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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 5, 2018 13:26:50 GMT -5
The Bliss feud absolutely murdered her. Very hard to come back with Bliss saying she was a loser and then soundly beating her several times. Speaking of Bliss, and kinda related but Sasha is close to Bayley territory too, thanks to Alexa Sasha was wrecked by the Charlotte feud and the fact that she was always a terrible face. The entire Boss gimmick is heel schtick.. Also one bad feud doesn't completely ruin someone permanently... the fact that throughout that feud instead of being the optimist underdog like she was in NXT they made her act like a literal child. NO ONE is going to get behind an adult acting like a 4 year old, if they put Bayley in that gimmick against anyone it would have crashed and burned.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 5, 2018 13:31:46 GMT -5
The Bliss feud absolutely murdered her. Very hard to come back with Bliss saying she was a loser and then soundly beating her several times. Speaking of Bliss, and kinda related but Sasha is close to Bayley territory too, thanks to Alexa Sasha was wrecked by the Charlotte feud and the fact that she was always a terrible face. The entire Boss gimmick is heel schtick.. Also one bad feud doesn't completely ruin someone permanently... the fact that throughout that feud instead of being the optimist underdog like she was in NXT they made her act like a literal child. NO ONE is going to get behind an adult acting like a 4 year old, if they put Bayley in that gimmick against anyone it would have crashed and burned. Yeah, as much as people figured there was no way people could ruin Bayley, in NXT she had something approaching nuance as far as just being a positive, upbeat person who just happened to be kind of awkward. She wasn't actually just an adult child in NXT, but Vince doesn't watch NXT and I guess a lot of the writers didn't either, so they saw her at face value took no care to learn what her act was and drove it in a direction that tanked the whole thing before she could get anywhere with it.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 5, 2018 13:57:15 GMT -5
The Bliss feud absolutely murdered her. Very hard to come back with Bliss saying she was a loser and then soundly beating her several times. Speaking of Bliss, and kinda related but Sasha is close to Bayley territory too, thanks to Alexa Sasha was wrecked by the Charlotte feud and the fact that she was always a terrible face. The entire Boss gimmick is heel schtick.. Also one bad feud doesn't completely ruin someone permanently... the fact that throughout that feud instead of being the optimist underdog like she was in NXT they made her act like a literal child. NO ONE is going to get behind an adult acting like a 4 year old, if they put Bayley in that gimmick against anyone it would have crashed and burned. I don't love the tweak in her gimmick, she'd at least have a sense of credibility had they not gone the route of Alexa repeatedly beating her like something out of a 1980's 'Superstars' squash
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 5, 2018 14:13:06 GMT -5
Sasha was wrecked by the Charlotte feud and the fact that she was always a terrible face. The entire Boss gimmick is heel schtick.. Also one bad feud doesn't completely ruin someone permanently... the fact that throughout that feud instead of being the optimist underdog like she was in NXT they made her act like a literal child. NO ONE is going to get behind an adult acting like a 4 year old, if they put Bayley in that gimmick against anyone it would have crashed and burned. I don't love the tweak in her gimmick, she'd at least have a sense of credibility had they not gone the route of Alexa repeatedly beating her like something out of a 1980's 'Superstars' squash Alexa didn't squash her. The problem again was shit like Bayley "not wanting to hurt people" or an entire match being based around will Bayley do what it takes to win the match at Extreme Rules and the answer being unequivocally no. that's not on Bliss... that's on the stupid character they gave Bayley that no one can get behind. Bayley in NXT would have grabbed the stick and pummeled Alexa with it. Not to mention they already kinda ruined the oh golly gee I'd never do something like that was ruined because they already had Bayley win the title in the first place by cheating.
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Post by psychokiller on Jan 5, 2018 14:15:50 GMT -5
This is exactly why I don’t want any top stars in other promotions to go to WWE. The only exception in recent years that WWE has gotten behind that made a career somewhere else or is really talented is Styles. But he’s the best wrestler in the world currently though. They have done nothing with Balor, Bayley, or Nakamura. Joe has been used alright but if he stays on Raw he’ll be nothing more than a guy that stays in the mid card most of the time or loses to Reigns. It’s beyond annoying to keep seeing all these talented stars to be used like shit.
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Post by eJm on Jan 5, 2018 14:16:16 GMT -5
I don't love the tweak in her gimmick, she'd at least have a sense of credibility had they not gone the route of Alexa repeatedly beating her like something out of a 1980's 'Superstars' squash Alexa didn't squash her. The problem again was shit like Bayley "not wanting to hurt people" or an entire match being based around will Bayley do what it takes to win the match at Extreme Rules and the answer being unequivocally no. that's not on Bliss... that's on the stupid character they gave Bayley that no one can get behind. Bayley in NXT would have grabbed the stick and pummeled Alexa with it. Not to mention they already kinda ruined the oh golly gee I'd never do something like that was ruined because they already had Bayley win the title in the first place by cheating. Hell, Bayley on the Edge and Christian Show pummelled Tommy Dreamer with a cane for a gag. She’d have eaten WWE Bayley alive.
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Post by Tenshigure on Jan 5, 2018 14:22:58 GMT -5
And for all the talk of that, the stuff where Callis goes "If I were to own a wrestling promotion" got a chuckle from me. I had to stifle a laugh when he was talking about Will Ospreay in that context, aka Mr. "Other than Kenny Omega".
