. Like they need star power and at the worse he's better than Jericho to have as a semi main event act. Occam's razor states the WWE is being safer in this case because they have a better idea of the situation. And we don't even know how many doctor's he's actually asked do we? If somebody can provide a link that will be great but he can have easily asked 5 doctors and only 2 gave him the go ahead. Or he only asked 2 and got 2, I don't know but it's something to consider. But like I said, I have little reason to believe Vince and the medical staff are sabotaging Bryan's return over petty reasons like not to make him a star again. |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 22, 2016 20:12:44 GMT -5
Because highly trained physicians who are specialists in the field with more knowledge of the body than you say he can and he's made it very clear that he wants to. People on Bryan's side are going based on the evidence presented before them and the things the man himself is saying. People against him are going, "NOPE! IT'S ALL OVER CAUSE I KNOW WHAT BRYAN NEEDS MORE THAN HE DOES!" Seriously, unless people can start providing some medical licensees around here, they've got to cut it out with the determining that Bryan is made of glass and should be wrapped in pillows for the rest of his life. I just don't see the incentive for the WWE to not bring him back if they thought he was ready to go. Like they need star power and at the worse he's better than Jericho to have as a semi main event act. Occam's razor states the WWE is being safer in this case because they have a better idea of the situation. And we don't even know how many doctor's he's actually asked do we? If somebody can provide a link that will be great but he can have easily asked 5 doctors and only 2 gave him the go ahead. Or he only asked 2 and got 2, I don't know but it's something to consider. But like I said, I have little reason to believe Vince and the medical staff are sabotaging Bryan's return over petty reasons like not to make him a star again. My issue is not with Vince McMahon "not wanting Bryan cleared". That's a ridiculous notion. My issue is the people on this forum that seem to magically become licensed, practicing Doctors when they see an opportunity to make anti-Bryan posts. |
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Jan 22, 2016 20:12:50 GMT -5
So basically they're just terrified of bad PR if something goes wrong. Kinda what I figured would be the case.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 22, 2016 20:31:55 GMT -5
My issue is not with Vince McMahon "not wanting Bryan cleared". That's a ridiculous notion. My issue is the people on this forum that seem to magically become licensed, practicing Doctors when they see an opportunity to make anti-Bryan posts. As the people who want him to live a long, healthy life outside of wrestling can't possibly be fans of his. Look at the condition Bret Hart is on these days, look at the problems Mick Foley has, people we grew up adoring have been wrecked by head trauma and we don't want to see someone else end up in the same condition for our enjoyment. We may not be qualified doctors, but we do know Bryan has a track record of lying to them to get cleared when he shouldn't be so we and the WWE can't be blamed for not trusting him on that front. |
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Post by Diamond Cutter Out of Nowhere! on Jan 22, 2016 20:33:14 GMT -5
As much as I'd love to see him back, I bet they won't let him because of those concussions.
