mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,891
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Oct 27, 2016 10:22:12 GMT -5
OK, so what has this got to do with wrestling?
We can't say the words "Donald" and "Trump" together without getting threads locked, why has this now went on for six pages talking about slavery and racism and Miley Cyrus and God knows what else. Not because of the photo Mandy took, because we've already established we don't know the full intent or meaning, but because she dared to have her hair in braids in a photo.
This has got nothing to do with wrestling. Way tamer threads have been locked on this board.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Oct 27, 2016 10:25:55 GMT -5
I knew this board was a bad place to talk about race when you still had fans saying what Hulk Hogan said wasn't that bad.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 10:28:28 GMT -5
OK, so what has this got to do with wrestling? We can't say the words "Donald" and "Trump" together without getting threads locked, why has this now went on for six pages talking about slavery and racism and Miley Cyrus and God knows what else. Not because of the photo Mandy took, because we've already established we don't know the full intent or meaning, but because she dared to have her hair in braids in a photo. This has got nothing to do with wrestling. Way tamer threads have been locked on this board. Well, I mean...people did wonder why Black people dragged her about it and people did provide explanations as to why that'd be an understandable reaction. Granted, that's a lot more patience than I would've shown, but that's why I generally didn't say anything. Besides, didn't we just have a small version of this discussion involving Sawyer Fulton's Struggle Braids? |
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,891
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Oct 27, 2016 10:28:56 GMT -5
I knew this board was a bad place to talk about race when you still had fans saying what Hulk Hogan said wasn't that bad. Sorry, but that's a ridiculous sweeping statement to make. I've been on this board for years and never seen one long term member say anything even close to that. There are plenty of racist asshole wrestling fans. I've yet to see one on here. |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 27, 2016 10:29:16 GMT -5
OK, so what has this got to do with wrestling? We can't say the words "Donald" and "Trump" together without getting threads locked, why has this now went on for six pages talking about slavery and racism and Miley Cyrus and God knows what else. Not because of the photo Mandy took, because we've already established we don't know the full intent or meaning, but because she dared to have her hair in braids in a photo. This has got nothing to do with wrestling. Way tamer threads have been locked on this board. Sometimes it's healthy for us to have these discussions. |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 27, 2016 10:30:31 GMT -5
I knew this board was a bad place to talk about race when you still had fans saying what Hulk Hogan said wasn't that bad. Sorry, but that's a ridiculous sweeping statement to make. I've been on this board for years and never seen one long term member say anything even close to that. There are plenty of racist asshole wrestling fans. I've yet to see one on here. Oh, we've banned TONS of people for having bigoted and/or shitty opinions from here. And yes, sadly a number of members here have expressed that very same sentiment. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 27, 2016 10:31:39 GMT -5
Sorry, but that's a ridiculous sweeping statement to make. I've been on this board for years and never seen one long term member say anything even close to that. There are plenty of racist asshole wrestling fans. I've yet to see one on here. Oh, we've banned TONS of people for having bigoted and/or shitty opinions from here. Yep. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. |
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Post by Session Moth is over on Oct 27, 2016 10:32:05 GMT -5
OK, so what has this got to do with wrestling? We can't say the words "Donald" and "Trump" together without getting threads locked, why has this now went on for six pages talking about slavery and racism and Miley Cyrus and God knows what else. Not because of the photo Mandy took, because we've already established we don't know the full intent or meaning, but because she dared to have her hair in braids in a photo. This has got nothing to do with wrestling. Way tamer threads have been locked on this board. In fairness the mods (so far) have made the right decision on leaving this thread open. What was originally a wrestling thread on a subject of what may or may not be racism has opened up into quite a civilised debate on an important subject matter. No one should be expected to know or understand everything but the only way different people will learn is through talking, asking questions and attempting to see all sides in a thread like this. |
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,891
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Oct 27, 2016 10:32:19 GMT -5
OK, so what has this got to do with wrestling? We can't say the words "Donald" and "Trump" together without getting threads locked, why has this now went on for six pages talking about slavery and racism and Miley Cyrus and God knows what else. Not because of the photo Mandy took, because we've already established we don't know the full intent or meaning, but because she dared to have her hair in braids in a photo. This has got nothing to do with wrestling. Way tamer threads have been locked on this board. Sometimes it's healthy for us to have these discussions. But who gets to make those decisions? Someone started a thread asking if Trump will be removed from the HoF and it got locked straight away, and that IS a genuine question based on the WWE, but it wasn't healthy to have that conversation, which almost certainly wouldn't have been as heated as this one. |
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,891
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Oct 27, 2016 10:34:14 GMT -5
Sorry, but that's a ridiculous sweeping statement to make. I've been on this board for years and never seen one long term member say anything even close to that. There are plenty of racist asshole wrestling fans. I've yet to see one on here. Oh, we've banned TONS of people for having bigoted and/or shitty opinions from here. And yes, sadly a number of members here have expressed that very same sentiment. Really? Wow. I must have missed them. Shame. I love a good banning. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 27, 2016 10:34:30 GMT -5
Donald Trump is inherently a political figure as he is currently running for president of the United States of America as a Major Party candidate.
