Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,522
|
Post by Dub H on Oct 27, 2016 11:24:49 GMT -5
Also want to.disclaim that I'm from Brazil , while not america we have some similar racial issues. and a lot of our culture is based from all around the world. So I do love the topic of culture.
Thought some people in the activist side on the internet here in Brazil really like to take usa issues as the ones one Brazil
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 11:31:15 GMT -5
I think our problem here is that we certainly DO take in aspects of other cultures (think food, clothing, language/accents, etc.), but that we have a very, very difficult history that involves slavery, apartheid, and frankly many of those issues are still plaguing us as we speak, e.g. how public schools in America are currently even more segregated by ethnicity than they were fifty years ago, and the continuous wealth gap that exists between white Americans and black or Latino Americans. There's nothing that says a white person, say, can't enjoy soul food, or listen to rap, any of those things. However, one hopes there is an understanding that the culture you're partaking in is one that has been and, it must be noted, continues to be marginalized, ignored by the mainstream, or outright oppressed by many of our social institutions; as such, realize that a lot of that culture stems from the pain that stemmed from said oppression, and that there is a difference between enjoying that culture and essentially claiming it as your own when you have not experienced or suffered from that painful history. The Japanese example works better if we're discussing people coming into the US and partaking in white American culture (whatever that is, as the definition of "white" in the western world has been constantly fluid and often more a marker of economic success than any real ethnic distinction, for example the way that the Irish were not considered "white" in the 19th century, the Italians not being considered "white" until the mid 20th century, etc.). That's somebody coming in and looking to partake in the dominant culture, which has not been shaped quite as heavily by factors like slavery or apartheid. To co-opt black culture in America is more akin to visiting China and then co-opting, say, Tibetan culture. I don't know how much this applies , but part of the japanese language , big if it and even a lot of the culinary is from the chinese culture , which they don't have the most friendly relation historically speaking. But I get the point and I know it is not as black and white as I said , but I think it still applies , it is the best way to look past differences , I am a big believer in that. I feel like trying to say X belongs to X is in the end separatist and only helps to worsen the problem. I understand the intentions are not bad but it does create a more aggressive and toxic culture. In a random note I would say apple pie , pastry of some sortd ,popular clothing styles such as tuxedos could be considered white culture since it came from europe no? But because europe was such an oppressive colonization , it really did take over around the world some aspects European =/= "White." There's a very distinct reason why the classification of "White" was even made, but just because something is say...German, I wouldn't say it's "White." It's just that; German. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 11:37:43 GMT -5
I hope she rocks those braids as long as she wants. Hell, I hope any white person who wants dreadlocks goes ahead and gets them. Also, is there a vetting process in terms of someone understanding a culture? Theoretically, is there any way for her to gain understanding about black struggles and all that and STILL be able to walk around with her hair? Or is the idea that once she understands, she'll take out her braids? She can sport a rainbow mohawk for all I care. But if I were Mandy and by chance I found this thread, I would read it, think about it hard, and hopefully try to emerge from the situation at least a bit wiser. It's not like anyone's calling for her to be tarred and feathered. But I'm asking if her taking out the braids is the end goal. |
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,522
|
Post by Dub H on Oct 27, 2016 11:39:32 GMT -5
I don't know how much this applies , but part of the japanese language , big if it and even a lot of the culinary is from the chinese culture , which they don't have the most friendly relation historically speaking. But I get the point and I know it is not as black and white as I said , but I think it still applies , it is the best way to look past differences , I am a big believer in that. I feel like trying to say X belongs to X is in the end separatist and only helps to worsen the problem. I understand the intentions are not bad but it does create a more aggressive and toxic culture. In a random note I would say apple pie , pastry of some sortd ,popular clothing styles such as tuxedos could be considered white culture since it came from europe no? But because europe was such an oppressive colonization , it really did take over around the world some aspects European =/= "White." There's a very distinct reason why the classification of "White" was even made, but just because something is say...German, I wouldn't say it's "White." It's just that; German. Then does it even exist or is it white american that is being said? Because I think white american culture is all over with customs ,foods and even some clothings |
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,925 
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 27, 2016 12:03:42 GMT -5
