mattperiolat
King Koopa
Thank you, Brodie... for everything.
Posts: 11,447
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Post by mattperiolat on Jul 11, 2018 22:06:54 GMT -5
I can see where both sides are coming from. I understand Martha not wanting to do business with wrestling, in general, but at the same time, the HOF is a night to honor legends, and fans truly enjoyed Owen. I see where Bret's coming from on this, too. They don't have to put him in video games, or make figures of him, but, while the tribute show was a way for talent to honor him, the HOF is a way for EVERYONE, to honor him. I can't disagree with Martha, though, because I can't imagine the pain she went through. I can’t judge Martha, since I’m not in her shoes. But it’s also known she HATED that Owen was a wrestler. She wanted him to quit and be a firefighter and has stated more than once that he was going to wrestle for another year, then retire. Impossible to know if that’s true since we can’t ask Owen, but who knows? So, even if the fall didn’t happen, it can be argued that Martha never supported what Owen did. His death fed the fire and justified her view. The people getting hurt now are the Hart family, since there are apparently still separation issues and the fans, since Martha has chosen to die on the hill of making sure WWE doesn’t promote Owen or exploit. I see her fear of exploitation, but we are seeing an entire generation of fans who are missing who Owen was. And there are people close to Owen who really can’t even talk about what he meant to the business and to them. Watch Jarrett and Henry from this year’s Hall to see what I mean. There is no resolution here since Martha will not be moved. So... we have to respect, no matter what we think. We will mourn and honor as best we can unless and until circumstances change. Those of us who saw Owen will never forget the talent and spirit he showed. Those who worked with him will tell stories of his ribs for time immemorial. For my part, I just remember a poem whenever I think of Owen: Sagest in the council was he, kindest in the Hall: Sure we never won a battle – ’twas Owen won them all. Soft as woman’s was your voice, O’Neill, bright was your eye. Oh! why did you leave us, Owen? Why did you die Your troubles are all over, you’re at rest with God on high: But we’re slaves, and we’re orphans, Owen! – why did you die? We’re sheep without a shepherd, when the snow shuts out the sky – Oh! why did you leave us, Owen? Why did you die? |
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The Heenan Family
Unicron
I'm a legend in this sport. If you don't believe me, ask me.
Posts: 2,573
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Post by The Heenan Family on Jul 11, 2018 22:12:51 GMT -5
Martha Hart's response to BretIn Dynamite’s case, he’s someone who has said he doesn’t want to go in, due to issues with Vince. It would honestly take a miracle the level of Bruno’s agreement to get a living induction for him. I'm not entirely sure he's on Vince's "next-in-line" list for inductions, either. DK's induction would bring on questions from the rogues' gallery about Benoit. After all, Benoit was Billington's direct protege(e) and much was made of it in the aftermath of the murder-suicide. Billington's own domestic issues are well-known as well. Strangely enough, after DK's stroke in 2013, Vince had Michael Cole send Billington well wishes on RAW. Of course then in 2015, DK joined that small concussion lawsuit that preceded the big one in 2016.
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Post by romanstylesiii on Jul 11, 2018 22:15:53 GMT -5
Just once I would like Bret Hart to tell me what he really thinks  |
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Jul 11, 2018 22:40:51 GMT -5
On a tangential note, Bret continues to stir up random animosity between himself and The E... for...?
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jul 12, 2018 0:31:04 GMT -5
Well, there's a smart, eloquent lady. More power to her. |
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Post by timelimitdraw on Jul 12, 2018 0:55:02 GMT -5
If it were the Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame in Texas or the Tragos/Thesz Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame in Iowa, I don't know whether or not she would have the same reluctance, since they're nonprofit halls whose inductees are voted on by historians and veterans of the business. (Though to be honest, even some of the inductees who are still living don't bother showing up for their ceremonies.)
Although it's nice to see WWE acknowledge the past, the WWE Hall of Fame isn't a nonprofit organization. Hell, it doesn't even have a location. It's a commercial event designed to generate revenue for the company. Any settlement she received doesn't make up for their kids losing their father because of a needlessly foolish stunt gone awry. Whether she liked the business or not before his death, why would she give them permission?