That is why all talk about Trump and Clinton has been locked immediately, as there is no way that it will not get to them as a political figure.
Especially, with less than 2 weeks away from the election.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 27, 2016 10:36:26 GMT -5
Trump is running for President of the United States, making him a highly visible political figure, so I imagine that the mods wanted to nip that in the bud before it got super-political.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 27, 2016 10:37:54 GMT -5
Sometimes it's healthy for us to have these discussions. But who gets to make those decisions? Someone started a thread asking if Trump will be removed from the HoF and it got locked straight away, and that IS a genuine question based on the WWE, but it wasn't healthy to have that conversation, which almost certainly wouldn't have been as heated as this one. You're equating a topic that has an explicit political subtext, as it involves a current candidate for the presidency in the US, with a thread that deals with a racial issue; while race and politics are certainly intertwined, we have often permitted discussions of ethnic/racial issues as long as they avoid explicit political discussions, as well as avoiding personal attacks and any bigotry. If things get out of hand, we, the mods, will handle it. |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 27, 2016 10:43:59 GMT -5
Oh, we've banned TONS of people for having bigoted and/or shitty opinions from here. And yes, sadly a number of members here have expressed that very same sentiment. Really? Wow. I must have missed them. Shame. I love a good banning. You did indeed miss them. The reason our board even does have such a good rep is because we've had to weed out so many jerks over the years. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 10:49:11 GMT -5
I hope she rocks those braids as long as she wants. Hell, I hope any white person who wants dreadlocks goes ahead and gets them.
Also, is there a vetting process in terms of someone understanding a culture? Theoretically, is there any way for her to gain understanding about black struggles and all that and STILL be able to walk around with her hair? Or is the idea that once she understands, she'll take out her braids?
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,522
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Post by Dub H on Oct 27, 2016 10:52:04 GMT -5
The only thing I have to add to discussion is something I saw a japanese say in a video " While america tries to separate cultures into groups that should be separate , we try to absorb some aspects of different cultures." " we wouldnt mind if you wear as kimono or if you modify a kimono , we would be happy you enjoy our culture" I think that is a much healthier point of view
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Post by jackswagz on Oct 27, 2016 11:01:46 GMT -5
This whole thing reminds me of the controversy and huge public outcry from Scottish people over Roddy Piper wearing a kilt. Oh, wait. We didn't care. Funny that. Roddy Piper is of Scottish descent so this is a really poor example. Rose is of Irish descent, braids are commonplace thoughout Irish history |
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 27, 2016 11:07:52 GMT -5
The only thing I have to add to discussion is something I saw a japanese say in a video " While america tries to separate cultures into groups that should be separate , we try to absorb some aspects of different cultures." " we wouldnt mind if you wear as kimono or if you modify a kimono , we would be happy you enjoy our culture" I think that is a much healthier point of view I think our problem here is that we certainly DO take in aspects of other cultures (think food, clothing, language/accents, etc.), but that we have a very, very difficult history that involves slavery, apartheid, and frankly many of those issues are still plaguing us as we speak, e.g. how public schools in America are currently even more segregated by ethnicity than they were fifty years ago, and the continuous wealth gap that exists between white Americans and black or Latino Americans. There's nothing that says a white person, say, can't enjoy soul food, or listen to rap, any of those things. However, one hopes there is an understanding that the culture you're partaking in is one that has been and, it must be noted, continues to be marginalized, ignored by the mainstream, or outright oppressed by many of our social institutions; as such, realize that a lot of that culture stems from the pain that stemmed from said oppression, and that there is a difference between enjoying that culture and essentially claiming it as your own when you have not experienced or suffered from that