Hell, they unceremoniously ended Christian's career because of concussions. It was the right call, but still. After Benoit they aren't taking any chances with head injuries.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 22, 2016 20:35:22 GMT -5
My issue is not with Vince McMahon "not wanting Bryan cleared". That's a ridiculous notion. My issue is the people on this forum that seem to magically become licensed, practicing Doctors when they see an opportunity to make anti-Bryan posts. As the people who want him to live a long, healthy life outside of wrestling can't possibly be fans of his. Look at the condition Bret Hart is on these days, look at the problems Mick Foley has, people we grew up adoring have been wrecked by head trauma and we don't want to see someone else end up in the same condition for our enjoyment. We may not be qualified doctors, but we do know Bryan has a track record of lying to them to get cleared when he shouldn't be so we and the WWE can't be blamed for not trusting him on that front. Yes you can. Because plenty of contrary evidence is being provided. And the obnoxious, "BRYAN MUST RETIRE, THE END" is simply being posted for the sake of riling up Bryan fans. He wants to do it, doctors say he can, who are you to make demands that he not? |
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Post by Richard on Jan 22, 2016 20:39:55 GMT -5
As the people who want him to live a long, healthy life outside of wrestling can't possibly be fans of his. Look at the condition Bret Hart is on these days, look at the problems Mick Foley has, people we grew up adoring have been wrecked by head trauma and we don't want to see someone else end up in the same condition for our enjoyment. We may not be qualified doctors, but we do know Bryan has a track record of lying to them to get cleared when he shouldn't be so we and the WWE can't be blamed for not trusting him on that front. Yes you can. Because plenty of contrary evidence is being provided. And the obnoxious, "BRYAN MUST RETIRE, THE END" is simply being posted for the sake of riling up Bryan fans. He wants to do it, doctors say he can, who are you to make demands that he not? Fans of his listing to the other doctors saying no he shouldn't? Fans that hear that and see what has happened to the other that have ignored that warning and not wanting that to happen to someone we like/love and respect? Just as you can say "let him wrestle, the doctors said so" they can say "retire for the sake of your health, the doctor has said so". |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 22, 2016 20:50:19 GMT -5
Yes you can. Because plenty of contrary evidence is being provided. And the obnoxious, "BRYAN MUST RETIRE, THE END" is simply being posted for the sake of riling up Bryan fans. He wants to do it, doctors say he can, who are you to make demands that he not? Fans of his listing to the other doctors saying no he shouldn't? Fans that hear that and see what has happened to the other that have ignored that warning and not wanting that to happen to someone we like/love and respect? Just as you can say "let him wrestle, the doctors said so" they can say "retire for the sake of your health, the doctor has said so". And that may be true, but with the information we've been provided, two specialists have said he's good. The other, who's decisions have been called into question in the past, says no. The evidence on one side outweighs the other, and on top of that, Bryan's intentions have been made clear. People making decisions for him is uncalled for. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 22, 2016 20:56:56 GMT -5
Yes you can. Because plenty of contrary evidence is being provided. And the obnoxious, "BRYAN MUST RETIRE, THE END" is simply being posted for the sake of riling up Bryan fans. He wants to do it, doctors say he can, who are you to make demands that he not? If we're playing that game, who are you to question people's motivations? Did you go through the posting records of everyone who said they feel he should retire to check if they're Bryan haters just doing it just to hate? Pro wrestling attracts people who put the business, put entertaining ahead of their own health, people who will do whatever it takes to get cleared by one doctor or other when they shouldn't, working through injury until they start to lose feeling in limbs or get one more hit to end their career. We may not know best, but we've seen wrestler after wrestler keep going until they can't and regretting it because of the long term health issues, I don't want Bryan to end up on the long list of guys like Bret, Orndorff, Edge, Anderson, Foley and countless others who ended up wrecked by wrestling... And I won't even touch the issue of those who've died under 60. I'm sorry if our genuine, if unqualified, concern upsets you so, but it's not going to go away any time soon, you're going to have to deal with it. |
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Post by Richard on Jan 22, 2016 20:58:24 GMT -5
Fans of his listing to the other doctors saying no he shouldn't? Fans that hear that and see what has happened to the other that have ignored that warning and not wanting that to happen to someone we like/love and respect? Just as you can say "let him wrestle, the doctors said so" they can say "retire for the sake of your health, the doctor has said so". And that may be true, but with the information we've been provided, two specialists have said he's good. The other, who's decisions have been called into question in the past, says no. The evidence on one side outweighs the other, and on top of that, Bryan's intentions have been made clear. People making decisions for him is uncalled for. You trust Bryan and his doctors, others trust WWE and theirs. Both sides are fine but if you cannot see why people do not trust a man who has admitted to lying about his medical history, his concussion history and his health so he can keep wrestling, and do not want him to end up like so many others, then there is no point in this. This is not making decisions for someone, it legit fear and concern for someone people like. |