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 5, 2018 14:31:26 GMT -5
Cole gushes over Elias too. Is Elias supposed to be loved? That's something I don't get on commentary, either. Like, I get that you're supposed to hype up talent but when you're bouncing between gushing and calling them despicable every few seconds, it's hard to get invested in characters. It wasn't like that 5 years ago, never mind 10. Commentary is damaged. Sure, there's bits and pieces but it's damaged. When Gorilla and Jesse called it, they kept it grounded. Yes, the WWF was colourful but they still had purposes. Jesse would challenge the faces actions, Gorilla would decry the heels, they offered a wrestler's point of view from 2 generational outlooks that added to the contest. Heenan, for all the yuks, had moments where he actually called it. Example: he joked about Bret's family but he always put over the Hitman's wrestling ablity. Now? Cole acts passive aggressive with unfunny shit and talks over pushing a narrative and takes away from the product. Booker, while wild, has energy but gets shut down. For some reason. And Graves, they're hell bent on making him JBL despite his potential. And for what reason?
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AlexaBliss4Life
Unicron
Alexa Bliss is the Queen the wrestling world needs!
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 5, 2018 14:53:21 GMT -5
Hard to buy they've given up on her when she literally got a new shirt last week. I aint buying this ish.
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Post by eJm on Jan 5, 2018 15:11:10 GMT -5
Hard to buy they've given up on her when she literally got a new shirt last week. I aint buying this ish. Curt Hawkins just got a new t-shirt. Outside of his match with Braun, he hasn't been on TV for literally months.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,483
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 5, 2018 15:14:17 GMT -5
That's something I don't get on commentary, either. Like, I get that you're supposed to hype up talent but when you're bouncing between gushing and calling them despicable every few seconds, it's hard to get invested in characters. It wasn't like that 5 years ago, never mind 10. Commentary is damaged. Sure, there's bits and pieces but it's damaged. When Gorilla and Jesse called it, they kept it grounded. Yes, the WWF was colourful but they still had purposes. Jesse would challenge the faces actions, Gorilla would decry the heels, they offered a wrestler's point of view from 2 generational outlooks that added to the contest. Heenan, for all the yuks, had moments where he actually called it. Example: he joked about Bret's family but he always put over the Hitman's wrestling ablity. Now? Cole acts passive aggressive with unfunny shit and talks over pushing a narrative and takes away from the product. Booker, while wild, has energy but gets shut down. For some reason. And Graves, they're hell bent on making him JBL despite his potential. And for what reason? Hell, go back to heel JBL circa 2006 and you have an example of a clear heel announcer who put over faces when it was called for.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 15:37:23 GMT -5
Now’s the time for a major financial backer to start a wrestling promotion. Really good wrestlers are underutilized at best and outright undercut at worst. The talent is there, they just need a backer to put Vince in the shithouse.
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AlexaBliss4Life
Unicron
Alexa Bliss is the Queen the wrestling world needs!
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 5, 2018 15:43:05 GMT -5
Hard to buy they've given up on her when she literally got a new shirt last week. I aint buying this ish. Curt Hawkins just got a new t-shirt. Outside of his match with Braun, he hasn't been on TV for literally months. Comparing Bayley to Hawkins is like apples & oranges bud.
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Post by eJm on Jan 5, 2018 15:48:12 GMT -5
Curt Hawkins just got a new t-shirt. Outside of his match with Braun, he hasn't been on TV for literally months. Comparing Bayley to Hawkins is like apples & oranges bud. Sure but comparing booking to merchandise is the same way most of the time.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 5, 2018 15:54:18 GMT -5
She was doomed as soon as her gimmick went from woman who appeals to young children to woman who legitimately believes she is one.
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AlexaBliss4Life
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Alexa Bliss is the Queen the wrestling world needs!
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 5, 2018 16:00:04 GMT -5
Comparing Bayley to Hawkins is like apples & oranges bud. Sure but comparing booking to merchandise is the same way most of the time. If she gets tossed instantly in the Womens Rumble, then I'll concede that there's merit to them giving up, but not yet.
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Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Jan 5, 2018 16:03:34 GMT -5
[me, on my friends' wholesome minecraft server]
Listen, girls, I think we need to give up on this whole villager thing. Ever since we stomped on his garden, the farmer just hasn't been putting in work. I've given up on him.
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shark on Jan 5, 2018 16:14:12 GMT -5
I still am trying to really put my finger on the it: I can't decide if the WWE directly booked Bayley dead, or their terrible never ending SuperAlexa push killed Bayley dead as a side effect SuperAlexa. Granted Bayley's booking up until then wasn't great, but she was still over big and was champion and beat Charlotte for the title and beat her on PPV which hadn't happened before. So while her booking wasn't perfect, things were still looking up. SuperAlexa derailed that completely.
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Post by Tenshigure on Jan 5, 2018 16:30:01 GMT -5
I'd argue that WWE isn't failing in the booking as much as they are damaging the perceptions and careers of everyone standing in the way of their "chosen ones":
- For Jinder to look credible, they had to squash Nakamura and (to a lesser extent) Orton.
- For Alexa to look dominant, they destroyed Bayley, Sasha, and every other female star on the Raw roster.
- For Kane to look like a credible against Braun, they had to feed Finn Balor to the Demon.
- For Roman to 'look strong' in his upcoming umpteenth coronation, they had to have Samoa Joe and Braun Strowman lose to Lesnar to a single F5.
The list goes on and on. That's not to say they've done Bayley wrong because that's certainly true; I just feel like there is more damage being done to the rest of the roster as a result of very shoddy booking practices than it's been in a long time.
Sidenote: this whole thing is speculation from a few comments from Meltzer, so it's still one of those "grain of salt" situations either way.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 5, 2018 16:37:01 GMT -5
[me, on my friends' wholesome minecraft server] Listen, girls, I think we need to give up on this whole villager thing. Ever since we stomped on his garden, the farmer just hasn't been putting in work. I've given up on him. Are you implying Bayley needs a Minecraft gimmick to reach the next level? Because that sounds like the worst conceivable television in the best conceivable way.
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