With all due respect to Bret, Owen's legacy hasn't been erased. His absence from the WWE Hall of Fame doesn't mean he's being ignored. His matches and promos will live on for decades on WWE Home Video releases and the WWE Network.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jul 12, 2018 1:56:44 GMT -5
On a tangential note, Bret continues to stir up random animosity between himself and The E... for...? It's just Bret being Bret. He'll always be my favourite wrestler, but he's only got one way of seeing things and he's quite happy to stir shit up if anybody else doesn't see things his way. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 3:20:28 GMT -5
Bret be all "I've seen people behave selfishly and in my whole life, Martha is somewhere in the top ten, maybe between the 3rd and 5th most selfish acts".
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Post by evilone on Jul 12, 2018 4:03:00 GMT -5
Lady clearly has a self-esteem issues when it comes to wrestling as a career as if it's something to be ashamed of since she has to bring it up for millionth time over and over again. Maybe she would have preferred Owen to be a doctor or a lawyer but there is nothing she can do about it but accept it. Unfortunately we live in a world where being a good person is a perk since we have horrendous amounts of horrible people on this planet but when you rise above it and accept that being a good person is only a foundation for greater things then we come to conclusion Owen has achieved so much more than being a wonderful human being.
For me you can say I'm a good human being that happens to wrestle as a hobby but to say that for Owen is an insult cause Owen was THE WHOLE GOD DAMN WRESTLING. That's like saying Bolt is a good man who just happens to sprint or Tesla was a great human being who just happened to "do science". That's twisting the truth real hard and minimizing the accomplishments.
I'm against Bret saying things like this in public, I can understand that he ran out of options to reason with Martha but still it's not something you do no matter what as it will just distance you even further from Owen's kids. And poor lady Martha really needs to face the big issues, accept it, be better while staring at the elephant in the room and move on in peace instead of spending the rest of her life with head turned around pretending like some things have never happened. No one is denying that WWE used to be/is a horrible place to be in and they are 100% at fault when it comes to Owen's death. On contrary things that Owen has managed to achieved in such ill environment is something that lets you rise up over exploit concerns, self esteem crisis and so on.
I truly wish her and Bret a happy conclusion and reconciliation no matter how it ends.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jul 12, 2018 4:46:56 GMT -5
On a tangential note, Bret continues to stir up random animosity between himself and The E... for...? Bret Hart is the sanest living member of his generation of the Hart family, which means he's still a little bit out there. Dude has been in complete "give no f***s" mode for years now, and when something is on his mind he says it. |
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jul 12, 2018 7:46:02 GMT -5
How do you pronounce that? "O-Yee Hart"? "O-Jee Hart"?
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Post by edgestar on Jul 12, 2018 8:00:05 GMT -5
How do you pronounce that? "O-Yee Hart"? "O-Jee Hart"? I think it's pronounced like Edge, just with an "O", and not an "E".  |
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jul 12, 2018 8:43:05 GMT -5
How do you pronounce that? "O-Yee Hart"? "O-Jee Hart"? I think it's pronounced like Edge, just with an "O", and not an "E". Thats how Mark Henry said it. |
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 12, 2018 9:40:20 GMT -5
I've always assumed it was pronounced "Ojay" as in "Owen James", but I've never heard it actually said, so I'm sure I'm wrong.
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Post by The Trashman on Jul 12, 2018 11:56:28 GMT -5
I understand her being upset but there is no reason for her to not allow this to happen.
She doesn't have to participate and the kids don't have to if they don't want to.