I hope she rocks those braids as long as she wants. Hell, I hope any white person who wants dreadlocks goes ahead and gets them. Also, is there a vetting process in terms of someone understanding a culture? Theoretically, is there any way for her to gain understanding about black struggles and all that and STILL be able to walk around with her hair? Or is the idea that once she understands, she'll take out her braids? She can sport a rainbow mohawk for all I care. But if I were Mandy and by chance I found this thread, I would read it, think about it hard, and hopefully try to emerge from the situation at least a bit wiser. It's not like anyone's calling for her to be tarred and feathered. I'm not sure about that. Once the "racist" charge sticks (regardless of what ethnicity/culture you're perceived to have been offensive to), you really can't ever shake it off. Because there's really no way to prove definitively that you aren't once people believe that you are (and if someone DOES earn society-at-large's forgiveness, it's usually more because they were an otherwise charismatic person than any other factor). And things tend to snowball from there. I suppose this is more a generic sentiment than one specifically about Ms. Saccomanno, but I do think that there's kind of a sentiment that when somebody has been offensive, you do see a "Take their job! Take their kids! Take their house!" sort of mob viciousness emerge over the internet quite often. |
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 27, 2016 12:07:12 GMT -5
She can sport a rainbow mohawk for all I care. But if I were Mandy and by chance I found this thread, I would read it, think about it hard, and hopefully try to emerge from the situation at least a bit wiser. It's not like anyone's calling for her to be tarred and feathered. I'm not sure about that. Once the "racist" charge sticks (regardless of what ethnicity/culture you're perceived to have been offensive to), you really can't ever shake it off. Because there's really no way to prove definitively that you aren't once people believe that you are (and if someone DOES earn society-at-large's forgiveness, it's usually more because they were an otherwise charismatic person than any other factor). And things tend to snowball from there. I suppose this is more a generic sentiment than one specifically about Ms. Saccomanno, but I do think that there's kind of a sentiment that when somebody has been offensive, you do see a "Take their job! Take their kids! Take their house!" sort of mob viciousness emerge over the internet quite often. Often when there's smoke, there's fire. If you mean something like say, Hogan as an example, I'm still done with that fool. |
|
Wailord Man
Trap-Jaw
Float like a Wailord sting like a Beedrill
Posts: 257 
|
Post by Wailord Man on Oct 27, 2016 12:15:11 GMT -5
Ok let me see if I got this,
1) Mandy is a racist for taking a snap of someone's hair on a plane and saying wtf
2) She is stealing African American culture by having braids
3) Pointless arguing whether or not she is stealing African American culture
4) No one knows if the person with the hair she took a snap of is even African American or not
This thread is strange, annoying and all round douchie
So I'll be taking my leave of this thread
|
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Oct 27, 2016 12:27:30 GMT -5
Really? Wow. I must have missed them. Shame. I love a good banning. You did indeed miss them. The reason our board even does have such a good rep is because we've had to weed out so many jerks over the years. I think there's also an unwritten Damnatio Memoriae on banned members, which may be why we don't notice the banned ones. |
|
|
|
Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Oct 27, 2016 12:30:44 GMT -5
People can call me sheltered and uneducated all they want, but it's threads like this that remind me why I live in a tiny ass bum f*** town with my head buried in the sand. If I didn't frequent these forums, the fact that it's a no-no for a white chick to have braids never would have even crossed my radar.
|
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 27, 2016 12:33:37 GMT -5
You did indeed miss them. The reason our board even does have such a good rep is because we've had to weed out so many jerks over the years. I think there's also an unwritten Damnatio Memoriae on banned members, which may be why we don't notice the banned ones. not really unwritten 15. RESPECTING OTHER MEMBERS: Everyone here is an equal from the mods to posters to the people who contribute to the site. It doesn't matter if you have been here for 1 year or 1 day, have 1 post or 1 million. We are here to have fun and talk about the various subjects we enjoy and want this place to be a haven for all. With that said, we ask you to have respect for your fellow posters. Do not harass members via the PM system. Do not inquire about a member's status or the reason they they are not here, they are not here to defend themselves and speculating on why is not fair to them. Please avoid giving the staff a hard time when you disagree with a decision they have made about moderating, they're busy people and are here to post the same as you are. If you have an issue with a decision they have made and it cannot be worked out with the moderator in question in a civil manner via PMs, ask for someone to contact you in the AskAMod thread which is stickied at the top of the Off Topic board. |
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Oct 27, 2016 12:34:02 GMT -5
I also wanna agree with one of the comments earlier that her doing the dutch braid may have been to keep her hair controlled during a training day. I used to do a french plait for wrestling school for the same reason, and I know Dahlia Black from Progress does the Dutch braids when she wrestles.