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 22, 2016 22:23:28 GMT -5
First off, multiple doctors can agree on something and still be wrong, but if multiple high-level doctors are saying something and one doctor is saying the opposite, it's more likely that the one doctor who disagrees is wrong than the multiple doctors. Even assuming that Joseph Maroon is the only high-level neurologist who isn't a quack in all of the United States and Maroon's the only person who got it right for Daniel Bryan's head, I'd choose to agree on this, if not for the fact that your CTE argument is a bad example. WWE themselves know about CTE, but it has been known in football circles (and put in this thread as well beforehand) that Dr. Maroon himself is controversial as the Steelers' doctor for not believing that CTE even exists. Believing someone who claims CTE doesn't exist is somehow using the same argument of CTE to keep Daniel Bryan held out of the ring for concussion issues does not pass the smell test. With these claims- in all likeliness, Maroon is more likely to be the one who got it wrong here on his second opinion (and now, from an independent neurologist giving a second opinion to that) or a belief that Bryan's flags are there...and I only say it's the most likely case because I don't even want to assume the worst case of "The WWE openly told Maroon to never clear Daniel Bryan to wrestle no matter how good his tests are, solely to force the fans to accept Roman Reigns as the next big star" is anything more than conspiracy theory. Or it just means that they have different opinions and are looking at different things because medicine isn't an exact sceince and you can't predict what's going to happen with any performer in the future. They've been forced to become aware of concussions just as every other high level entertainment organization has forced to become, want to be conservative because of several high profile cases of head trauma related incidents, and are wary clearing someone with a significant history of traumatic brain injury and a longer history of doing moves that causes trauma to his head to return to a job where traumatic brain injury is a common occupational hazard due to both the nature of the job and the schedule. The fact that oher people think he's strong enough to wrestle doesn't make him wrong. Clearing someone to return doesn't mean they're not more prone to reinjury, it just means their previous injuries don't seem to put them in significantly more danger at the time. And I'm confused, when did Dr. Maroon say he doesn't believe CTE exists? I read the study that he was the lead author on that is so often criticized, and it doesn't say that at all. What they did was a literature review trying to determine if the prevalence of it was being overstated due a lack of research, multiple studies citing the same subjects, and a lack of longitudinal studies, and it's an article that defines and presents the confirmed cases of CTE at the time. When you see articles like this bury the caveat that every one of hte players tested believed they had it already, it warrants more research into the actual prevalence of a condition (Or, in layman's terms, you can't say 95% of all hot dogs have pig dongs in them if you only tested hot dogs that came from a factory where you knew they processed pig dongs). Whether their conclusions are correct are up for debate, but I hadn't heard him stating that he just doesn't believe it exists. Even if he did though, to write CTE off as an excuse would be very irresponsible. Clearing someone to return to the ring doesn't mean the red flags don't exist, it means that the issues they were being brought in to check means he's probably safe from the major traumatic risks. Considering CTE comes from numerous blows over time, that's not something that being cleared is going to rule out. It's not about the other doctors being quacks, it's about the doctor who works often with WWE disagreeing with about the risks associated with him returning to the ring. It's possible, and hopeful, that Bryan will never get another concussion or serious injury and be fine, but the other extreme is possible as well for someone with his history (and especially his moveset). I work in the medical field (not as an MD, but on the rehab side with a license and advanced degree and have had patients with traumatic brain injuries), people are way oversimplifying this as "two is more than one, that means they're right." In reality, they can both even be right, that his neck is fine but that his history of concussions is still troublesome. Unless any of us were party to the conversation or the records, we can't really say anything about this other than the third hand information from the news reports. To downplay those concerns of future dangers as conspiracy theories about Roman Reigns is just ridiculous to me. It all just sounds like some fans want an excuse to discredit the opinion of a highly trained neurologist because they want to believe there's no danger to him when there really is. Bryan has a history of head trauma, that makes him more likely to suffer from future traumatic brain injuries (which is what concussions are) and more likely to suffer from the ill effects of them, which are continually being researched. To even bring Vince and Roman into it is just mind-boggling to me. |
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Post by Gremlin on Jan 22, 2016 22:44:01 GMT -5
After the recent photo of his fancy braid, he has also been cleared by The Doctor of Style, Slick.
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