She is harming his wrestling legacy as each year he becomes less and less remembered.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 12, 2018 12:06:53 GMT -5
I understand her being upset but there is no reason for her to not allow this to happen. She doesn't have to participate and the kids don't have to if they don't want to. She is harming his wrestling legacy as each year he becomes less and less remembered. Eh...."Upset" is a pretty dire understatement for "lost her husband to a senseless stunt he never should have been asked to do". Like I said earlier, I don't entirely agree with Martha's position, but I 100% "get it" that she holds the WWE responsible for Owen's death because...really, they kinda were. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 12:32:18 GMT -5
Lady clearly has a self-esteem issues when it comes to wrestling as a career as if it's something to be ashamed of since she has to bring it up for millionth time over and over again. Maybe she would have preferred Owen to be a doctor or a lawyer but there is nothing she can do about it but accept it. Unfortunately we live in a world where being a good person is a perk since we have horrendous amounts of horrible people on this planet but when you rise above it and accept that being a good person is only a foundation for greater things then we come to conclusion Owen has achieved so much more than being a wonderful human being. For me you can say I'm a good human being that happens to wrestle as a hobby but to say that for Owen is an insult cause Owen was THE WHOLE GOD DAMN WRESTLING. That's like saying Bolt is a good man who just happens to sprint or Tesla was a great human being who just happened to "do science". That's twisting the truth real hard and minimizing the accomplishments. I don't necessarily think what she said was contemptuous of wrestling as much as it was communicating that she's honoring the man and not the wrestler. I don't think it matters if he's a doctor, an actor or whatever his wrestling prowess or legacy doesn't factor into her love for him which is perfectly fine to me. My dad's a truck driver, if something happened to him, his occupation would be a blip on the radar in what she's mourning him for, it's not a knock on the occupation, it's just not always what we remember people for. I don't think it matters if she likes wrestling or not. I see both sides but it's hard for me to go against Martha on this. Accidents happened but the fact is they killed her husband so it would be really tough if I were in her position give WWE permission to profit off of it. I don't really see it as selfish because she has more to gain than there is to lose by allowing WWE to honor him. Not that WWE are completely bad guys here, I'm sure they are genuinely remorseful would like Martha's forgiveness for their mistake, but still, they would like to make some business off of this too. I think if Martha were to agree to let WWE use his image there would have to be some sort of agreement that WWE doesn't make a single dollar off of his name. Though video game sales would make that difficult. As a fan I really don't need to see Owen referenced on WWE. I would be fine with if he was, but I have to tools as it is to remember him quite fondly as it is. Bret is a big legacy guy, it matters a great deal to him to be remembered after he dies. |
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,777 
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Post by nisidhe on Jul 12, 2018 12:46:46 GMT -5
I understand her being upset but there is no reason for her to not allow this to happen. She doesn't have to participate and the kids don't have to if they don't want to. She is harming his wrestling legacy as each year he becomes less and less remembered. I'm sure Martha Hart cares about what a bunch of wrestling fans think concerning her custodianship of her late husband's legacy. /s Owen had his reasons for marrying Martha. I suspect she brought peace and stabgiity into his life after growing up with chaos all around him, not all of it in the Dungeon. It is not for us to question a widow's reasons for not wanting WWE, or the Harts for that matter, to exploit or profit from his memory. Bret may not need what would come from it, but there are enemies of Martha's within the Hart clan who would love nothing more than to make a buck off Owen's memory while flipping the bird to the woman he loved most and with whom he wanted to build a life outside wrestling. Given that dynamic and all the BS she's had to suffer for her decision to keep something of Owen to herself, she's more than justified in telling WWE, the Hart family, and the wrestling community where we can all go and what we can do when we get there. Leave her alone. |
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 32,486
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Post by Perd on Jul 12, 2018 12:52:40 GMT -5
Christmas with the Hart’s must be a real hoot.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 12, 2018 16:49:52 GMT -5
It's not ours to say what his widow and children should do about his legacy. There is nothing preventing Mark Henry and others from renting an auditorium and invite a bunch of wrestlers to tell Owen Hart stories without WWE using it to sell network subscriptions and Hall of Fame tickets. She has never turned her back in wrestling as much as she has the WWE, and that is her perogative, she owes nothing to that company, and as much as we all use WWE as a conduent for pro wrestling, if your spouse died working for a company, I'd don't think you would be so inclined to let it go so they could make a buck.
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