|
|
Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,421
|
Post by Abdullah on Oct 27, 2016 12:48:07 GMT -5
Ok let me see if I got this, 1) Mandy is a racist for taking a snap of someone's hair on a plane and saying wtf 2) She is stealing African American culture by having braids 3) Pointless arguing whether or not she is stealing African American culture 4) No one knows if the person with the hair she took a snap of is even African American or not This thread is strange, annoying and all round douchie So I'll be taking my leave of this thread I've gotten more out of this thread than the dozens of iterations of 'RAW bad, Smackdown good.' Looking at the page count, I figured Mandy would be drowned in a sea of mockery but it's been far more useful and enlightening than that. |
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 27, 2016 12:54:22 GMT -5
Ok let me see if I got this, 1) Mandy is a racist for taking a snap of someone's hair on a plane and saying wtf 2) She is stealing African American culture by having braids 3) Pointless arguing whether or not she is stealing African American culture 4) No one knows if the person with the hair she took a snap of is even African American or not This thread is strange, annoying and all round douchie So I'll be taking my leave of this thread I've gotten more out of this thread than the dozens of iterations of 'RAW bad, Smackdown good.' Looking at the page count, I figured Mandy would be drowned in a sea of mockery but it's been far more useful and enlightening than that. Sometimes you just gotta drop the anvil. Stay woke, FAN. |
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Oct 27, 2016 13:00:25 GMT -5
The first lesson should be that if you are in WWE, you can't be on social media. It's bad enough these days that morons seem to post every brainless thought they have online, but then you also get people posting stuff online that undermine their characters. Even Stephanie is guilty of that. If WWE does allow social media accounts, they should be run in-character by WWE staffers who should post kayfabe messages which support ongoing storylines and characters. Because the 95% of wrestlers who don't act like assholes online totally deserve that. That 95% would be unaffected by the policy I outlined. Their characters and storylines would be advanced, and the wrestlers themselves wouldn't have to even post it themselves. The first lesson should be that if you are in WWE, you can't be on social media. It's bad enough these days that morons seem to post every brainless thought they have online, but then you also get people posting stuff online that undermine their characters. Even Stephanie is guilty of that. If WWE does allow social media accounts, they should be run in-character by WWE staffers who should post kayfabe messages which support ongoing storylines and characters. Kayfabe is dead. It should stay that way. Wrestling is meaningless without it. Without kayfabe, what are they fighting for? Fun? They should try marketing their programming that way. Cole: Ladies and gentlemen please subscribe to our network where you can see AJ styles face Dean Ambrose in an Inferno Match simply because we've scripted them to do so! |
|
LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
|
Post by LuchaBella on Oct 27, 2016 13:20:10 GMT -5
As a black person, it makes you feel pretty shitty. Your culture doesn't matter until white people says it matters. As a Latin woman, I 100% agree with this. I won't even get started on what I want to say in this thread, but I am not surprised at some of the responses. Its disappointing. But that's everywhere. |
|
thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,736
|
Post by thecrusherwi on Oct 27, 2016 13:38:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure about that. Once the "racist" charge sticks (regardless of what ethnicity/culture you're perceived to have been offensive to), you really can't ever shake it off. Because there's really no way to prove definitively that you aren't once people believe that you are (and if someone DOES earn society-at-large's forgiveness, it's usually more because they were an otherwise charismatic person than any other factor). And things tend to snowball from there. I suppose this is more a generic sentiment than one specifically about Ms. Saccomanno, but I do think that there's kind of a sentiment that when somebody has been offensive, you do see a "Take their job! Take their kids! Take their house!" sort of mob viciousness emerge over the internet quite often. Often when there's smoke, there's fire. If you mean something like say, Hogan as an example, I'm still done with that fool. "Where there's smoke, there's fire" is a dangerous attitude to take in any walk of life. This is nothing like Hogan. He stated his position explicitly. She made a non-specific comment about a person we can't even identify. Where there's smoke, there's usually a fire but you should find out if there really is one before you call the fire department and yell for everyone to evacuate. |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Oct 27, 2016 13:44:57 GMT -5