painful history. The Japanese example works better if we're discussing people coming into the US and partaking in white American culture (whatever that is, as the definition of "white" in the western world has been constantly fluid and often more a marker of economic success than any real ethnic distinction, for example the way that the Irish were not considered "white" in the 19th century, the Italians not being considered "white" until the mid 20th century, etc.). That's somebody coming in and looking to partake in the dominant culture, which has not been shaped quite as heavily by factors like slavery or apartheid. To co-opt black culture in America is more akin to visiting China and then co-opting, say, Tibetan culture. |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 27, 2016 11:09:39 GMT -5
I hope she rocks those braids as long as she wants. Hell, I hope any white person who wants dreadlocks goes ahead and gets them. Also, is there a vetting process in terms of someone understanding a culture? Theoretically, is there any way for her to gain understanding about black struggles and all that and STILL be able to walk around with her hair? Or is the idea that once she understands, she'll take out her braids? She can sport a rainbow mohawk for all I care. But if I were Mandy and by chance I found this thread, I would read it, think about it hard, and hopefully try to emerge from the situation at least a bit wiser. It's not like anyone's calling for her to be tarred and feathered. |
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,522
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Post by Dub H on Oct 27, 2016 11:16:31 GMT -5
The only thing I have to add to discussion is something I saw a japanese say in a video " While america tries to separate cultures into groups that should be separate , we try to absorb some aspects of different cultures." " we wouldnt mind if you wear as kimono or if you modify a kimono , we would be happy you enjoy our culture" I think that is a much healthier point of view I think our problem here is that we certainly DO take in aspects of other cultures (think food, clothing, language/accents, etc.), but that we have a very, very difficult history that involves slavery, apartheid, and frankly many of those issues are still plaguing us as we speak, e.g. how public schools in America are currently even more segregated by ethnicity than they were fifty years ago, and the continuous wealth gap that exists between white Americans and black or Latino Americans. There's nothing that says a white person, say, can't enjoy soul food, or listen to rap, any of those things. However, one hopes there is an understanding that the culture you're partaking in is one that has been and, it must be noted, continues to be marginalized, ignored by the mainstream, or outright oppressed by many of our social institutions; as such, realize that a lot of that culture stems from the pain that stemmed from said oppression, and that there is a difference between enjoying that culture and essentially claiming it as your own when you have not experienced or suffered from that painful history. The Japanese example works better if we're discussing people coming into the US and partaking in white American culture (whatever that is, as the definition of "white" in the western world has been constantly fluid and often more a marker of economic success than any real ethnic distinction, for example the way that the Irish were not considered "white" in the 19th century, the Italians not being considered "white" until the mid 20th century, etc.). That's somebody coming in and looking to partake in the dominant culture, which has not been shaped quite as heavily by factors like slavery or apartheid. To co-opt black culture in America is more akin to visiting China and then co-opting, say, Tibetan culture. I don't know how much this applies , but part of the japanese language , big if it and even a lot of the culinary is from the chinese culture , which they don't have the most friendly relation historically speaking. But I get the point and I know it is not as black and white as I said , but I think it still applies , it is the best way to look past differences , I am a big believer in that. I feel like trying to say X belongs to X is in the end separatist and only helps to worsen the problem. I understand the intentions are not bad but it does create a more aggressive and toxic culture. In a random note I would say apple pie , pastry of some sortd ,popular clothing styles such as tuxedos could be considered white culture since it came from europe no? But because europe was such an oppressive colonization , it really did take over around the world some aspects |
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