I think our problem here is that we certainly DO take in aspects of other cultures (think food, clothing, language/accents, etc.), but that we have a very, very difficult history that involves slavery, apartheid, and frankly many of those issues are still plaguing us as we speak, e.g. how public schools in America are currently even more segregated by ethnicity than they were fifty years ago, and the continuous wealth gap that exists between white Americans and black or Latino Americans. There's nothing that says a white person, say, can't enjoy soul food, or listen to rap, any of those things. However, one hopes there is an understanding that the culture you're partaking in is one that has been and, it must be noted, continues to be marginalized, ignored by the mainstream, or outright oppressed by many of our social institutions; as such, realize that a lot of that culture stems from the pain that stemmed from said oppression, and that there is a difference between enjoying that culture and essentially claiming it as your own when you have not experienced or suffered from that painful history. The Japanese example works better if we're discussing people coming into the US and partaking in white American culture (whatever that is, as the definition of "white" in the western world has been constantly fluid and often more a marker of economic success than any real ethnic distinction, for example the way that the Irish were not considered "white" in the 19th century, the Italians not being considered "white" until the mid 20th century, etc.). That's somebody coming in and looking to partake in the dominant culture, which has not been shaped quite as heavily by factors like slavery or apartheid. To co-opt black culture in America is more akin to visiting China and then co-opting, say, Tibetan culture. I don't know how much this applies , but part of the japanese language , big if it and even a lot of the culinary is from the chinese culture , which they don't have the most friendly relation historically speaking. But I get the point and I know it is not as black and white as I said , but I think it still applies , it is the best way to look past differences , I am a big believer in that. I feel like trying to say X belongs to X is in the end separatist and only helps to worsen the problem. I understand the intentions are not bad but it does create a more aggressive and toxic culture. In a random note I would say apple pie , pastry of some sortd ,popular clothing styles such as tuxedos could be considered white culture since it came from europe no? But because europe was such an oppressive colonization , it really did take over around the world some aspects With China and Japan I think some of that is a common ancestry (how the Japanese islands were likely originally part of the Chinese mainland); the history between the two has obviously been dreadful at many points, but I think what sets the Western experience apart was the codifying and the legalizing of race as a concept - seeing that you're from Brazil, yeah, the racial history of South America is definitely a fraught one, as well, and answers are rarely easy. Encomienda and the limpieza de sangre shaped much of Central and South America in ways similar to how Jim Crow and the Indian wars shaped North America, and sadly we're still reaping what our ancestors sewed in these regards. Regarding some other posts so far, I do think most people would agree that the best solution to most issues like this is for different cultures to interact more and become more friendly in the process, but sadly the world doesn't work that easily. Again, the wounds of institutional racism are deep and in many cases they've barely been treated - in such situations, rather than turn away, rather than judge people for reacting, I think the better thing to do is to ask questions. If people are angry about this Instagram pic and what have you, why not ask why they're angry? Not in a patronizing way, either, but in an honest way that seeks better understanding. There's a lot none of us can speak for, experiences that none of us have exposure to or understanding of, so why not seek out answers? In a case like this, I wouldn't blame any African American for saying "I'm not in the mood to explain it to you", given how repetitive and annoying that must get over time, but the answers are out there, and one doesn't have to agree with the answers to at least arrive at an understanding about where they're coming from. Anything's better than burying our heads and pretending such feelings don't exist at all. |
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Oct 27, 2016 14:48:53 GMT -5
I will say that the woman's hair in question gives me more of a Cammy vibe than anything. Her weird comments about unobstructive hair were really unnecessary, but it's not like she's wearing cornrows or dreadlocks.
As for the China/Japan thing, I think Japan gets more of its origins from Korea, specifically (the ethnic Yamato Japanese anyway; the indigenous Ainu people likely have a different ethnic origin from Siberia), though Japanese kanji are characters taken directly from Chinese characters.
Though it is important to note that ethnic enclaves can develop entirely different cultural attitudes based on their status in their new home. Again using the Japan example, while a lot of Japanese nationals might not have a problem with tourists and other gaijin wearing kimonos, Japanese Americans might think their culture is being appropriated and mocked by the majority white population.
|
|
Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
|
Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Oct 27, 2016 15:01:21 GMT -5
I was about to go off on half the people in this thread until Magic stepped in. Thanks, Magic.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hurbster on Oct 27, 2016 15:02:23 GMT -5
Reads the thread......lol
|
|
